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 Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:42 Post subject: 12 Ways Consoles Are Hurting PC Gaming |
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http://www.maximumpc.com/article/12_ways_consoles_are_hurting_pc_gaming?page=0,0
Delayed/Glitchy Ports
Dumbed-Down Sequels
The Future Isn't Now
Lousy Interfaces/Controls
There Is No Mod
The Great Divide
Auto-Save
Games For Windows
Making Us Hate Our Favorite Developers
Kinecting The Dots
Non-Existent Post-Release Support
Dead-icated Servers
Of course, consoles do not directly hurt PC gaming more than PC piracy does; they are just a piece of hardware. In fact PC & console gaming have co-existed for years before without any trouble.
What hurts PC gaming is that you can't exploit its market as easily as the console market etc.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:47 Post subject: |
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What's hurting PC gaming is capitalism, and the increased importance it's gotten in the industry once they discovered there was actually huge amounts of cash to be found there.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:48 Post subject: |
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Pretty much what I'm saying.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:49 Post subject: |
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Consolitis, let's be honest here mate, what hurts PC gaming most is the expanded gaming audience. The Derps. I'm a firm supporter of capitalism, for good reason, and capitalism basically dictates, that when there's a need, it will be taken care of. The problem is, gamers like you and me don't generate enough need.
People like the ones on that board you linked today, they generate most of the need.
But is it all doom? No, it's not, I think there's still enough of us to warrant some hardcore games, and we shall get them, if not by other means, then thanks to the evolving Indy sector.
And about capitalism, it works best if it is coupled with strong morals/strong culture - we don't have a strong PC gaming culture, which is mostly due to the gaming mags/sites selling out.
If we had proper people reviewing games, and those proper people's reviews were read by millions upon millions, like silly fucking IGN is, then it would be a whole different story.
So basically, two things are to the detriment of PC gaming: derps, and gaming journos.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:50 Post subject: |
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| Raap wrote: | | What's hurting PC gaming is capitalism, and the increased importance it's gotten in the industry once they discovered there was actually huge amounts of cash to be found there. |
Yeah, blame capitalism first, amirite? For everything...
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:51 Post subject: |
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But since capitalism rules over the gaming journalists too, there's no real chance of getting proper reviews from any of the popular ones.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:52 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | Raap wrote: | | What's hurting PC gaming is capitalism, and the increased importance it's gotten in the industry once they discovered there was actually huge amounts of cash to be found there. |
Yeah, blame capitalism first, amirite? For everything... |
Who said anything about blame? It's the people, developers and publishers, that are to blame. Or natural greed, if you want. Capitalism is simply the tool.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 21:54 Post subject: |
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| Raap wrote: | | But since capitalism rules over the gaming journalists too, there's no real chance of getting proper reviews from any of the popular ones. |
No, what rules over gaming journalists is two things: ignorance and corruption, not capitalism. Many people are too quick to blame capitalism for corruption, but that's one of the biggest logical fallacies I have ever read.
These sites, what they do is, they get huge bucks for the advertising space, and it's established on the side (non contractually, non traceably) that the review scores must accompany the advertisements.
That right there is corruption and unprofessionalism, but there's little legal proof of it ever happening.
I know one thing for sure, if I met Jessica Chobot in real life, she'd have a serious chance of being the first woman I ever punched.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:07 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | These sites, what they do is, they get huge bucks for the advertising space, and it's established on the side (non contractually, non traceably) that the review scores must accompany the advertisements. |
I don't think the review scores are the problem.. PC games with relatively high production values get good reviews as well.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/crysis 91%
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/sid-meiers-civilization-v 90%
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/shogun-2-total-war 90%
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty 93%
These are all 90+% scores and are some of the most famous recent PC exclusives I can think of.
CoD: Black Ops, most popular console game with huge marketing budget, is lower rated than all of the PC exclusives I listed.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:08 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | If we had proper people reviewing games, and those proper people's reviews were read by millions upon millions, like silly fucking IGN is, then it would be a whole different story. |
This is indeed a huge problem. IGN, Gamespot, Giantbomb etc.. especially Gamespot even if they did labeled Demon Souls as their goty i still think they're clueless when it comes to apreciate/play rpgs, as with Giantbomb when it comes to apreciate/play rts-es and generally with every big gaming site when it comes to apreciate anything else more complex than CoD.
ASUS TUF B550M-PLUS | RYZEN 5600x | RTX 3060TI | 16GB DDR4
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:10 Post subject: |
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Compared to 12 years ago, the platforms are too similar nowadays. Twelve years ago console games and pc games were vastly different, today due to how powerful the console hardware has become, it's easier to just port the same game to the pc.
So while you twelve years ago had experiences that were unique to a given platform; on console you'd have Sonic, Mario, Zelda, Tekken, Silent Hill, what have you and on the pc you'd have Command & Conquer, Warcraft, Wizardry, Might and Magic, Fallout, Jagged Alliance etc.
First being games that are 'best' played with a controller and the latter being games that are made to be played with a mouse and keyboard combination.
Inherent to games that can utilize this sort of hardware comes the ability to have more functions as you can create better interfaces, and it was understood that if people were smart enough to maintain a computer that they'd want a 'deeper' experience on the PC than what was offered elsewhere.
This also comes from the computers past history of offering games like Bard's Tale, Wizardry, D&D, Gold Box Games, The Black Box Games, etc. The 'computer audience' just wanted something different.
Today almost everybody's playing Mario, Sonic and Tekken.
Though there are some who still enjoy what 'used' to be the "Computer entertainment", and of course the grognards are on the pc as well.
So while the console's aren't "destroying pc gaming" pc gamers are, in not wanting more than what they're served, but happily buying/or playing, yes statistics of who plays and how many are online matter, the latest Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Battlefield etc etc that offers the exact same experience as whats offered elsewhere.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:11 Post subject: |
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Why do people keep reminding what we already know?
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:14 Post subject: |
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| Arukardo wrote: | | Why do people keep reminding what we already know? |
So that we do not forget.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14497
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:14 Post subject: |
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What's hurting the PC gaming industry is/are the MMO's (to some extent)
Let's take example World Of Warcraft. Game has been dumbed down so much that even a 3 year old could play it. Community is made up of whiny 13 year olds who only posts that EVERYTHING IN THE GAME is HARD. and therefore developers NERF IT TO THE GROUND. So people get free epic item, because having a purple is so kewl, also to get cash flowing...
I play WoW for six years now(on and off), with pretty much same people, and let me tell you 80% of them have NOT played any other game except WoW.
What do you think such a player that plays pretty dumbed down game, do you think he will play more complex game like The Witcher? Hearts Of Iron? Or any other game that requires some thinking? Probably does not even know how to play minesweeper. All he sees is WoW and will not even consider to play any other game..
12 million players says something, no?
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:16 Post subject: |
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The issue is more complex than that. For one, to prove my point, metacritic scores should be calculated with a formula taking in to account how many people read the reviews of a site, then make a weighed average of the sites having a review of said game based on how many people read the review there. So if a game gets a 7 from one site with 2 readers, yet gets a 9 from a site with 4 readers, the average shouldn't be 8, it should be weighed, and thus be 8.33.
If we had such a statistic, we'd see a bias towards games with, how should I put it, greater hype (read: larger money spent on buying reviews).
That's just one. The other problem is what non-review type articles these "journalists" write, and what values they impart. That affects gaming culture, and they're hyping up the "awesome buttons" the "sexy panthers" and other stuff like that, instead of acting like FUCKING JOURNALISTS and asking at least a few criticizing questions. In all interviews they COMPLETELY play in the same team as the developers - shoving shit down our throat, and calling it desirable.
Journalists should prompt the readers to think, analyze, think critically. Instead gaming journalists can be easily be regarded as the extension of a few publisher's marketing division.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:18 Post subject: |
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| besthijacker wrote: | | I play WoW for six years now(on and off), with pretty much same people, and let me tell you 80% of them have NOT played any other game except WoW. |
So? On the 360 there are many casuals that buy exactly 1 game/year: CoD. How do you think it sells so many copies? Everyone can afford it, because for many people it's the only game they buy every year.
Does CoD hurt console gaming? 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:22 Post subject: |
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| besthijacker wrote: | What's hurting the PC gaming industry is/are the MMO's (to some extent)
Let's take example World Of Warcraft. Game has been dumbed down so much that even a 3 year old could play it. Community is made up of whiny 13 year olds who only posts that EVERYTHING IN THE GAME is HARD. and therefore developers NERF IT TO THE GROUND. So people get free epic item, because having a purple is so kewl, also to get cash flowing...
I play WoW for six years now(on and off), with pretty much same people, and let me tell you 80% of them have NOT played any other game except WoW.
What do you think such a player that plays pretty dumbed down game, do you think he will play more complex game like The Witcher? Hearts Of Iron? Or any other game that requires some thinking? Probably does not even know how to play minesweeper. All he sees is WoW and will not even consider to play any other game..
12 million players says something, no? |
From my posts I think it's obvious, I am not one to jump to irresponsible conclusions, but everyone knows WoW players are the Derps of the PC.
But it's all good, because theoretically, no one goes from being a hardcore gamer to being a casual (casual is not time invested, remember that, it's how complex games they play), whilst there is a natural, spontaneous transition from casuals to hardcore. That means, that even though the market for hardcores doesn't increase at the same speed as the casual market does, it still DOES increase in absolute numbers. That means developing for them is absolutely positively profitable.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:24 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | besthijacker wrote: | | I play WoW for six years now(on and off), with pretty much same people, and let me tell you 80% of them have NOT played any other game except WoW. |
So? On the 360 there are many casuals that buy exactly 1 game/year: CoD. How do you think it sells so many copies? Everyone can afford it, because for many people it's the only game they buy every year.
Does CoD hurt console gaming? |
Another factor is, I, as a PC gamer, due to my culture, don't have the burning need to constantly keep playing new games. I buy only that, which I really want to buy, and that's very few games per year, and I have high expectations. I however play all my old games a fucking ton.
On the console, people don't really play older games - there's the whole issue of backwards incompatibility adding to it too. It's a whole other gaming culture.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:29 Post subject: |
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Is the current trend the natural order of things? Remember how literature started out as an elitist art with only a small fraction of people being able to read and write. As literacy advanced, so did greed and people began to please the masses to make profit. What is the most read medium today: tabloids.
Movies too started out small but today the most important franchise in the business is Michael Bay's Transformers.
Why should we expect games to develop differently? I don't mean to say that it's good, it just doesn't surprise me.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:33 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: | Is the current trend the natural order of things? Remember how literature started out as an elitist art with only a small fraction of people being able to read and write. As literacy advanced, so did greed and people began to please the masses to make profit. What is the most read medium today: tabloids.
Movies too started out small but today the most important franchise in the business is Michael Bay's Transformers.
Why should we expect games to develop differently? I don't mean to say that it's good, it just doesn't surprise me. |
Avatar is loads worse than Transformers - and thus a much better example, of what you're saying. Especially since hype and the positive feedback loop stemmed from it are to thank for that movie's economic success.
Yes, but with literature, it has come almost full circle, so few people read out of a hobby these days, instead of watching TV or playing games, that there are very many talented writers, writing very fucking good things, that I love to read. And the supply of quality works of literature far surpasses my time available for them, it's the exact inverse in gaming.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:43 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: | Is the current trend the natural order of things? Remember how literature started out as an elitist art with only a small fraction of people being able to read and write. As literacy advanced, so did greed and people began to please the masses to make profit. What is the most read medium today: tabloids.
Movies too started out small but today the most important franchise in the business is Michael Bay's Transformers.
Why should we expect games to develop differently? I don't mean to say that it's good, it just doesn't surprise me. |
Of course, all of these things work like this. The movie analogy is better though; writing a book doesn't necessarily cost a lot of cash, which makes it easier to take risks or simply 'write what you would like to read' instead of thinking about what other people would want to read.
That's how computer games started out too; nerds down in their basement would make games *they* wanted to play, instead of having a marketing department tell them how their games should play. Can we get back there though? It might be possible if it eventually becomes so cheap to make decent-quality games that you don't need a high budget anymore. However, there are some things even technology probably can't solve, like high-quality game art/assets.
On the other hand, gameplay is certainly possible on a low budget, when you consider that Toady(Dwarf Fortress) practically lives on donations and his game has more gameplay than anything else out there.
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fraich3
Posts: 2907
Location: Not from my mouth!
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:57 Post subject: |
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Oh my god, now Blizzard are going to put RTS on consoles! The world is going under!
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/console/
"Zipfero is the biggest fucking golddigger ever" - Mutantius
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 22:59 Post subject: |
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Seems like making fun of casuals is the thing this April. That's good. BioWare, I hope you realize it's all a joke, people don't actually want games like that.
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2011 23:04 Post subject: |
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Most of these doomsday articles about gaming forget one thing: interdependent digital distribution. Games like Braid, Super Meat Boy and even the larger (but still not huge) Telltale games are still there and while we see tons of repetitive CoD and WoW clones I don't have the feeling that quality games are dying, they're just harder to spot among the derp games.
I'm convinced that the old school gaming will prevail. Even though there are Avatar and Transformers, there is still room for District 9. So while CoD reigns, games like Portal 2 can still sell well enough to remain profitable.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Apr 2011 01:33 Post subject: |
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Only problem is I like to see the combination. Braid keeps me entertained for a while but I want Great production value AND great game play (non derp). There are a few out there, but only one or two games like this released each year. I am defintely a graphics whore when I play games on PC (just love seeing tech evolve). So what? Two girls one cup?
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Apr 2011 08:01 Post subject: |
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Eh, consoles are superior to PC games anyway. As far as the FPS genre is concerned.
According to this guy anyway.
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Gustave the Steel
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xDBS
Posts: 1937
Location: USA / Japan
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Apr 2011 09:02 Post subject: |
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| AKofC wrote: |
According to this guy anyway.
| Spoiler: | |
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I wonder how many people that guy baited.
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