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 Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 21:29 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "character development(skills) has also been culled down to six or seven upgradeable skills for shepard and just four for companions. Has ME2 been dumbed down? Yeah abit, but these changes don't make it a worse game than its predecessor; it just haas some different priorities this time around," |
[rant mode]
Buck Rogers: CTD and MC (1990): more than 90 skills available for the characters, every one of them having an effect in-game
Realms of Arkania (1994): 50-something skills
Daggerfall (1996): 30-something skills
Oblivion (2006) 15? skills
Mass effect 2 (2010): 6 to 4 skills.
[/rant mode]
So much for next gen.
| Quote: |
" The charm and intimidation skills that unlocked special conversation options in the first game have been melded into the Paragon/Renegade system, which now unlocks options based on how much of a swell guy or jerk you've been. " |
Does not compute.
What do morality choices have to do with the ability to intimidate/charm other people? Now you can't charm someone because you're evil? You've got to be kidding me.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 21:34 Post subject: |
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I don't think of the Mass Effect series as an action RPG. More like interactive story telling, or action adventure with some RPG character progression.
When Bioware makes an RPG, it makes Dragon Age.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 21:36 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | I don't think of the Mass Effect series as an action RPG. More like interactive story telling, or action adventure with some RPG character progression.
When Bioware makes an RPG, it makes Dragon Age. |
You're further cementing our point, mate. If Mass Effect never had much RPG stuff to begin with -- then why change what little it had in the first place? Why not just keep it the same, only refine the combat and continue the story?
The simple answer is; the average console tard got confused by the little numbers and inventory management, so now EAWare is removing all that.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 22:17 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | The simple answer is; the average console tard got confused by the little numbers and inventory management, so now EAWare is removing all that. |
Very simplistic and arrogant assumption. The first game was received very well, even by the "stupid console gamers" as you define them. This game was always meant to be more shooter than RPG, there was nothing surprising about that. Bioware simply improved the shooter element and made it more action oriented by simplifying (according to previews of course) the RPG side of it all.
Alot of bitching about zilch. It's not like they made a shooter out of a hardcore RPG with gazillion stats. Mass Effect was and always will be an action RPG, it was never RPG.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 22:18 Post subject: |
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| capretto wrote: |
Oblivion (2006) 15? skills
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Oblivion had 21 skills, granted still a drop from Morrowind's 27.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: |
Very simplistic and arrogant assumption. |
I call it as I see it. The gross simplification of titles only started in the Xbox/PS1 era, when PC games were being ported FROM the PC to the console (imagine that! It's true, it really DID happen like that! Games started.... ON THE PC!! *gasp* Don't believe? Go ask your dad, he was around then!) and the stupid little control schemes, extremely limited buttons, vastly inferior hardware specifications and the lower age demographic started the "let's MAINSTREAM IT!" revolution.
I've just been playing AvP Classic and I've come to the saddening realisation; a game that epic would never be released on consoles because it's too damned fast for the puny little analogue sticks to handle. I'm now even more afraid for AvP3 than I was before (I reckon it'll still rock, but playing as the Alien will never be as fast as it was back then)
| Mister_s wrote: |
Alot of bitching about zilch. It's not like they made a shooter out of a hardcore RPG with gazillion stats. Mass Effect was and always will be an action RPG, it was never RPG. |
Yes, it was always an action RPG. Now it's just action.
"Streamlined!!!1111" Yeah? Fuck your fucking streamlining, give us more of what we already had.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73721
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jan 2010 22:36 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | It's not like they made a shooter out of a hardcore RPG with gazillion stats. |
No, that 'honor' is saved for Fallout 3.  |
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Guyver
Posts: 2221
Location: Bunga-Bun... err Italy.
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 05:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 05:21 Post subject: |
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The first Mass Effect sucked as an RPG anyway.
| Quote: | What do morality choices have to do with the ability to intimidate/charm other people? Now you can't charm someone because you're evil? You've got to be kidding me.
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I was hoping that by this, they'd give you fake Paragon choices if you're a Renegade. As in pretending to be good while secretly being a dick. I really disliked the alignment system in the first game since you were pretty much just a bipolar dude who did the extremes of either alignment.
Gustave the Steel
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 11:01 Post subject: |
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Great...so basically it's Gears of War with 2 skills.
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 12:18 Post subject: |
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Not really, no.
Gustave the Steel
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 21:31 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 21:37 Post subject: |
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| JBeckman wrote: | http://worthplaying.com/article/2010/1/16/news/71600/
Free DLC at launch. |
So thats what you get with the Cerberus Card. This wont work with pirated versions tho..wondering how hard its gonna be to unlock all this. Guess it won't be as easy as Dragon Age dazip files.
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Surray
Posts: 5409
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 23:38 Post subject: |
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the combat has been simplified a bit and now suddenly it's gears of war?
aren't you forgetting that it's just the combat part of an rpg?
it's not like you spend the whole game in combat..
Likot Mosuskekim, Woodcutter cancels Sleep: Interrupted by Elephant.
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LeoNatan
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Location: Israel
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Jan 2010 23:43 Post subject: |
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It's not about the combat. The little RPG that was there is now even smaller to non-existent. I'm worried most of all how the story will suffer, in order to appeal to frat tards that have to have "cool" and "witty" moments and dialog (just take a look at the new characters).
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 00:14 Post subject: |
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Yea the new characters are a joke. I mean Mass effect 1 had IMO pretty good characters because they seemed pretty realistic and not a stereotypical kinda joke of characters that many games have. And what do we get in mass effect 2? A cocky girl who thinks shes something special and some pathetic crazy bitch who thinks she is really bad ass. I so hope that there will be at least 2 companions that aren't so ridiculously over the top so that I don't have to modify the game to let me run around with less people than a full group.
Apart from the removal of charm/intimidate i hope they haven't fucked up with Sheperd, loved him as a character in the first game and as long as you have similar conversation choices as in ME1 i would probably end up happy.
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 00:24 Post subject: |
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Mmmm... Still working my way through the first game (What? I bought it on the Steam holiday sale  ). Still. It seems like BioWare is taking two different tacks - Dragon Age for the rpg fans (and, yeah, I'm an rpg fan - pencil-and-paper since Shadowrun 2nd Ed in the late 80s/early 90s), and this, which is more combat heavy. They've changed it since the first part, but, tbh, if the story is still decent, then so what? Different games, different mechanics, different styles. Iif they've changed it due to trying to tailor it to certain markets, it kinda sucks, but as with everything, it's how well they've implemented it. I will be sad if it's less rpg than the first game, but as long as it's a good game...
Pixieking
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 00:25 Post subject: |
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How can the characters be judged without knowing anything about their background? Of course the description will be cliche, they can't develop a character in just one alinea. If I had to describe a gamecharacter with just one alinea of text, and that would be how they'd be judged, they'd all be shit.
The only noteworthy RPG thing Mass Effect ever had was the story, the dialogues and the universe. There was nothing special about the two items with hunderd skins, the skills weren't that special and the allignment thing was standard. Bioware simply leaned those aspects down and tweaked them. The story, dialogue and characters are still there, even better according to reviews.
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Threepwood
Posts: 473
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 04:40 Post subject: |
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Great review...
| GameTM wrote: |
Review information
+ One of the most memorable opening sequences ever.
+ Improved combat. It not only rivals dedicated 'cover-shooters', it actually betters them (aside from Gears 2 and Uncharted).
+ Brilliant dialogue interrupt system.
+ More refined inventory/equipment management. Improvements to weapons, armour etc (which carry across all party members) are carried out on the Normandy via 'research documents' that you buy or find. Quality of the research is dependant on the 'elements' that you find when scanning planets.
+ Less planets to explore, but much more varied and diverse. Some kick off quests that send you off to other planets/locations.
+ Near 'miraculous' art direction. All the worlds create a cohesive looking universe, but are never derivative or repetitive.
+ Sharper cinematics. Snappier editing, restless camera movement.
+ Memorable, well written and deep characters (a career best for Bioware).
- Repercussions of choices made in the first game aren't as keenly felt as they'd have liked
10/10
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Pixies
Posts: 382
Location: Deep in the Caribbean
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 05:20 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | LESS planets to explore!? Holy Fucking Mary Mother of Fucking GOD! How can there be LESS??? There were barely any planets to explore in the first game, now they're giving us less?? I was kinda (read: VERY MUCH SO) hoping we'd have more fully-explorable planets this time around... rather than the barren planets you couldn't do anything with 
Hell, I've been hoping against hope since ME-PC was released that we'd get some kind of mod tools with which to open those planets.
Ah well, the rest sounds great though (obvious "inventory/equipment management" shit aside) |
In pure numbers there were actually quite a few planets, moons, bases and adrift kowloon-class cruisers to explore in ME1. The main problem was that a great many of them were just about the same. I mean, mention an ME1 side-planet to even a very dedicated fan who's done multiple playthroughs, and he would most likely be hard-pressed to remember what kind of quests take place there because they're so similar they blur together.
So, cutting down the numbers a bit in order to provide more variety and depth doesn't seem bad to me. Obviously it depends on exactly how it's been handled, but you can't both have gazillions of planets and have them all be lengthy, special and involving; something's got to give.
In optimistic speculation, if there are half or even one-third as many side planets, but they all manage to come off as fairly unique and non-repetitive, it'd be a very good trade-off in my opinion.
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 05:46 Post subject: |
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Those copy/paste planets with "empty" quests in ME were crap. I don't want more planets, I want more OVERALL content.
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Threepwood
Posts: 473
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 05:49 Post subject: |
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The less the better. If you find a mission in a planet, it's a "M7" quest. Bioware said that every quest adds to the overall story.
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JBeckman
VIP Member
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 06:53 Post subject: |
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The RPG elements sucked so bad in the first game, which is the reason why I'm treating this series as more of an interactive movie with a bit more freedom.
Less planets to explore is perfectly fine so long as the ones that are in are fleshed out and aren't just all one room dungeons like in the first game.
Would it be safe to say what we have now is something akin to Final Fantasy XIII minus the linearity and with more freedom?
Also Miranda doesn't look a thing like the actress she's based on. Bioware should stop with this whole modelling after a person because they're not very good at it. As stated many times, Miranda looks more like Michael Jackson if anything else. It creeps me out, and I believe is reason enough to never make use of her. Or at least until they have a face morph in place to make her look like a woman and not a transvestite.
Gustave the Steel
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Pey
Posts: 5601
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Jan 2010 07:39 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | LESS planets to explore!? Holy Fucking Mary Mother of Fucking GOD! How can there be LESS??? There were barely any planets to explore in the first game, now they're giving us less?? I was kinda (read: VERY MUCH SO) hoping we'd have more fully-explorable planets this time around... rather than the barren planets you couldn't do anything with |
They are not few, I spent a lot of time doing all missions and collecting all minerals, insignias, writings, etc. The whole playthrough took like 18hs, if not more. The thing is, collecting all stuff was very tedious and slowed the overall pacing. Now they´re aiming for a more arcadish or console audience, so it´s not that bad. Everyone will enjoy the game, but it will not be an rpg and it will be less of an rpg than the first one, that´s for sure.
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| Page 15 of 181 |
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