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LeoNatan
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 Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 09:26 Post subject: Opera are pathetic little whiners. |
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| Quote: | Opera alerts EU to hidden Windows browser-ballot
Just when it seemed like Microsoft's European anti-trust tangle on browser choice in Windows was over, trouble is stirring again.
Opera Software has told The Reg that it has informed the European Union of a possible problem with a fix that was designed to make Internet Explorer in Windows comply with EU antitrust law. Opera has also informed Microsoft.
Opera said the browser-ballot screen Microsoft introduced to Windows so users could pick a browser rather than take Internet Explorer by default is being almost completely hidden by a set of 10 IE configuration screens. Opera illustrated the problem at The Reg's San-Francisco, California, offices with a set of screen shots taken from a Thinkpad X31 running Windows XP SP2.
The fear is that PC users will click through these screens and won't bother to then pick one of the five browsers on offer on the browser ballot screen. The ballot offers Chrome, Firefox, Opera, IE, and Safari.
In a statement, Microsoft said that Opera's example only applied to a user "very likely" to be opening IE for the first time, which was "unrealistic" in the case of a user already running Windows on their PC.
A spokesperson told The Reg: "This scenario is very easy to reproduce in a test lab, but would occur only in unusual cases in the real world. For it to occur with the Browser Choice screen, the user would need to have IE set as their default browser and have never configured it for use. Operaโs example, where a Windows XP user has rejected installation of IE 8 for the year it has been available but suddenly decides to install it is not realistic.โ
The ballot screen was introduced after a settlement between Microsoft and the EU last year, to close the Commission's investigation of Windows and IE.
Hakon Wium Lie, Opera's chief technology officer, said Opera hasn't decided whether to make a formal complaint to the EU, which would re-initiate the investigative machinery. It was Opera's 2007 complaint over browser access in Windows that sparked the investigation and produced the settlement.
The Commission has the power to fine Microsoft for not complying with antitrust law. Microsoft was fined $1.39bn (899m euro) in 2008 for not meeting the terms of an earlier antitrust ruling in a separate case in 2004.
According to Lie, the ballot screen is now being hidden by the IE configuration wizard when you download IE and the ballot screen in the same update from Microsoft's Windows Update service.
The browser choice screen is offered by Microsoft as an automatic download for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7, to reach PCs already running the operating system rather than new copies of Windows 7 that will be installed fresh.
Lie said the problem could be that the browser ballot screen runs in IE, so IE must therefore be configured when it's been downloaded and set up for the first time.
Lie said: "When you've been through the 10 screens of IE settings, you are limited with what you can be bothered doing next."
This is not the first challenge to the browser-ballot screen. Opera, Google, and Mozilla last year challenged the screen before settlement was signed, saying the ordering of the browser logos alphabetically would give priority to IE, while the IE logo itself would be too familiar and distort the choice. Last month, Microsoft updated the ballot-screen's algorithms following further criticism that screen was favoring the placement of Google's Chrome and IE.
Lie noted Opera has better things to do with its time than chase Microsoft, but: "I'm a little stubborn on this, I want this thing to work." |
 
So a user sets IE8 as default browser, wouldn't that mean he has made up his mind? I guess that ballot screen should appear on all browsers every time a new tab/window is open until he selects Opera. |
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 10:01 Post subject: |
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This?
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
๏ปฟ
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 10:14 Post subject: |
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This is the ballot screen, yes. Opera retards are not happy that if the users sets his default browser to IE, and only then launches IE to get the ballot screen, it gives them IE settings to set, which hide the ballot.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 10:24 Post subject: |
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...so they're retards for wanting fairness?
but the whole thing is retarded to give it as an update after the user has been using ie for months already.. there's no way the average user would switch at that point
it should ask right after the OS installation
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 10:29 Post subject: |
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How about you read the article? This is not about the ballot itself. This is about their silly whining.
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 10:57 Post subject: |
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Interesting, although I never got that problem with it, I test applications and general updates and such at work before they're verified and applied to other systems (IT stuff.) and this update has created some problems to those who manage to install it (Users are not supposed to be using other browsers, or have access to Windows Update in general actually, due to compatibility with certain websites built around IE6 or IE7.) but I never managed to "bug" it like that.
Update is installed even if you decide to also install IE8 or if IE8 is installed first or anything similar (Installing IE8 at work should be impossible normally though as we have the update banned due to a few compatibility issues with various websites used by the commune for work related stuff, people keep downloading it separate however.) but this update will install even if IE8 is already configured and running.
You then get that popup window (At every start of the computer if things go badly, which it often does.) where you can select to get more info about other browsers or install them. (IE8 always seen as a early choice even if it's already installed and active.)
Opera shouldn't really complain about it though, their browser is on the first page after all. 
(Along with Firefox, Chrome, IE8, Safari if I remember correctly and then it's followed by more obscure browser stuff like Tweet something or Avant something on the following pages, it's scrollable and has quite a few choices by now.)
EDIT: As a general opinion you kind-of need a internet browser today, removing it in the first place ("N" edition and what not available here in the EU.) was just silly, giving a choice of a additional browser like this is a good idea but not the best execution.
(Though I guess Opera, Firefox and the rest would want to increase market share further, they have been growing quite well despite IE being default on Windows though so I don't see the problem they apparently have about it, heh.)
EDIT: On the other hand if the user runs Windows/Microsoft update now and installs everything IE8 will be installed alongside this update, however IE8 is configured during the updating process directly whereas that pop-up thing is run at next boot.
(And every boot afterwards as it can't be removed in a easy way aside from regedit or utilities if this happens unless another browser is choosen since IE8 is already installed and won't give the proper screen when clicked on as a choice.)
EDIT: Technically being forced to choose another update would favor their competitors though, heh.
(Though as Inatan explained Opera seems to try and challenge Microsoft a bit further having them alter the "ballot" layout and sorting and such stuff a bit, funny as I can't imagine them liking Chrome being first, haha.)
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73240
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2010 11:32 Post subject: |
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This will be included in SP1, and all OEM versions which include all the updates integrated. 
Ironically, despite all of Opera's whining and moaning, this publicity has not increased their 0.02% market share at all. 
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