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 Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:10 Post subject: |
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What a load of crap this ppu is. I would rather have a multiprocessor system than a limited second cpu only capable of processing physics. I hope the major population doesn't fall for the hype but thinks about this for a bit.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:18 Post subject: |
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| Nubman wrote: | | What a load of crap this ppu is. I would rather have a multiprocessor system than a limited second cpu only capable of processing physics. I hope the major population doesn't fall for the hype but thinks about this for a bit. |
Nubman ten years ago - " What a load of crap this GPU is. I would rather have a pentium II system than a limited second CPU only capable of processing graphical data! I hope the major population pisses on 3dfx's innovative idea, and I hope gaming stays in with the days of monster truck madness."
You seem to miss the point that a PPU, just like a GPU, would take all the work of physics processing away from the CPU, and would then on top of that be capable of doing more advanced physical type effects without any extra processing.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:26 Post subject: |
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No it's not the same thing at all. Gpu is usefull on every game that uses 3d gfx. PPU is only usefull in games that would use it to make their physics engine work. I'm sure a second cpu could make any current physics engine run without any problems AND it could do a shitload of other things on top of that and not be limited like the ppu is.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:28 Post subject: |
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| Nubman wrote: | | No it's not the same thing at all. Gpu is usefull on every game that uses 3d gfx. PPU is only usefull in games that would use it to make their physics engine work. I'm sure a second cpu could make any current physics engine run without any problems AND it could do a shitload of other things on top of that and not be limited like the ppu is. |
No, No, And No.
People like you said the same thing when true 3d graphics cards came out on the market, I find it pretty funny that your saying the same for this. It is EXACTLY the same. And NO a second normal CPU of the sorts for your normal computer would NOT help anything. YES you would have more normal processing power, but you would NOT be able to have dedicated phyiscal computations using special instruction sets to make things go faster. If you did, then it would be a PPU anyways. And your point would be moot, so what this boils down to in the end is that you are completely wrong to think that a PPU would be worthless. The End.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:33 Post subject: |
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Haha. There's nothing special about calculating physics that a normal processor couldn't do. It's all about processing power. And it's better to have a processor that can do more than just physics.
Propably it doesn't even matter. People don't like physics as the sales of simulations tell you.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:35 Post subject: |
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Here, I will be nice and quickly explain something to you.
Currently in games with physics, lets use HL2 for example, it uses havoc physics. The havoc physics engine takes what the game engine feeds it in different values for the objects, then computes what needs to be changed, etc.. All of this is being done on your normal CPU mind you. BUT here is where the problem lies, there are no special instructions on a x86 based chipset that let it easily compute these geometric in nature type calculations, so the CPU is spending more time working. If you put in a PPU, then you can easily give it its own special instruction sets so it can easily process these type of things, just like a GPU does.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:36 Post subject: |
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| Nubman wrote: | Haha. There's nothing special about calculating physics that a normal processor couldn't do. It's all about processing power. And it's better to have a processor that can do more than just physics.
Propably it doesn't even matter. People don't like physics as the sales of simulations tell you. |
It is very fucking special that a PPU could carry an instruction set which allows it to find some obscure value of some shape faster then if it didnt.
NOTE TO MODS AND THOSE WHO CARE, VERBAL ABUSE BELOW THIS LINE.
You sir are unfit for life, and you should ask your mother if she can abort your ass.
I tried to be nice, I tried to explain this to you, but you obviously know jack shit.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:41 Post subject: |
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| Mchart wrote: |
NOTE TO MODS AND THOSE WHO CARE, VERBAL ABUSE BELOW THIS LINE.
You sir are unfit for life, and you should ask your mother if she can abort your ass.
I tried to be nice, I tried to explain this to you, but you obviously know jack shit. |
You know what they say... if you can't attack the arqument attack the person behind it.
Doesn't sound like you know a lot yourself: "It is very fucking special that a PPU could carry an instruction set which allows it to find some obscure value of some shape faster then if it didnt."
Last edited by Nubman on Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:43; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:43 Post subject: |
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| Nubman wrote: | | Mchart wrote: |
NOTE TO MODS AND THOSE WHO CARE, VERBAL ABUSE BELOW THIS LINE.
You sir are unfit for life, and you should ask your mother if she can abort your ass.
I tried to be nice, I tried to explain this to you, but you obviously know jack shit. |
You know what they say... if you can't attack the arqument attack the person behind it. |
I wrote almost 2 pages worth of stuff on this trying to break it through to you, but you still sit there like an ape scratching his head. I also love how you say that the speed of a CPU is all that matters. When you said that, every miniscule amount of credibility you had went down the shitter.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 00:48 Post subject: |
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| Mchart wrote: | | I wrote almost 2 pages worth of stuff on this trying to break it through to you, but you still sit there like an ape scratching his head. |
What can I say... I like to think with my own brain rather than go with the hype...
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Supino
Posts: 699
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 13:01 Post subject: |
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McHart, I hate to agree with you. It kills me. But in this case, you are correct. Allow me to take what you've been saying for the past 2 days and attempt to break it through Nubman's thick skull:
the way a processing unit (i.e. a computer chip designed to handle a particular function, and thereby unite other processing chips) works, is through an instruction set - think of it as a certain vocabulary - that relates to the function it is designed to execute. Allow me to give some examples:
A CPU is designed to make many simple calculations in a short amount of time. That is why it has an instruction set that includes variables like "and" "or" "not" "plus" "minus" "multiply" etc. (not actual vars, just examples). Using the vocabulary given to it, it is good at making simple decisions, such as those pertaining to AI.
A GPU has a set of variables suited to processing graphics information. It has variables like "polygon", "texture", "shader" etc. so to draw a shaded polygon, it would need to process "polygon + texture + shader = x", whereas the CPU would need to process something more like the following to achieve the same result.
"pixel AND pixel AND pixel AND pixel AND pixel = newvar"Polygon"; color511123 AND color62331 AND color9231 AND color31513 = newvar"Texture"; brightness_reduction="2" AND brightness_reduction="1" AND brightness_reduction="0" AND brightness_reduction="3" AND brightness_reduction="4" = newvar"Shader"; Texture + Polygon + Shader = x"
As you can clearly see, the GPU is a lot better at handling graphics than is the processor, not because of raw power, but rather because of the specialized vocabulary that it has, that is suited to the task.
PPU is the same scenario: A dedicated chip (be it add-on, or on the motherboard) would easily handle physics calculations with a short string, whereas the CPU, which is unsuited for the task, needs a long-ass string to achieve the same result. Result: the PPU can be less powerful than the CPU and still handle more objects.
Another comparison: Take a doctor, a lawyer, and a hacker. Make any of them do one of the others' jobs, and they would suck at it, their work would be inefficient and take longer than needed, the result would be poor, and the capabilities would be limited. If you compare the hacker to the GPU, the doctor to the PPU, and the lawyer to the CPU, we now have a lawyer performing brain surgery in our computer... the result is disasterously inefficient. By putting a PPU in the computer, we would allow each chip to perform the job it is best suited for.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 13:29 Post subject: |
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You know what Accelleron, I don't think nubman cares.
Don't waste your time.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Dunge
Posts: 1201
Location: Québec
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 21:34 Post subject: |
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What im wondering is if these people said the same things about GPU's when they were being introduced.
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Supino
Posts: 699
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Mar 2005 22:27 Post subject: |
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I for one think that a PPU (Physic Processing Unit) seems like a very logic next step for gaming. Think liquid, explosions, weather, multi object deformation, particles (you know how they cause slowdowns). Think if the PPU could handle every raindrop as a particle. I hope most people will see the potential in a PPU.
Physics doesn't add to gameplay? how can one say that?? Have you tried games like Elastomania, SkiStunt, Gish or Bride Builder? The only thing that makes them good is physics.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Mar 2005 04:34 Post subject: Re: New Physic Prosessing Unit (PPU) |
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| Supino wrote: | About the Ageia PhysX:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119895.html
Ageia PhysX in Unreal Engine 3:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119896.html
Quote:
"Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon 64, can support roughly 30 to 40 "active bodies," or physical objects that can interact with each other in-game. This limitation doesn't give developers much to work with in terms of physics simulation. Simulating a building blowing up in real time is impossible with such a small number of fragments, but increase the active body count to 32,000 or 40,000, which the Ageia PhysX PPU can handle, and then you'll have an explosion to talk about." |
I would like to see a water chip that handles water flow and realistic caustic effects.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Mar 2005 04:56 Post subject: |
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Supino
Posts: 699
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Mar 2005 08:44 Post subject: |
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hehe ok.. Elastomania was a bad example
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That said, I agree with you 100 %.
