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 Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2005 16:31 Post subject: |
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Won't work, im sure the n00bs will clock on and be good as gold for 20 posts then think they deserve a reward.
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2005 18:20 Post subject: |
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the problem with noobs requesting and generally ruining forums isnt going to go away by restricting them to a specific section for a set number of time or posts - I've seen other sites forums trying that out and the only thing it does do is stop people who were banned for spamming or abusing users/mods as an example from reregistering an account and doing the same thing 10 minutes later.
Noobs are an age old problem on every forum, maybe im being a little selfish because my post count isnt high on Nforce but Ive racked up 1000's of posts across other forums on the net, making for the most part constructive posts and never once been banned or even remotely flamed anyone, so yeah im a noob on this forum but im hardly the true definition of a noob the same goes for other newer users and members with lesser post counts.
whoKnows made the most valid points for me personally. Other than the points he made the site is becoming very slow to update new releases and occasionally releases arent listed as someone else pointed out, I presume thats why you listed the position of nfo updaters on the mainsite though.
Others have said this but alot of the requesting issues could be reduced simply by people not blurting out posts along the lines of downloading this one now/2 hours to go etc - gives some newer users the false impression that this site is more that just a public dupe check site and forum.
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Hunter
Site Admin
Posts: 70
Location: Ca.
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2005 18:31 Post subject: Good, now were getting somewhere |
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whoKnows, stepped up to the plate and hit a nice line drive, bringing in 3 points for our team. Well done!
Keep the creative juices flowing!
Because quite frankly this is your board not ours. The more suggestions you put in here, the better the final out come will be.
Now..Lets see if I'm getting this straight.
Kill the voting on the main page.
Release information has to be more proficient.
Rules:A general board set + A seperate sections set. (if required)
Moderators are not doing the job as well as they should be.
Limit newbies to a set number of posts before they are allowed full access.
Setup a NO REQUESTING IN FORUMS for the registration page
Possibly add a second page to the registration, with, I Will Abide By The Rules or I Will Be Banned..Agree-Dont Agree First time sign in.
Gaming Arena. Needs to be kept the Cleanist. (highest priority)
Ban Undesirables (1) warning, then immediately Ban.
OK....If I'm getting the jest of this, lemme know.
Thanks greatly to all whom have made suggestions. If I've not mentioned you by name, have no worries. I've thoroughly read each one. And thank you.
More More I tells ya 
Hunter
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Mar 2005 18:36 Post subject: |
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dont scrap the voting but improve it.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 00:06 Post subject: |
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First off all:
1.) Cut the 'communist' crap. Lately the mods have had the attitude of Stalin. You are with us, and can't have an opinion. I'm not pissed or so, but when there is a world news section, there are big discussions. And those were closed sometimes without a reason.
2.) At the other hand, when people do brake the rules, they are blocked for 1 day and then back. That is no punishment.
Second point:
3.) Well about the NFO updating. The new Updater Squad has arrived, but when they stay on 'trial' forever, the motivation goes away a bit. There should be a way to make them feel a bit 'special'. No rewarding, but a motivation. Maybe there should be a counter or so and some stats. Competition keeps it alive 
4.) I have no clue how to keep the IQ's <80 away here, but maybe a perm ban (or threatening to make their private info public, hehe :d) on really lame posts/requests, such as, 'this protectino sucks, fuck u reloaded' or 'blah, a clone cd', or 'look look im cool, i got the new game already'. or for example this: http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9078
5.) And the voting system is stupid idd, you'd better change it to 0 and 1, only 1 and 10s votes anyway
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 01:45 Post subject: |
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My suggestions would be:
-Change the voting system so that only users with more than 50 posts can vote, and maybe require a comment of more than two words.
-1 simple rule for users who dont follow the rules: 1st mistake=Temp ban, 2nd mistake (in a period of time, say a month) = Perm ban.
-Dont change anything for the newbies, just make a BIG WARNING in the registration process, like really big "we dont have warez here, no downloads whatsoever, no torrents, no links to warez, no illegal files, and if u request anything u get banned"... and make the newbie accept it to complete the reg.
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 08:54 Post subject: |
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| Injurious wrote: |
Also the whole atmosphere of the forum is kind of stale right now. It is basically dead. It’s been stale for few months now (about a week or two before the major holidays). Useless posts, flames, rubbish, double posts keep this forum alive in a weird distorted way. Game discussions eventually turn into who-has-a-better-system-is-elite-and-who-doesn't-is-a-poor-cock-sucker discussion and it’s annoying trying to read through 6 pages of text just to find out if a certain game is actually worth it  . |
You have no point. If you do not allow users to go off-topic, and even worse, punish them if they do, you will see many, many users, regulars included, deciding that it isn't worth their time to participate in a conversation where they cannot express their opinion. Same goes for flaming. It's unpleasant to read, and in a perfect world it would not exist outside of PM, but there are times when people make openly hostile points in the discussion, against both you and the points you constructed. The result can be one of three things - you can take it to PM, which will not restore you or your point to a proper standing, you can submit to the original poster, or you can express your opinion on said poster and the pile of rubble he/she wrote, a process referred to as flaming. I, for one, find that in the more intellectually-oriented (read: 17+ intelligent users) forums, flames tend not to be a series of bad retorts that involve people's mothers and dogs, or the words "h@xx0r" "n33wB" etc. but rather valid, constructive points geared at both constructing one's own theory and discrediting that of one's opponent. That motivation is the basis of all arguments that actually lead somewhere, rather then just being a polite exchange of keystrokes.
| Injurious wrote: | The rules here are strict but they aren't enforced as much as they should be. I don’t like the whole warning thing. If a user breaks the rule temp-ban them and give them time to cool off or right what they’ve wronged. Like the sig thing. That was fucking annoying.
A rule was broken and those who broke it debated it how it was unfair. That just, in my opinion, was unacceptable. It just shows that those who are here for a long time are given special privileges and have at least one get-out-of-jail-free card.  |
The "sig thing" was a thread. It was your choice to read it (or not to). It delivered what I believe to be a valid point, replied to by valid points. The fact that it argued a rule of the forum has no bearing on the issue. You can live in a free country and argue it's laws with other willing, intelligent people. I believe the same goes for the internet - you can be a member of an online community and disagree with a rule that community has - especially when those who are "offended" by the outcome your point suggests can remove the function entirely with two mouse-clicks.
| Injurious wrote: | Mods should be hard asses. They have the power and they should abuse it.  In my opinion nothing really needs changing just that mods need to be stricter than they are now.
I don’t care if there are too many rules to enforce. If a rule is broken then ban / temp ban. Once it’s in effect for a month users will think twice before they post and it’ll slowly turn into a paradise-like environment without a need for mods |
I have in the past respected your ironic, satirical statements as mere humor, but I cannot agree with this. There should be different levels of violation, and different limits as to how the moderators can retort. Just as in any civilized nation's legal system. Otherwise, things turn into chaos where, just as in a totalitarian system, those with power are those whose opinions stand, while all others are suppressed. Because people tend to leave totalitarian countries rather quickly. Wink. Wink.
| Injurious wrote: | Requesting can’t be stopped  but it can be ignored That’s why I think ‘newbies’ shouldn’t be allowed to post outside of the newbies section then it wouldn’t be the BIG problem it is now
Is it possible to lock away a certain portion of the forum from certain people? |
This would be counter-productive. Whatever else may be true, newbies sometimes are intelligent people, and sometimes make valid opinions. Locking them into what is destined to become the "spam" section of the forum would be comparable to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As a matter of fact, there are hundreds of forums out there, and most intelligent people are those with self-respect, thus the only ones willing to make a mandatory 10, 20, 100 posts in the "crapflood" section before being granted access to the forum, are either those who believe that it's all a conspiracy and the regular section contains lists of topsite ip's (expect a lot of "wh3r3 1s t3h w4r3z?!" comments from this camp), or those with the intention to crapflood, who'd be right at home in the first place. I, for one, would not go through 100, or even 20 posts, to have the "right" to post on a board the contents and members of which I do not know.
| Razor1394 wrote: | Injurious - Totally agreed. Many users are saying that some of us are to harsh. But if we wouldn't be this forum would result in anarchy. At the moment we are using 1. warning - temp ban - perm ban. In some occurences It's even 2. warning - temp ban - temp ban again - perm ban. Personally I would like it 3. temp ban - perm ban.
And yes those users who complain of them being banned annoys me a lot. They did break rules many of them several times and they are bitching about it and saying that we mods are assholes. I'm 99% sure they wouldn't do a better job themselves. |
One main point is missing here, and I've said this before. When somebody asks where they can download warez, or even worse, gives a link, there is a remote chance that a sufficiently motivated agency would be able to shut you down on that. I did not, do not, and will not think that having 10 extra pixels at the bottom of my posts will have the same "grave" effect, especially considering sig nuking. Thus, if a request does warrant a ban, an incorrectly proportioned sig certainly does not. Nobody is suggesting allowing 800x600 sigs - that would be annoying. But I think that the grade school system of "100, not a pixel more" is obsolete. Most of us are responsible adults, and as such, could comfortably operate within margins of 60-150 px sig height, and those of us who cannot, can easily nuke them. Similar arguments can be made for the other minor rules that we are discussing banning for. As I see it, "ban" should be applied only to three situations:
1. Requesting/Forum-threatening users: If the user threatens the existance of the forum, they should be removed.
2. Trolling/Excessively Annoying users: If somebody begins acting like a kiddy - making statements that flame without giving a valid point, acting childish (genuinely childish, not making valid points against the general opinion), and does not stop after warning, more severe measures could be taken.
3. Excessive breaking of rules - I'll use the convenient sig rule again - if someone has a sig that is 300px in height, and replies to mod requests to size it down to a reasonable size with "fuck off", that would warrant more severe measures.
In all other cases, a civil solution is possible, I feel. If we begin treating this forum with the "you're not right unless youre @" attitude of IRC, we will have the same tendency of IRC users - switching to alternative boards, frivolously. Those making points to the contrary, should also understand that this isn't the only board on the web, and the fect that some users have self-respect - something that will cause them to quit the forum if sufficiently denigrated by it's authorities. I, for one, would not be capable to return to this board were I banned, if only because I've much dignity to be treated as a dog and come back to be kicked a second time.
| spankie wrote: | | I have no clue how to keep the IQ's <80 away here, but maybe a perm ban (or threatening to make their private info public, hehe :d) on really lame posts/requests, such as, 'this protectino sucks, fuck u reloaded' or 'blah, a clone cd', or 'look look im cool, i got the new game already'. or for example this: http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9078 |
Your suggestion is illegal, and immoral besides. The only method to keep dumb people away, in my opinion, is to oppress stupidity. Instate an honor system. Promote those who consistently make valid, reinforced points, and demote those who needlessly act like children.
Allow me to elaborate on an example:
Let's say you have a system that gives merit, a system of 1-10 reputation.
1 - You are locked into the useless void section of the forum.
2 - The starting point for new users. You're allowed access to all areas of the general forums, but you cannot make 2 posts in a row in the same thread, and are only one point away from the pit of 1.
3 - Allowed a bit more access, allowed to vote, still not allowed to begin threads. Now allowed to have a sig.
4 - Just 1 honor point higher than 3, no privileges.
5 - This is where you should be by the time you've made your first 100 valid posts. At this time, you should be allowed to create new threads.
6 - Just a buffer for the 5 (you can be demoted from 6 and still retain the 5 privileges)
7. You're not as closely monitored. You can now double-post (in case you have 2 valid points you MUST express seperately, for whatever reason.) You're now allowed access to the "honor" or elite forum, where only 7+ can post, but all may read. This is the basic status a regular should attain. Of course, excessive abuse = demotion.
8. A buffer for 7.
9. A buffer for 8.
10. At this point, you should be granted Slashdot-esque mod points, i.e. you have the ability to delete, move threads etc. Abuse of this can result in permanent demotion, but those who constantly contribute effective moderation, might be considered for Mod status.
Of course, that's just one option. There are millions. And of course there will be those re-regging to get their 2 back. Those who do this more than once, should be ip-banned. But in any case, you mods now have at least 1 viable option for a reform of the forum into a better place for all, or at the very least an idea to work with - and a few points for consideration.[/list]
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 16:44 Post subject: |
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spankie wrote:
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I have no clue how to keep the IQ's <80 away here, but maybe a perm ban (or threatening to make their private info public, hehe :d) on really lame posts/requests, such as, 'this protectino sucks, fuck u reloaded' or 'blah, a clone cd', or 'look look im cool, i got the new game already'. or for example this: http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9078
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Your suggestion is illegal, and immoral besides. The only method to keep dumb people away, in my opinion, is to oppress stupidity. Instate an honor system. Promote those who consistently make valid, reinforced points, and demote those who needlessly act like children.
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What can be illegal in bannig people on a public forum anyway?
If they want to ban me perm for no reason they can. It is only a forum after all.
But they won't ban you for no reason, so it can't be illegal for sure...
Point 2, who that wants to make a public internet forum a case of pride and rankings, should start looking for something irl . Why make the forum with levels etc. Get your star attitude in your job or in college...
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 19:28 Post subject: |
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It's a method of moderation and will come naturally. It's not like there will be people dumb enough to stay up at night thinking "I gotta hit 10! I gotta hit 10!". It's a system that rewards regulars for their contributions, and should be implied as actively or as passively as those contributions are made.
And as for the questionable legality, I was referring to revealing their personal information. Not banning them.
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| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2005 20:41 Post subject: |
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| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | | Jenni wrote: | All the mods are gay, but I'm female so it's all good.
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even me??? |
haha now thats funny...all the mods are gay ha
I think people should compare this site to ISONEWS to see why Nforce kills it! |
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 05:45 Post subject: |
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Okay heres a couple of ideas on how I would think the site could be improved.
How about forum ROE (rules of engagment)?
Yes I frequent a military forum. How this works is thus:
The moderators rather than just have the option to ban can award forum roe points. Their system is quite basic but I think it can be improved on.
What happens is the forum users have a maximum of say 500 points before they're banned. The mods can give out points for abuse or other reasons. I would say for this forum give a max of 200 points. If they break say 150 points they're removed from the forum for say a week, break 170 points and they're gone for a month. Reach 200 points and it's a perm ban. The mods can award say 50 points for requesting, or 70 points for abuse. The details of their ROE points would be displayed under their name or avatar.
I would also like to see a rep point system installed for the voting system. Anyone can award rep points. On another site I used to go on they had a small button where you could add rep points to another member or remove them for a bad post. Once a persons rep made it to a certain amount then they would be able to vote on the front page.
Both of these systems would be easy to install, php has them already out.
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 10:38 Post subject: |
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With Invision Power Board you can give out "Warnings"
There you give out % warning..
So when you reach 100% you're banned..
g00d and easy..
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 12:29 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 17:23 Post subject: |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 18:07 Post subject: |
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This forum is great,
without Mchart pestering these forums, it would be even better.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2005 18:20 Post subject: |
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he's not that bad there are worse people on here, he's just a little monotonal 
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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Hunter
Site Admin
Posts: 70
Location: Ca.
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| Posted: Sun, 20th Mar 2005 04:30 Post subject: Members: A communities Heart and Soul |
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A note from me to you all.
Some of the older members have a great deal to offer. Most all of you have seen what has happened to this community over the past 10 months or so. I'd like to take this oppertunity to thank you for hanging around keeping this place...well alive. To you new members, I'd like to say. I found your comments within this thread quite interesting, and since your actually new to this community, your thoughts and suggestions were surprizingly good. It's not offen you find relitively new members that have a good grasp of what would work better(well) in a community such as this one.
A short, sharp smack to those guests whom like to come to this community day after day, hour after hour, but refuse or are un-willing to join us. Please join in...we wont bite...(well hard anyways). The simple and sad fact is, that you'll force me to close the board to guests altogether.
Now on with the show!
Release information has to be more proficient.
Rules:A general board set + A seperate sections set. (if required)
Moderators are not doing the job as well as they should be.
Limit newbies to a set number of posts before they are allowed full access.
Adding a point system. Where as a set number of points will be granted to all(starting amount not known yet). But newbies will be set 1/10th of full members points.
A ranking system will also be a possible solution or it will be applied along with point system.
I will setup guide lines for Moderators to follow. This post wont be made public due to the fact I'll probly catch some flack from them(Mods).
Setup a NO REQUESTING IN FORUMS for the registration page
Possibly add a second page to the registration, with, I Will Abide By The Rules or I Will Be Banned..Agree-Dont Agree First time sign in.
Gaming Arena. Needs to be kept the Cleanist. (highest priority)
Ban Undesirables (1) warning, then immediately Ban.
There will be no further suggestions accepted about the voting system..This has been explained to members before...sorry
StarShine | Quote: | | the problem with that is its counter productive, you'll get alot of people simply spamming with smileys to increase their post count so they can get access to the main forums and the real newbs that would request are just gonna post their requests in the newb section instead. Within no time you would have an absolute mess of a sub forum, whereas at the moment the Newbies and FAQs subforum serves a purpose and is used by some of the nicer members to welcome people to the site it would become the sort of place thats gonna be hard to moderate and you wouldnt want to wade through the crap just to welcome in users. As far as moderating a sub forum like that goes it compares to flushing a toilet you should have a button that wipes clear the entire sub forum or posts of a certain age every few days as from experience moderating that sort of section at any level becomes pointless. |
OK..as for this statement. Because of the new attitude this community will have(hopefully), there will be very little spaming. Also...There will be no flaming of newbies or members alike. No one should be subjected to humiliation, anger or rudeness. There are many reasons for this type of rule. But I look at it this way. It's not acceptable in your own house, so why should I(we) accept it in ours?
spankie | Quote: | 1.) Cut the 'communist' crap. Lately the mods have had the attitude of Stalin. You are with us, and can't have an opinion. I'm not pissed or so, but when there is a world news section, there are big discussions. And those were closed sometimes without a reason.
2.) At the other hand, when people do brake the rules, they are blocked for 1 day and then back. That is no punishment. |
In your first statement about the Mods. This issue will be delt with via their new guide lines. Your second will be addressed when the adjustments to the rules and forum settings take affect. Your third...Please PM me here or on EFnet..abit of thought will tell you who I am there. Thanks.
Accelleron | Quote: | | You have no point. If you do not allow users to go off-topic, and even worse, punish them if they do, you will see many, many users, regulars included, deciding that it isn't worth their time to participate in a conversation where they cannot express their opinion. Same goes for flaming. It's unpleasant to read, and in a perfect world it would not exist outside of PM, but there are times when people make openly hostile points in the discussion, against both you and the points you constructed. The result can be one of three things - you can take it to PM, which will not restore you or your point to a proper standing, you can submit to the original poster, or you can express your opinion on said poster and the pile of rubble he/she wrote, a process referred to as flaming. I, for one, find that in the more intellectually-oriented (read: 17+ intelligent users) forums, flames tend not to be a series of bad retorts that involve people's mothers and dogs, or the words "h@xx0r" "n33wB" etc. but rather valid, constructive points geared at both constructing one's own theory and discrediting that of one's opponent. That motivation is the basis of all arguments that actually lead somewhere, rather then just being a polite exchange of keystrokes. |
Actually your statement confirms what Injurious wrote in the long run. There has to be a line drawn where personal comments about someone cannot be permitted. ie;Flaming. I agree that "heated" discussions are valid. But and I will stress this point, not inside a thread that has nothing to do with the original topic of said thread. This is unwanted behaviour. If and when it does occur, it should/will be delt with by a Moderator. The argument can and should be moved to the correct forum, where it belongs. Keeping the threads clean of crap will improve the community overall.
| Quote: | | I have in the past respected your ironic, satirical statements as mere humor, but I cannot agree with this. There should be different levels of violation, and different limits as to how the moderators can retort. Just as in any civilized nation's legal system. Otherwise, things turn into chaos where, just as in a totalitarian system, those with power are those whose opinions stand, while all others are suppressed. Because people tend to leave totalitarian countries rather quickly. Wink. Wink. |
As you probably noticed, I skipped over the sig comment. And you came back to it again later on in your post. Believe me when I say, I dont want to get into that discussion, nor would you want me to. Now as for what you said here. Alot of these concerns will eliminated and others along those same lines. Moderators are just people, just as Admins are too, we arent infallible. Moderators make mistakes, "make the wrong call" and when this happens it should be understood by all. By setting up guide lines for them to fallow, plus their use of common sence, there can come nothing but good overall. Most everything else you've said has been covered by my above statements or thoughts. Except this. | Quote: | | In all other cases, a civil solution is possible, I feel. If we begin treating this forum with the "you're not right unless youre @" attitude of IRC, we will have the same tendency of IRC users - switching to alternative boards, frivolously. Those making points to the contrary, should also understand that this isn't the only board on the web, and the fect that some users have self-respect - something that will cause them to quit the forum if sufficiently denigrated by it's authorities. I, for one, would not be capable to return to this board were I banned, if only because I've much dignity to be treated as a dog and come back to be kicked a second time. |
Your absolutely right. I had to quote this because it needs to be read by those that it concerns, and you know who you are.
Jenni | Quote: | How about forum ROE (rules of engagment)?Yes I frequent a military forum. How this works is thus:
The moderators rather than just have the option to ban can award forum roe points. Their system is quite basic but I think it can be improved on.
What happens is the forum users have a maximum of say 500 points before they're banned. The mods can give out points for abuse or other reasons. I would say for this forum give a max of 200 points. If they break say 150 points they're removed from the forum for say a week, break 170 points and they're gone for a month. Reach 200 points and it's a perm ban. The mods can award say 50 points for requesting, or 70 points for abuse. The details of their ROE points would be displayed under their name or avatar.I would also like to see a rep point system installed for the voting system. Anyone can award rep points. On another site I used to go on they had a small button where you could add rep points to another member or remove them for a bad post. Once a persons rep made it to a certain amount then they would be able to vote on the front page. |
Your suggestions have been taken to heart. I have asked our guru to look into doing a couple variations of both. I'm not to sure wether to give members active participation in the good post/bad post scenario. The way the boards attitude is at the moment, I dont think it would be wise. Basically I would be willing to allow this in the future and would hope it wouldnt be abused. Thanks for the ideas.
Oppolgize for the lenght of time this thread has been down(so to speak) my personal life became rather hectic today leaving me very little time in which to write.
A final note:
I Thank you, to all whom took the time to write in responce to my question(s). Alot of excellent excellent suggestions and idea's floated around in here. I think I have a good grasp of the general views. I know not every member has spoken their peace in this thread, but I would venture to guess that alot of you agree with what has been. And of course if more are out there willing to add their two cents in, then post away. But I would like them to be NEW ideas/suggestions, not a repeat of whats been said already, by myself or others. If you have a rhetorical point of veiw about whats been said, please post.
I would also hope that you(our members) will give us the time needed to implement all the nessessary changes. But I would also ask you all to start practicing some of the things that has been said here. If we want to live in a clean house, then the dirt must be left outside(if ya's catch my drift). It really would go along way to show how, when a community such as this get together anything is possible.
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See guys, even "newbies" can have a decent idea 
