I remember FISKER_Q's comment in particular, naming the SP campaign as the most innovative ever.
Well the SP campaign reminds me alot of Wing Commander, i haven't seen that in any other RTS (although i haven't played alot of RTS in these past few years)
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Yeah, well maybe you should. The game is pretty good and the campaign structure is similar.
I don't play that many rts'es anymore. I play StarCraft 2 because i absolutely love the story. Thats why i love the first one, while 90% love the thing for the multiplayer i'm the lone nut that suck at multilayer but loved the SP-campaign of the first one.
So perhaps i'll check it out at some point but i'm not in a hurry to.
Heh, well DoW isn't really an RTS. It's more of a tactical game - and is sort of story-driven. Chaos Rising (the expansion) is even better in that regard.
Heh, well DoW isn't really an RTS. It's more of a tactical game - and is sort of story-driven. Chaos Rising (the expansion) is even better in that regard.
Oh well then sorry but not interested. I recognize that tactics play big part of StarCraft but thats not what draws me to it.
Uh, what. There's no tactics at all in Starcraft, apart from which mix of units to use.
You don't micro at all? Selecting certain units and microing them is very tactical. I'm not good enough to micro very well yet so I'm all about macro and pumping drones/units so yeah, for me there's little tactics in sc2, but on a higher lvl I'd say there are buttloads of tactical decisions. Also what vurt said.
Yeah, well maybe you should. The game is pretty good and the campaign structure is similar.
I don't play that many rts'es anymore. I play StarCraft 2 because i absolutely love the story. Thats why i love the first one, while 90% love the thing for the multiplayer i'm the lone nut that suck at multilayer but loved the SP-campaign of the first one.
So perhaps i'll check it out at some point but i'm not in a hurry to.
Nope you're no lone nut. I'm in the same boat. Suck at multiplayer so hard I rarely try it
Still need to buy SC2 though (I swear retailers upped the price over the weekend :/ )
Resource building RTS like SC2 forgive errors, while more tactical RTS without resources are far less forgiving. That's why I prefer SC2 over some other games.
Uh, what. There's no tactics at all in Starcraft, apart from which mix of units to use.
Tactics != Strategy
Quote:
The third tier of military planning is strategic, which is concerned with the overall means and plan for achieving a long-term outcome. Operational warfare is thus an intermediate level in which the aim is to convert the strategy (highest level) into tactics (lowest level of planning)
Specialized tactics exist for many situations, ranging from securing a room or individual building, to large-scale operations such as establishing air superiority over a region. Today, military tactics are employed at all levels of command, from individual and group, up to entire armed forces.
Indeed, the units used in warfare have always been a reflection of current military tactics, and their size and composition have varied accordingly.
Most people, including some people who are otherwise well-acquainted with military vocabulary, incorrectly use the words "strategy" and "tactics" more or less interchangeably.
I got me 50€s and was thinking about buying SC2 next week. Then I got a guest pass and burrowed me an account from a friend afterwards to get deeper into the game. I played a dozen of matches with my other buddies who bought it. We went from copper to gold pretty decently fast in 3on3. Even though, I got bored as quickly because of the RockPaperScissor style and I'm sure that I won't buy it atm. Now I decided to spent 20€ for "Company of Heroes - Anthology" which suits me far better than SC2. Don't get me wrong, SC2 is an awesome game and almost as balanced as SC was. Campaign is great and the editor promises a shiny future and hopefully some awesome offsprings like AoS/DotA again. Maybe I'll pick it up later but for now I think the CoH-Anthology is a far better deal if you wan't more than a Counter/CounterCounter/CounterCounterCounter experience. But if you like this style of RockPaperScissor RTS or being an diehard Starcraft fan, you should go for it. There is nothing better out there atm in this kind of RTS games imho.
Anyways, I hope they hurry up with the expansions. I wan't to know what's happening next in the campaign's story
Mostly because I wanna know who that friggin DarkVoice is. I have some speculations but I wan't proof
Yes, it's quite understandable that you are confused from concepts such as ground cover and unit formation.
Sorry, but for SC2 (and Blizzard RTS generally) this one sound stupid. Quality of this game lies in simplicity, polished experience and balanced gameplay.
OK so I never played Starcraft before and started playing Starcraft 2.
It is nice (animations, textures, mission design) but there are some things that really annoy me:
+ Why no formations? This would've been very helpful as some units like to stand INSIDE of each other. Units with long range should stay in the back and the others in front.
+ When you have ~20 units attacking a building then some of them attack and stay right on their place and the other 15 try to get around them to attack the target at the exact same distance... You can't imagine how stupid that looks and how ineffective this is...
+ At least in the single player mode it would have been nice to pause the game and give a queue of stuff to do, as the camera cant zoom out much and you have to jump around on the mini map like crazy to catch up with your units.
+ Selecting units can sometimes be a big pain in the ass.
---
This aren't things that would make the game more but would give you a bigger control over the masses.
F.e. I had a couple of those RCs with flamethrowers and sent them to my base. The repair units were intelligent enough to come and repair them (nice). But then I send out my units to attack (and I just select my group with RCs!) but the idiotic repair robots follow them outside, though I did never give them the order to be attached to my group :/
Still a very nice game. At the moment it would deserve 8/10
This is the most innovative RTS ever with the best balance and longevity, now I said it so stfu already!
BS, at least not in terms of gameplay (C&C, Total Annihilation). Also SC is not the first RTS with a great story (Red Alert). Battle.net was first used in Diablo. SC is just a good mix, but not very innovative in any particular area.
you should stop getting sucked in by dezztroys trolling lol.
QFT. repeating the same thing for 40 pages doesn't make it any more true. You have your opinion and we have ours. Lets just agree to disagree. Or maybe you can go watch some replays of korean play and see how micro/tactics play a huge part in this game (putting marauder in front of marines, for example, when).
PumpAction wrote:
OK so I never played Starcraft before and started playing Starcraft 2.
It is nice (animations, textures, mission design) but there are some things that really annoy me:
+ Why no formations? This would've been very helpful as some units like to stand INSIDE of each other. Units with long range should stay in the back and the others in front.
Yeah I find this really annoying too, Back in SC1 there is a mechanism in called magic boxes. basically if you arrange your units, select them, then click outside an invisible box around the units, they will move and stop in formation. If you click inside the box, they will all try to get to that spot. See a more detailed explanation here.
But now, while units move in formation when you click outside the magic box, they always want to swarm together when arriving at your destination.. atm I deal with it by press s (stop) before they swarm up if I want them in a certain position... moving into attack seem to be less a problem because they remain in formation until they start attacking.
PumpAction wrote:
+ When you have ~20 units attacking a building then some of them attack and stay right on their place and the other 15 try to get around them to attack the target at the exact same distance... You can't imagine how stupid that looks and how ineffective this is...
yeah units are dumb and wont move closer to their target on A move. It's kept from since SC1 for better unit control. You'll learn to love it once you realize how to exploit it. For example, your marines outrange zerg roaches. If your Zerg opponent rushes you in 1v1 with zerglings and roachs, you can just sit your marines behind your blocked entrance (something you should probably always do when going against Zergs), and attack move them towards the zerg. Your marines will stop the second roachs are in range, but roachs wont be able to hit back because they are blocked by your buildings at the choke.
A way to make the attack go smoother in your example, is to quickly click move between attacks. Very few units have a continuous attack in SC, so between every attack, you can issue a move command to move them closer to your target, then quickly issue a attack move command after. This allows you to move between attacks so that more of your units can fire on the target, while not wasting any DPS.
PumpAction wrote:
+ At least in the single player mode it would have been nice to pause the game and give a queue of stuff to do, as the camera cant zoom out much and you have to jump around on the mini map like crazy to catch up with your units.
+ Selecting units can sometimes be a big pain in the ass.
---
This aren't things that would make the game more but would give you a bigger control over the masses.
F.e. I had a couple of those RCs with flamethrowers and sent them to my base. The repair units were intelligent enough to come and repair them (nice). But then I send out my units to attack (and I just select my group with RCs!) but the idiotic repair robots follow them outside, though I did never give them the order to be attached to my group :/
yeah zooming around and selecting units can be a pain. But not if you use hotkeys! Always hotkey your production facility (I usually hotkey command center to 4 so that I can always zoom to it when I need to, and also for easy SCV building). I then hotkey barracks at 5, factory at 6, starport at 7. Remember you can select more than one building at a time so you can press 5, then build marines from ALL your barracks and then go do something else.
I find that when I use hotkeys, it's much easier to move around the map, I rarely have to click on the minimap anymore (for scans, mostly) because most of the places Im interested in are hotkey, and thus can be accessed really fast.
Quality of this game lies in simplicity, polished experience and balanced gameplay.
Not for me it doesn't. Most if not all console ports are quality by your description.
Nice twist of words there, Leo. He said simplicity AND polished experience AND balanced gameplay make a quality game, which it is imho. I'll even add the story to that list which makes it quality for me.
In your words simplicity (as in consolified port) would mean quality, world of difference there.
"YARR! We be stealin' yer games an plundrin' yer gold!" sez the pirate.
Quality of this game lies in simplicity, polished experience and balanced gameplay.
Not for me it doesn't. Most if not all console ports are quality by your description.
He is talking about multiplayer I think. And in this case I agree with him. I don't know many console ports with polished and balanced multiplayer. And there are lot of things you have to micro and macro manage anyway as is. if they were to add features people were talking about it would be unplayable for beginners like me or many other.
The game just plays awkwardly to be honest. Again, call me spoiled, but why'd they have to take out the cover system? They should have built on that and implemented a better cover system.
But as it is, the game is still the same Starcraft from the last millennium wherein the better player is the one who can build the fastest route to getting top tier units. Not that appealing to be honest.
Quality of this game lies in simplicity, polished experience and balanced gameplay.
Not for me it doesn't. Most if not all console ports are quality by your description.
Nice twist of words there, Leo. He said simplicity AND polished experience AND balanced gameplay make a quality game, which it is imho. I'll even add the story to that list which makes it quality for me.
In your words simplicity (as in consolified port) would mean quality, world of difference there.
I didn't twist words, this is how I understood it. It's simple, it's polished and it's balanced, so it's quality. For me this is not enough. Why does a game have to be simple? To sell more? That's not my concern. Pardon my need for something more than simplicity and a rehash of decade-old gameplay in order to call something quality.
Someone I talked to on Skype said my mistake with the approach to SC2 was comparing it to other games. Well what a crock of bullshit is that argument? Of course I compare it; I compare every aspect of every game to other "similar" games I enjoy and see how that particular one fares in comparison, and sadly this fares very poorly aside from polish and the visual presentation, which are important, but not that much when the rest are so bad.
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but would give you a bigger control over the masses.
