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 Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 12:22 Post subject: |
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| CableMunkeh wrote: |
Perhaps the low take up is due to contracts expiring. Notice that SD4 is evolving towards an SF3 style scheme now, think the days of purely wrapper based protection are disappearing.
A Ubi release soon on its' way by the way is The Bard's Tale, however I foresee no issues here as the demo is completely unprotected *ahem*  one for groups to get the comparison tool onto when it's released 
On another issue, Silent Hunter 3, I notice that the RLD release comes with exe and 2 dlls in the cracked files section, unlike the more recent releases. Anyone have any ideas about this one? Naughty, naughty RLD! It's either a dodgy group of files or a 'loader'  |
well not only contracts - sf3 isnt usefull for all types of games and esp the pro vm protection takes alot processor speed from the game into the protection decrypting during play and the ppl paying games are kids with not always high end machines so they need to find the middle between protection and gamespeed ... thats a reason why f.e. EA and Sega said they will stay with macrovision.
For Sd4 ur a bit wrong .. the protection it self isnt that hard to decrypt ... what sometimes makes SD4 hard is the option to add an unlimited amount of CRC checks that doesnt slow down the game ... sims 2 addon, snooker 2005 ... i have not much about the protection itself but snooker 2005 f.e. has more then 300 crc checks added that check the exe during play and morphes the code if not proper.
For SH3 the 2 dlls reloaded had in crackdir are protected with sf3 in the original game .. so they had to remove it to crack it ... a protected dll protects the exe to be dumped proper from memory so they need to be done before you can crack the main exe. OOn Shg3 they used this option isntead of VM as VM protection would slow down the game so much that it would be unplayable. Thats why SF has different protections basic, pro and extended + proactive.
* basic is simple sf3 used in star wolves or maximus iv f.e. and some other games
* pro is divided into classes of vm protected opcode count ...
till 10, till 20, till 50, over 50 (255 different opcode protection variants are possible)
instead of till 10 u can choose protection of addional files (dlls, data files)
* extended protected opcodes and protected ingame data in a big .dat (crypted by sf3 crypter) data file on cd/dvd ... seen on medieval lords, d-day for example what is somehow the king of protections
* pro active is a online activation stuff that provides a serial based on ur hardware instead of media properties of a cdrom
* for all 1 thins is same: the serial is based on diskname, disksize, countrycode, rmps data (so if not used as online serial for servers) every game in a country has the same serial .. thatswhy f.e. splinter gave 2 serials .. 1 sf3 + add online
So the top protection for a dvd5 game would be in sum
255 protected opcodes (pcodes), and the whole game data crypted in a .dat file all together on a dvd9 
but that would make the game run like doom3 on a pentium 1
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 12:25 Post subject: |
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kaine
Posts: 423
Location: Under your bed
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 12:52 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 13:10 Post subject: |
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I've other point of view.
I assume that Starforce copy protection is being developed by 2-3 persons. I also assume that it may be broken by.... a single person.
Software cracking is not similar to software developing where the project is divided into branches and different teams. In cracking you've to gain all the knowledge in your head, you don't need anyone else to help (if you're good enough).
I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam; I looked into the soul of the boy next to me.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 13:30 Post subject: |
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Team of Starforce coders? Now I see how they managed to do it.
Regarding Starforce comaptibility problems you are right. I've two friends who bought Splinter Cell CT. One of them can't run it (still can't, even after trying different software modifications) and the second one complains about in-game slow-downs.
I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam; I looked into the soul of the boy next to me.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 14:12 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 14:33 Post subject: |
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I still believe in the come back of Ultima. Nevertheless of their NFO information ("don't count on us with each Starforce title") I am convinced they will appear again, especially when we see so big frustration and problems with Starforce. Keep in mind that Ultima appeared because "too much rumours about uncrackable Starforce last days" and these rumours are back! But they are turning into a fact.
They have to be back or we will face serious problems with Starforce games deprotection.
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TheDuck
Posts: 148
Location: Australia
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kaine
Posts: 423
Location: Under your bed
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 16:34 Post subject: |
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| CableMunkeh wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | iIf you ask me, modifying someone else's code might be illegal. Also, locking out HDD access can lead to data loss and problems. StarForce uses questionable techniques to protect the data, and I think that is why you dont see many games using it. Also, StarForce (due to the nature of its protection) needs blank CDs to be very similar to each other (physically) when they're being printed. That is not a problem for a company if they're only using 1 place to press them and all their blanks come from the same manufacturer, but if they have lots of pressing plants and use different media, then using StarForce can be painfull. |
Modifying code flow is what any helper program that works on another one does. If you're going to call SF illegal you also have to call any debugger, tracer and VMWare, virtual drives, etc, illegal as they are taking other programs and emulating, modifying their code flow by passing them through their own code. For SF3 to be on risky ground it would need to modify the code permanently, not transiently as it passes through memory / registers.
Locking out HDD access won't lead to data loss and problems as programs request exclusive access, SF can't 'force' the kernel to do anything, and the drive can't be mounted / unmounted / exclusively claimed until no longer active. A number of programs can and do request exclusive access to system resources, this is what hardware interrupts are for.
Remember kids, SF3 isn't the only copy protection installing device drivers on your machine. UAService mean anything?
Starforce's DVD/CD checks aren't what make it strong, there's more to it than just checking the drives. Haven't seen any publishers complaining of mass replication issues with it.
Perhaps the low take up is due to contracts expiring. Notice that SD4 is evolving towards an SF3 style scheme now, think the days of purely wrapper based protection are disappearing. As a game publisher I'd be looking at SF3 as slightly immature technology but the time between release and crack (REAL crack where publisher didn't release non-SF3 versions anywhere, and where SF3 Pro with VM options are on) would make me see the dollar/pound/euro signs.
A Ubi release soon on its' way by the way is The Bard's Tale, however I foresee no issues here as the demo is completely unprotected *ahem* one for groups to get the comparison tool onto when it's released
On another issue, Silent Hunter 3, I notice that the RLD release comes with exe and 2 dlls in the cracked files section, unlike the more recent releases. Anyone have any ideas about this one? Naughty, naughty RLD! It's either a dodgy group of files or a 'loader' |
umm....ok? I didnt write that cuz I dont know shit about tech specs of sf3 and i dont claim to and I recall reading that quote from someone else yesterday..... |
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 16:40 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: |
umm....ok? I didnt write that cuz I dont know shit about tech specs of sf3 and i dont claim to and I recall reading that quote from someone else yesterday..... |
Tis ok, just a response to those desperate to prove SF3 as illegal, which it isn't which ever way you play it.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 17:08 Post subject: |
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| CableMunkeh wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: |
umm....ok? I didnt write that cuz I dont know shit about tech specs of sf3 and i dont claim to and I recall reading that quote from someone else yesterday..... |
Tis ok, just a response to those desperate to prove SF3 as illegal, which it isn't which ever way you play it. |
lol just confused me thats all |
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 17:42 Post subject: |
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Ultima realy does not have build up so much credit for me.., come on these guys only released 2 games. i still would like it if they come back though but rather have an real good scene team come back..
Last edited by highstuff on Tue, 19th Apr 2005 17:57; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 17:58 Post subject: |
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man, they cracked what they wanted and when they wanted, that's probably why they took 2 only
don't forget they cracked 2 games but no one else was able to crack these 2. in Colin they even waited for the scene and finally made it on their own
as u can read in XR info they did it to show the scene that it's possible to crack every SF3 game
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 18:27 Post subject: |
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5 month ago they could but we don't know if they still can do it with this version.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 19:29 Post subject: |
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| lAmBaDa wrote: | man, they cracked what they wanted and when they wanted, that's probably why they took 2 only
don't forget they cracked 2 games but no one else was able to crack these 2. in Colin they even waited for the scene and finally made it on their own
as u can read in XR info they did it to show the scene that it's possible to crack every SF3 game |
your are full right on this they (its only 2 person) dont need to show any1 anything .. and just to say so ULTIMAs wax to baypass the sf3 checks is still possible as long as no .dat file game data protections is added and i dont think the way is against any scene rules as its a full patched "protect.dll" and a full dumped and rebuild of protected exe/dll files.
Its still possible todo it that way (not as easy as it but it still is) but ULTIMA 100% sure doesnt return to crack!
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 19:44 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | your are full right on this they (its only 2 person) dont need to show any1 anything |
You still surprises me.
First you post "secret" information concerning Reloaded. Now you come with "awesome" information about Ultima. Are you FBI spy (I'm kidding)? How can you know Reloaded and Ultima details at the same time if the second one is not related to scene?
2 persons? Do you know what you are talking about? I saw both their releases (yet I don't play them) and heard few discussions about them. They contain:
Starforce crack, installers decompilation, own graphics, own photos (a drill inside Colin game box), own music, own intros, own autorun application.
Excuse me but you want to say that it has been done by two persons? Look at it again and please confirm me that. Did you ever saw so skilled:
programmer, cracker, graphician (and photographer?), musician, reverser?
Two persons you said? I would love to meet these "two persons". Or is it one person now? I know that groups can contain even 10-20 persons and such groups can do things like Ultima but please do not tell me it has been done by 2 persons. Even my 5 years old brother would not believe it.
No one knows them but you do?
Sorry, but this sounds like Lord of The Rings.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 20:17 Post subject: |
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lads, u'll laught. i know u'll but i am SERIOUS now.
after xpand rally release i've been asking few friends (active scene members, but not crackers) about ultima and i've heard different mystic stories. the fact were: no one knew anything reliable and ultima is not from scene - that was clear.
shortly after that one friend told me: (i remeber these words pretty well) 'they = him, xr = show and you'll see one more show from him and it'll be similar game. if the scene fail again he'll be back for the 3rd time, but then it may be the last time'
i asked him about all that multimedia shit and he confirmed that Ultima releases have been done by....... single and the same person.
few weeks ago i tried to arrange another meeting with this friend to ask about scct but i didn't see him this year....
martinw: i don't know if it's really possible to be skilled in so many various fields but that's my story. believe it or not. i've no reasons to cheat you and i never cheated anyone.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 21:28 Post subject: |
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Is it 1st April or am in some weird dream?
| Quote: | | but ULTIMA 100% sure doesnt return to crack! |
| Quote: | | FOR 100% SURE ULTIMA wont comeback .. i can promisse you this. |
But you claim that Ultima = 2 persons so now everything is clear. You and your friend are Ultima. That's clear because you can PROMISE us that. For a lamer like me only a member can promise such things, especially a member of so specific team like Ultima. BTW: you've my total respect for the releases, their quality and Starforce cracks (just joking).
| Quote: | No one knows them but you do?
Sorry, but this sounds like Lord of The Rings. |
He knows because he is Ultima (half of). And about Lord of the rings - it isn't that. It's Matrix.
Just when Freakshow finished, Lambada started. I believe your words but I don't believe that Ultima releases (keeping in mind the work they put in or, like you called it: "SHOW") might have been done by 1 or even 2 persons. The mystery of Ultima comes from places like this one.
| Quote: | | Maybe this guy is an ex-DEV, FLT, IMS, or RZR cracker... The BEST cracker the scene has ever had... |
But who did the audio/video stuff? It smells like scene style (maybe except the second Ultima track in Colin) so someone, except Freakshow, should know them.
I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam; I looked into the soul of the boy next to me.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 21:49 Post subject: |
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I don't have ULTIMA's nfos but I think I read somewhere that they wrote... "We are not from the scene"... or something like that... So probably this can be a proof that it's not one guy... (maybe they don't want to uncover the number of members)... But If I was Ultima... and I was the only member I would write this... to show how lame other BIG groups are...
I also think that's almost impossible for one guy to do so many different things... Prolly it was some scene branch that got out... or maybe a cracker who had help from one of the groups... I guess we'll never know... we can only speculate...
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005 22:31 Post subject: |
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I'd actually agree with the above, but I don't think that the ULTIMA team were ever associated with the scene, they give an impression of being more frustrated with the scene but from an outside looking in point of view. (Amazing what you deduce from an nfo or two).
However all we can do is speculate, they appeared with a couple of cracks, and a few words for the scene, then disappeared just as quickly.
A bit of an enigma they are and remain, as far as I'm aware kept VERY much to themselves.
Speculation is great, but perhaps should they release again they'll give us some more information?
I'm not too worried though, will just be good to see them back, they hopefully will have the effect of giving the scene a well-needed kick squarely in the ass!
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