| Page 25 of 43 |
|
|
 Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:07 Post subject: |
|
 |
Honestly.. some people baffle me. You've got one guy claiming America is using HAARP to decimate Japan with Magnitude 9 earthquakes ... and you've got another guy claiming it's a legal right in the EU to download pirated material for your own personal use.
This site is awesome.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| StrEagle wrote: | | Pirating (downloading and using) for personal, non-profit use is LEGAL in EU. |
1) Search Dragon Age 2 on torrentz
2) Download & Install
3) ???
4) Non-Profit !!! <-- it's legal !
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | Honestly.. some people baffle me. You've got one guy claiming America is using HAARP to decimate Japan with Magnitude 9 earthquakes ... and you've got another guy claiming it's a legal right in the EU to download pirated material for your own personal use.
This site is awesome. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:30 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Software piracy isn't "criminal" in any country; it's a CIVIL matter but you can still be sued in a court of law and you can still be fined or jailed. Some countries are more/less lenient and some have considerably more relaxed laws and definitions on the meaning of piracy ... but in the EU? It's ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE. |
First of all this is not an issue that is covered by European Law but by national law. This would mean thet every country in the Eu has it`s own rules about the issue. For example, it is perfectly legal to dowload music, games, movies and whatever other crap you can think of here in Holland. Uploading any copyrighted material with the intent to distribute it is illegal however. That it is illegal does however not mean that there cant be a civil claime aswell allongside the "criminal"claim as you like to call it.
Then there is something else, if you are confronted with an Civil lawsuit you can not be fined nor jailed since a citizen does not have the autority to ask such a thing, and the judge in most EU country`s does not have the authority to add charges himself. To be short.
There is no European Law article yet that adresses the piracy issue. You can however be drawn into an civil law suit and you can be ordered to pay a certain amount of money.
Normaly i keep on the background but when i see this kind of pretended knowledge it just gets on my nerves.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:31 Post subject: |
|
|
Well the thing is that you are allowed to COPY media for personal use, that prolly got him confused.
Edit: it even might be so that you do have to have the original... could be wrong on that tho.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34974
Location: Sweden
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 19:47 Post subject: |
|
|
| JanosNL wrote: | For example, it is perfectly legal to dowload music, games, movies and whatever other crap you can think of here in Holland.
|
Yet it's illegal to offer them for download, so that law is beyond retarded. "It's legal to download! ... but it's illegal to have a download link in the first place. Catch 22! Duh hur!"
Still, you are right about Holland and legal downloads - that much is true, but Holland isn't "the EU" - it's a country with its own laws. StrEagle claimed it is a legal right to download pirated material for your own use in "the EU" - he didn't state "in Holland" - so my comment stands; it's not "legal" to pirate software in the EU. I do wholeheartedly apologise for, and retract, my previous statement "illegal everywhere" - as I wasn't aware Holland had legalised downloads. My mistake =)
Still, shall we go through the checklist of countries that are members of the EU and see how many have legalised piracy? 
| Quote: |
That it is illegal does however not mean that there cant be a civil claime aswell allongside the "criminal"claim as you like to call it.
|
I never stated it was a criminal matter, in fact; I did the very opposite and stated that copyright infringement is a CIVIL matter. That doesn't change the fact that you can, and generally are, still tried in a court of law.
| Quote: |
Then there is something else, if you are confronted with an Civil lawsuit you can not be fined nor jailed since a citizen does not have the autority to ask such a thing, and the judge in most EU country`s does not have the authority to add charges himself. To be short.
|
Tell that to the founders of Pirate Bay. Sweden is part of the EU (ahahaha, suckers  ) and the courts ruled against them, fining them several millions of dollars and JAILING three of the four - with intent to jail the fourth.
| Quote: |
Normaly i keep on the background but when i see this kind of pretended knowledge it just gets on my nerves. |
Wait, so you call ME out on some random bullshit another guy says... and I'm the one that gets on your nerves? Yeah, I think you should stick to the background in future thanks. Since I so obviously "get on your nerves" - I recommend ignoring me and I'll ignore you. That way everything is peachy and we won't have to irritate one another =)
| sausje wrote: | Well the thing is that you are allowed to COPY media for personal use, that prolly got him confused.
|
This =)
It's still a pretty big grey area, but the general consensus is that you're allowed to make a personal backup of software YOU OWN. Holland may have legalised downloading pirated material for "home use" (which in and by itself is fucking retarded. "Hey, don't worry about paying for software... it's completely legal to steal it over here!" Must be all the weed ) but Holland != "The EU" 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 20:08 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | JanosNL wrote: | For example, it is perfectly legal to dowload music, games, movies and whatever other crap you can think of here in Holland.
|
Yet it's illegal to offer them for download, so that law is beyond retarded. "It's legal to download! ... but it's illegal to have a download link in the first place. Catch 22! Duh hur!"
Still, you are right about Holland and legal downloads - that much is true, but Holland isn't "the EU" - it's a country with its own laws. StrEagle claimed it is a legal right to download pirated material for your own use in "the EU" - he didn't state "in Holland" - so my comment stands; it's not "legal" to pirate software in the EU.
Shall we go through the checklist of countries that are members of the EU and see how many have legalised piracy?
| Quote: |
That it is illegal does however not mean that there cant be a civil claime aswell allongside the "criminal"claim as you like to call it.
|
I never stated it was a criminal matter, in fact; I did the very opposite and stated that copyright infringement is a CIVIL matter. That doesn't change the fact that you can, and generally are, still tried in a court of law.
| Quote: |
Then there is something else, if you are confronted with an Civil lawsuit you can not be fined nor jailed since a citizen does not have the autority to ask such a thing, and the judge in most EU country`s does not have the authority to add charges himself. To be short.
|
Tell that to the founders of Pirate Bay. Sweden is part of the EU (ahahaha, suckers ) and the courts ruled against them, fining them several millions of dollars and JAILING three of the four - with intent to jail the fourth.
| Quote: |
Normaly i keep on the background but when i see this kind of pretended knowledge it just gets on my nerves. |
Wait, so you call ME out on some random bullshit another guy says... and I'm the one that gets on your nerves? Yeah, I think you should stick to the background in future thanks. Since I so obviously "get on your nerves" - I recommend ignoring me and I'll ignore you. That way everything is peachy and we won't have to irritate one another =)
| sausje wrote: | Well the thing is that you are allowed to COPY media for personal use, that prolly got him confused.
|
This =)
It's still a pretty big grey area, but the general consensus is that you're allowed to make a personal backup of software YOU OWN. Holland may have legalised downloading pirated material for "home use" (which in and by itself is fucking retarded. "Hey, don't worry about paying for software... it's completely legal to steal it over here!" Must be all the weed ) but Holland != "The EU" |
Well, retarded or not it is the law. It the same with buying light narcotics here. You can buy them for personal use, however you are now allowed to grow them. It`s an called tolerated here in Holland.
To be clear, i used holland as en example to show you there is no EU law concerning this matter, if there whas the dutch Law would no longer be intact since EU laws are higher in the hierarchy. So your statement about dowloading being illegal in the EU EVRYWHERE as you staed it is wrong.
So is your statement about the jailing/fining. As i clarified you cant be jailed or fined in a civil court, you can claim damages from a person however and can be sentenced to pay them. So your statement about that is wrong to. When i recall it correctly the legal proceedings in Sweden were of criminal nature, i however am not sure of this and will look it up. Still the point remains that it is not possible to be jailed for a civil charge.
I do call you out for the statements you made, whatever some other member said about this is not of any concern in this matter. I however have to admit that there are more statements made that are wrong by other people. So i do apologize if i came on a little hard on you.
Edit: I see i missed something, it is true that have never claimed that it is a criminal matter, i however never claimed that you did. It was just an little extra information on the matter.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 20:26 Post subject: |
|
|
A few corrections:
First, stop calling it Holland damned, I'm Dutch but I'm sure as hell not from fucking Holland (neither one, because there's two of them!  ).
Second, downloading any form of software is NOT legal in our country, nor has it ever been, or will it ever be. That is in fact illegal everywhere in the EU, as it falls under European copyright laws; home copies of software are illegal in the EU and as such downloading any form of software that is not distributed freely in the first place is illegal. Period. Just like it is impossible for anyone BUT the writer of the code to have the legal copyright to that code (in the EU that is, in the US laws are fucked up on that matter); that means Ubisoft as a publisher owns jackshit. They have the legal distribution right, as the original programmer relinquished that right (copyright is not transferrable, distribution right is), but not the copyright.
Furthermore, in the Netherlands (THAT is the proper name of our country, thank you very much ) downloading music and films is sort of legal. Basically, home copies are legal as long as the original creator receives *some* form of compensation. Considering blank CDs and DVDs have some special tax added for that (for the Dutchies: thuiskopieheffing), technically every blank disc you buy pretty much grants you the right to download an album or film.
That said, the whole Pirate Bay thing is fucked up. By the logic applied during that trial (or in the trial against FTD here in NL for that matter), one could sue Google, Microsoft, Yahoo or Skype just the same because they provide means to either find or transfer illegal content. Any search engine or application with file transfer capabilities can be considered illegal by that fucked up logic.
Edit @ Janos btw: Growing weed is perfectly fine up to 5 plants, as long as you don't use any technical tools (such as lamps). Above that and/or with tools it's considered industrial, and you can be prosecuted
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 20:31 Post subject: |
|
|
| JanosNL wrote: |
I do call you out for the statements you made, whatever some other member said about this is not of any concern in this matter. I however have to admit that there are more statements made that are wrong by other people. So i do apologize if i came on a little hard on you.
Edit: I see i missed something, it is true that have never claimed that it is a criminal matter, i however never claimed that you did. It was just an little extra information on the matter. |
No worries, you've been here long enough to know I'm pretty... umm... vocal and have rather strong opinions I'm not from the Netherlands, so I don't pretend/claim to know the intricacies of your laws - I was just responding, perhaps with a more blanket extrapolation that was required, that piracy isn't legal in the EU.
| Werelds wrote: | A few corrections:
First, stop calling it Holland damned, I'm Dutch but I'm sure as hell not from fucking Holland (neither one, because there's two of them! ).
|
 Sorry mate <3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wahad
Posts: 406
Location: Lebanon
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 20:52 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Software piracy isn't "criminal" in any country; it's a CIVIL matter but you can still be sued in a court of law and you can still be fined or jailed. Some countries are more/less lenient and some have considerably more relaxed laws and definitions on the meaning of piracy ... but in the EU? It's ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE. |
Not true. In the Land of the Free, they have a special DMCA law which makes it illegal to circumvent copyright shit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 20:56 Post subject: |
|
|
Well, in the US you can also patent the way you crap out a turd as long as it's "different" enough.
Wish I was joking, but that basically is the requirement to get any patent over there. Hence the 2938529356 patent law suits in the US between Apple and the rest of the world, because those US patents aren't legal over here 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:19 Post subject: |
|
|
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:20 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
|
|
| Wahad wrote: | | Sry for interrupting your argument i just wanna say, if someone want for 24 from www.cdkeysdiscount.com PM me for discount code, its 30$ otherwise |
This product is no longer in stock
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:27 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:35 Post subject: |
|
|
Back on offtopic, here in Bulgaria, the police started arresting and confiscating the rigs (for over a year) of ppl with top upload ratings in torrent sites, UNTIL that EU stuff with legal for personal use was ruled, and then they stopped. So I don't know about other countries, but here it had great impact. Currently the police only busts massive ISP caches of internal HDD racks with films/games/etc.
Last edited by StrEagle on Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:36 Post subject: |
|
|
Again, only for music and films mate, does not apply to software 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:39 Post subject: |
|
|
No actually the big problem were the films. Currently the 2 major local torrent trackers have an agreement to remove 0-day film (and sometime game) releases, when the supplier mails them, until they become more common or 1-2 weeks after pre-premiere on cinemas.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2011 21:45 Post subject: |
|
|
and Zamunda.net
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 25 of 43 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
