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TSR69
Banned
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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 Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:37 Post subject: Can religion peacefully coexist with science? |
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I am declined to say yes.
Last edited by TSR69 on Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:43; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:39 Post subject: |
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TSR69
Banned
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:44 Post subject: |
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my bad
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:47 Post subject: |
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TSR69
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:50 Post subject: |
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/end Mister_s
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 21:53 Post subject: |
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only if the god of the gaps will find a better loophole than ignorance.
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TSR69
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:03 Post subject: |
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Well you can't deny there are religious people on this globe, I started this thread to see if we can come to some mutual agreement.
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ixigia
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:06 Post subject: |
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The main question is not whether religion can peacefully coexist with science or not, but instead whether this thread will beat the Hawking on God thread 
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zipfero
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:06 Post subject: |
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and who would you have to talk to then?
The dalai lama only talks at conventions where he gets paid.
The pope only talks to dictators and royal blood.
new age and wiccan people have no leaders.
And all the reigious fruitcakes who take their shit seriously will not listen anyways, because it has not been commanded in their scripture! |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:09 Post subject: |
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It is an interesting topic, and the way religion people are becoming more and more extreme (in part due to them feeling as being "attacked" by the facts presented by science). Interestingly, the early science came from religious personae from Islam and Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam
But do honestly you see any science from Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? Taliban? Al Quaeda? Vatican? Nutcase christian evangelists in USA? Hassidi Jews?
I can attest from here in Israel, religious schools refuse to teach simple math and physics !! Instead of becoming more educated, religions seem to be going backwards toward medieval times. And is it surprising? At these times they had the most control over ignorant people, so a few scientists discovering truths were not as problematic. So of course everything modern scares them and "comes from the devil", because it might open people's minds.
This is of course not true about all religious people, there are many who view scripture as spiritual text and not historical evidence, and do not fear science and its theories. These people do not view science as "from the devil".
So can religions coexist peacefully with science? Sure, we've seen it in the past.
Can modern religions coexist peacefully? I don't see it happening.
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Lutzifer
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Nalo
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:13 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 07:01; edited 2 times in total
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Rofl_Mao
Posts: 3187
Location: Nederland
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:23 Post subject: |
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| Lutzifer wrote: | | Iran has actually an enormous amount of scientific paper output in the last years. |
They have?! That's news to me.
I guess that's the result of our right wing politicians constantly bashing islamic countries. "Iran would be a backward islamic country and should be bombed" etc.
| Lopin18 wrote: | I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.  |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:24 Post subject: |
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yup, both the secularization and the amount of scientific papers took my by surprise, because i had been propaghandized into thinking differently
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:24 Post subject: |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:31 Post subject: |
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TSR69
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:49 Post subject: |
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Hmm you read 'babel-17' ?
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 22:55 Post subject: |
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nope. I have a lot of sci-fi but not this particular book.
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Hierofan
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 23:45 Post subject: |
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 Spoiler: | brool story co |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Oct 2010 23:58 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Scientific output has grown 11 times faster in Iran than the world average, faster than any other country. |
But you have to take into consideration the earlier output. If they published one paper in 2003 and now publish seven, that's an enormous growth, but they didn't output much to begin with.
| Quote: | | Publications in nuclear engineering grew 250 times faster than the world average |
And that's quite expected seeing as Iran has put every effort possible into getting it's nuclear program up and running.
And no, Ahmadinejad isn't pushing for a secular Iran, he's trying to hold the process back (with varied success). He was after all placed in power by Ali Khamenei, the one with the real power.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:08 Post subject: |
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thats the thing. It makes perfect sense to use secularization to help his position by reducing the power that religion has on the appointing of the president.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:10 Post subject: |
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He's supported by the islamic powers in Iran afaik. Wouldn't supporting secularization weaken his position?
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:16 Post subject: |
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i remember him having issues with islamic circles, when it came to his re-election last year. So, even though he comes from a religious hardliner background, it seems the love for each other is not as happily ever after as it seemed in the beginning.
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Frant
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:20 Post subject: |
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| Lutzifer wrote: | | thats the thing. It makes perfect sense to use secularization to help his position by reducing the power that religion has on the appointing of the president. |
Uhm, are you saying Ahmadinejad somehow changed his personality and ambitions, now fighting against the institution that put him in power in the first place? Besides, it's Khamenei and the clergy that have the real power in Iran, Ahmadinejad is little more than a figurehead.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:22 Post subject: |
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i say, somebody else is saying it (=> see the above article. ) and i m saying it, that it does make at least some sense. And it also ties in well with religion vs. science (wanting nucular power vs. having religious power).
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:36 Post subject: |
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I've always been one to take shortcuts, give me nukes, plenty of them, and I'll give you world peace.
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chiv
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:38 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Oct 2010 00:41 Post subject: |
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See the South Park episode where Cartman travels to a future with 'no religion'.
Unless the human mind evolves, even if you remove 'religion' you'll still have dick riding in other forms.
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LeoNatan
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