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 Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 13:42 Post subject: Polyphasic sleep |
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Has anyone read something exhaustive on the subject? I read some people blogs saying it works and its great, other claim it cannot possibly work.
Anyone here tried it maybe?
I'd really like to get those extra hours in the day, however I am worried that even if I manage to stay alert for 20+ hours that I won't be able to think as clearly. And that's quite important to me as my work requires a lot of thinking and problem solving, and it's the main reason I'd like to increase my waking hours.
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 14:19 Post subject: |
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Is that when you sleep like 20 min but through the whole day? I don't think it would work for me because I live with other ppl who are attuned to normal sleeping pattern (or semi normal)...
Plus you need to train your body to do that, and that can be exhausting...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 14:21 Post subject: |
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I'm in a position to try it now during the holidays when I don't have many responsibilities, and if it truly does work I'll somehow adjust my schedule to make it work.
I'm willing to give up the entire holiday season trying to train myself but I'm not gonna do it unless I find some facts about it...which seems impossible.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24642
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 14:47 Post subject: |
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Lack of proper deep sleep actually causes brain damage. The brain shrinks with prolonged periods of sleep depravation/lack of deep sleep.
http://www.prlog.org/10254993-lack-of-sleep-reported-to-cause-brain-damage-premature-death-and-other-health-issues.html
And dozens of other reports. If it's only for a short period of time you shouldn't suffer any other consequences than some temporary memory problems and cognitive difficulties.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 15:18 Post subject: |
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Yeah but polyphasic sleep supposedly trains your brain to enter deep sleep within few minutes of sleep, while normally it takes about 2 hours. This is based on some actual research from what I can tell.
However I'm not sure what are the other stages of sleep are used for.
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garus
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 15:19 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:36; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 15:47 Post subject: |
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I dont think that works. Polyphasic requires you to sleep 6 times a day for 30minutes, with very strict sleeping schedule that forces the brain to adjust to better exploit little time it has for sleep.
I suppose when you sleep 3 hours at once you experience a maximum of 1 hour of deep sleep.
But 6x30 of deep sleep that polyphasic offers, its three hours of deep sleep, which is pretty much equal to the deep sleep amount as if you sleep 8h.
Plus there are videos on youtube(they look real), and people look alert. I'm just wondering do the cognitive powers decrease however.
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 17:07 Post subject: |
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It works if you really follow absolutely strict sleeping pattern.
Miss a cycle or two and you're really fucked. My friend (who I have to add was a bit compulsive about his ideas) actually tried that. When he had to skip a few sleeps once he looked like he had been raped, dragged under a car and the forced to watch Twilight.
i5 6600k @ 4.3 GHz | MSI z170 Gaming M7 | 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury | 850 Evo 500GB | EVGA 1070 SC | Seasonic X-660 | CM Storm Stryker
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 17:15 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 17:24 Post subject: |
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Plus what if you need to 'nap' like in 12 am and you're at work? How will your boss react seeing you sleeping on the job? 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 18:22 Post subject: |
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work/boss isn't the only problem here. think about it, you'd have to stuff your whole agenda into a schedule where you can never stay awake for more than about 3 hours. might work if you're antisocial and/or never step outside the house, but every other person would probably take the "loss" of about 4 hours a day for a non-fucked-up sleeping schedule.
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Nov 2010 22:07 Post subject: |
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Yeah I have read up on it some months ago, also looking to gain some more hours from each day. But apparently most people who also had blogs about it stopped doing it after some months, simply because it interfered so much with the usual daily pattern the world around them has.
Apparently it worked great, but if you have to go to sleep every couple of hours it just interferes too much with any kind of work you do.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Nov 2010 02:01 Post subject: |
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exactly. and if you're just looking fro more time/less time spent sleeping, simply make sure you've got a good biorythm and quality sleep
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 21:55 Post subject: |
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It's well established that sleeping during daylight hours and to a lesser extent in the presence of a moderate light source has a detrimental effect on your health. Regardless of anything else, 3 hours is simply not enough time for your physiology to adequately regenerate.
You'll be shortening your life expectancy significantly if you adopt a polyphasic sleeping pattern. Do you really think your body can be fully metabolically active for an extra 5 hours each day without a trade off in overall longevity...
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 22:41 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | Do you really think your body can be fully metabolically active for an extra 5 hours each day without a trade off in overall longevity... |
Why not? I can overclock my CPU and it won't really affect its longetivity 
And I know plenty of people who sleep 6 hours a day no problem. I don't think there is any scientific proof that sleeping less will kill you sooner(Although sleep deprivation probably will if you don't use any special method like polyphasic (if it works)). And even if there is, I'm sure there isn't any research on polyphasic sleep.
And wouldn't by your analogy people who do a lot of physical work during their lives die sooner too? |
Are you that ignorant, there is a huge amount of scientific evidence that sleeping less then 6 hours a night or more then 9 reduces life expectancy by increasing the risk of premature death. Aside from that "It's well established that sleeping during daylight hours and to a lesser extent in the presence of a moderate light source has a detrimental effect on your health". Just do a Google search...
There is enough research on the individual elements that comprise a polyphasic sleep schedule (i.e. sleeping during the day, sleeping less then 6 hours) to be quite definite about it's negative effects on health.
Total sleep deprivation will kill you within 18 months, sooner in most cases.
First off I didn't use an analogy, I made a literal statement. Secondly, a person who is more physically active is not reducing the length of time their body has to enter an anabolic cycle during sleep. So yeah, your last sentence is just nonsense.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 23:18 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | BearishSun wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | Do you really think your body can be fully metabolically active for an extra 5 hours each day without a trade off in overall longevity... |
Why not? I can overclock my CPU and it won't really affect its longetivity
And I know plenty of people who sleep 6 hours a day no problem. I don't think there is any scientific proof that sleeping less will kill you sooner(Although sleep deprivation probably will if you don't use any special method like polyphasic (if it works)). And even if there is, I'm sure there isn't any research on polyphasic sleep.
And wouldn't by your analogy people who do a lot of physical work during their lives die sooner too? |
Are you that ignorant, there is a huge amount of scientific evidence that sleeping less then 6 hours a night or more then 9 reduces life expectancy by increasing the risk of premature death. Aside from that "It's well established that sleeping during daylight hours and to a lesser extent in the presence of a moderate light source has a detrimental effect on your health". Just do a Google search...
There is enough research on the individual elements that comprise a polyphasic sleep schedule (i.e. sleeping during the day, sleeping less then 6 hours) to be quite definite about it's negative effects on health.
Total sleep deprivation will kill you within 18 months, sooner in most cases.
First off I didn't use an analogy, I made a literal statement. Secondly, a person who is more physically active is not reducing the length of time their body has to enter an anabolic cycle during sleep. So yeah, your last sentence is just nonsense. |
There are statistics (And I don't like statistics because I think they can offer a very skewed perspective on things) saying people sleeping less have higher risks of dying sooner. But that's hardly conclusive evidence. People sleeping less probably overall have some kind of problems and lead stressful lives that causes them to sleep less, which in turn scientists can in turn connect to risk of death, for the wrong reasons. (And most of the articles I've found about it point to the same paper claiming that). Of course I'm not saying sleeping 3 hours a day (without polyphasic) wont kill or hurt you, I'm quite sure it will. But I'm saying research could be wrong and connection with 1-2h of less sleep to death risk is not all that great, which in turn would make the risks with polyphasic much lower considering it's meant to keep you running, despite low amounts of sleep.
Like I said there is no such research for polyphasic sleep that I know of. I'm sure there are some side-effects, but so there are for smoking cigarettes, or drinking alchocol, and a lot of people don't consider them relevant to stop doing those things, and neither do I. Your initial statement however seemed like you were claiming it was a valid reason for concern, as if my life you would be shortened 5-10 years because of it, which I have hard time believing, which is why I called you out on it; maybe I was wrong there.
And I doubt even more that people sleeping during day have such serious health problems. I used to sleep 5am-13pm, for months a time, combined probably over 2 years and I felt more rested then than now when I have to wake up early.
And what is an "anabolic cycle"? Google has no answer (Except for a bunch of steroid related articles). Only thing close to that I could find is anabolism, and that relates to building muscle and organ tissue and don't see how is that relevant. Unless somehow my body only "regenerates" tissue during the night, which I don't think is true.
Only relevant thing about sleep I can find is that it is used for restoring brain "power levels", or reorganizing the connections in your brain to work better. Which polyphasic sleep is supposed to keep at normal levels with less sleep. So what exactly am I not getting by sleeping less then? I'm sure there are plenty of things; it can't come at no cost at all, but I don't think there are any of them worth mentioning. Only thing I can think of is less physical energy, but like you said exhaustion and physical work shouldn't affect you right? (Which to me sounds the same: getting less energy or using more energy)
And yeah you didn't use an analogy, I did. It was a slip. Nice that you called me out on it though. Shows maturity.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 23:27 Post subject: |
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Sleep is also when you do 90% (or some other made up number) of your actual healing. Once you get about 3 hours of sleep and actually BEGIN to rest and REM sleep, your body heals much more efficiently. Without this, your immune system would begin to fail, you'd heal from ordinary things much slower, and likely have a slew of inbalances in the way your body processes things... Hell after working 6 months at 90 hours a week I was starting to see and hear things from lack of sleep.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 23:28 Post subject: |
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| Spazmotic wrote: | | Sleep is also when you do 90% (or some other made up number) of your actual healing. Once you get about 3 hours of sleep and actually BEGIN to rest and REM sleep, your body heals much more efficiently. Without this, your immune system would begin to fail, you'd heal from ordinary things much slower, and likely have a slew of inbalances in the way your body processes things... Hell after working 6 months at 90 hours a week I was starting to see and hear things from lack of sleep. |
Polyphasic supposedly trains your brain to start REM within few minutes of sleep. Actually not supposedly, that much is scientifically proven.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2010 23:30 Post subject: |
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Even after 3 hours though the level of REM bounces around for quite a while until like 5 hours from the last I read where real rest isn't accomplished for a good while in. I haven't read up on it so much as to be arrogant enough as to PSCHT it off..but it seems so unlikely to be successful in many cases.
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TSR69
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2010 00:56 Post subject: |
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Well I have done quite a few experiments involving sleep deprivation or postponing in my student's time and the first couple of years as a wage slave and I can tell you it is a bad thing. Your body as everyone else's needs 7+/- hour of sleep a day to recover fully. Lack of sleep also has a severe impact on the brain, no training whatsoever will reverse that. I guess that polyphasic sleep idea just prepares your body for it.
Formerly known as iconized
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| Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2010 02:27 Post subject: |
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I'm kind of curious as to whether preparing your body for it is just teaching your mind to ignore the minor hallucinations or what... Bearish.. got any decent articles to save me google time?
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Nov 2010 17:13 Post subject: |
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The Austrian Researcher Brigitte Steger has done some extensive research on japanese sleep culture, which is polyphasic:
http://www.amazon.com/Night-time-Sleep-Asia-West-Anthropology/dp/0415318505/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291132658&sr=8-1
She also wrote some popular books about polyphasic sleep, but unfortunately only in german.
And yes, it works. I switched to polyphasic sleep during my time in Tokyo, you will be tired the first weeks, but you get used to it.
Statistics say you need about 6 hours sleep a day, and our research showed that WHEN you go to sleep isn't really that important. Many japanese people sleep about 2-3 hours during the night, and the rest during subway, work.
It's not really difficult and there is not proof that polyphasic sleep has any negative side effects.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Nov 2010 20:25 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Epidemiological studies have found that long-term nightworkers have a higher risk of breast cancer risk than women who do not work at night. These studies have involved mainly nurses and flight attendants. The studies are consistent with animal studies that demonstrate that constant light, dim light at night, or simulated chronic jet lag can substantially increase tumour development. Other experimental studies show that reducing melatonin levels at night increases the incidence or growth of tumours.
These results may be explained by the disruption of the circadian system that is caused by exposure to light at night. This can alter sleep-activity patterns, suppress melatonin production, and disregulate genes involved in tumour development. Among the many different patterns of shiftwork, those that include nightwork are most disruptive to the circadian system.
"Nearly 20% of the working population in Europe and North America is engaged in shiftwork, which is most prevalent in the health-care, industrial, transportation, communications, and hospitality sectors: To date, most studies have focussed on breast cancer in nurses and flight attendants. Now more studies are needed to examine this potential risk in other professions and for other cancers," noted Dr Cogliano, Head of the IARC Monographs Programme. |
Also, if you're still sleeping a total of 6 hours, then there is no point in polyphasic sleep unless necessitated by obligations.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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spankie
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Nov 2010 23:54 Post subject: |
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I'll give you some of my insights.
Yes, indeed, the time you go to bed is the key. I sleep 6h a day. As long as I can wake up at 8h30-9h00, no problem at all. I just have some 'off sync' rhitm I guess. When I get in bed at 11 and wake up at 7, I am shit.
However, when I get in at 8PM and get up at 4AM, which is my mountain rhitm, I am doing fine as well. But then again, I had 8h of sleep 
I have to tell you however, it is a thin line. I normally go to bed at 2AM-3AM, during stress periods, i sometimes lay awake at 3.30/4.00AM, next day = zombiemode. Saturdays I sleep until 9-10AM, sunday i recharge batteries and sleep until 12AM, but bedtime is also 2-3-4AM.
A friend of mine tried the polyphasic sleep this summer. So he comes over and is bragging 'i am only sleeping 8 x 20 mins a day (or something like that), and i feel ok. To be honest, he looked like shit, pale and about to die. Some hours later he was falling asleep at the table all the time and then freaking out he had 'jumpstarted' a power nap and his cycle was fucked up. Some time later he went home and we didn't hear him for 2-3 days.
Anywayz, why the fuck would you need it anyway? I am quite pissed I am only falling asleep at 2-3AM, there is not much to do at night you know. And noone 'needs' 18h a day to get his shit done. Noone else is working that long, so unless you have 3 fulltime jobs, you can't do shit either. Well, might be handy if you are a fighter pilot flying 10k miles... or a secret NAVY SEAL or something...
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