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 Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 05:56 Post subject: |
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It has never been that quick for me. It seems everytime I logon the thing always needs to update it self, which is a slow and tedious process because the download is slower then crap. And yes, I have a wonderful connection, so that is not the problem.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 07:42 Post subject: |
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I don't mind the concept of steam, just the fact that its mandatory to have it on your system to even play the single-player game. Like others have said, what if the other companies decide to go this route as well? Next thing you know, you've got 10 different steam-like applications eating your memory and your HD-space if you want to play those games. Make steam optional for the people who don't want to update manually, and I have no problem with it.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 09:15 Post subject: |
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You're all overlooking the problems posed by the Steam EULA.
Section 2.A of the Steam EULA states:
License Terms.
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the installation of the Steam client and the automatic download of software, other content and updates thereto onto your computer (“Steam Software”). You may not use Steam Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that Steam may automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Steam Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Steam Software may change over time.
Translation: Steam can, at any time, install software that it feels is useful to us or to them. Such an "update" may include DRM protection, which would limit Steam to working in a 'secure' environment only (think Starforce, but worse). The rest of us would, of course, either have to make their environment 'secure' or absorb a $50 loss for the software, and Valve would not be responsible.
Section 3.F of the Steam EULA states:
F. Third Party Sites.
Steam may provide links to other third party sites. Some of these sites may charge separate fees, which are not included in any Subscription or other fees that you may pay to Valve. Steam may also provide access to third-party vendors, who provide content, goods and/or services on Steam or the Internet. Any separate charges or obligations you incur in your dealings with these third parties are your responsibility.
Translation: Steam may show me ads, which have in the past included pop-ups. Steam can also allow those companies to pander to me at will, as has been seen before in Steam's connection dialogues.
Section 8 of the EULA states:
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE STEAM SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S). YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK WITH RESPECT TO THE PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS OF THE STEAM SOFTWARE IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR HARDWARE.
Translation: Should the Steam service get infected with a virus that infects your PC, screw up, shut down, delete your account, steal money or software from you, or outlive your system's performance, or screw up, you can't sue us.
Section 10 of the Steam EULA states:
10. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after posting the new amended Agreement on Steam. You agree to review the Agreement periodically to become aware of such amendments. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after an amended Agreement is posted on Steam will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don’t agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.
Translation: Steam can change it's EULA to whatever terms it pleases, and we then have 30 days to agree with the NEW contract, or cancel our subscription and absorb any losses.
Section 11 of the EULA, subsections B through C:
…In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted.
C. Termination by Valve.
1. In the case of a recurring payment Subscription (e.g., a monthly subscription), in the event that Valve terminates or cancels your Account or a particular Subscription for convenience, Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide a prorated refund of any prepaid Subscription fees paid to Valve.
2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.
| Trekkari wrote: | Item B states that no refunds will be given for cancellation due to a violation of this agreement (fine), illegal activity (fine), or improper activity (not fine). Improper activity as determined by whom?
Section C has two glaringly obvious issues, one in each of the subsections. In item 1, if a subscription or account is terminated “for convenience,” prepaid usage of that account or subscription is not a guaranteed refund for the time not used due to no fault of the user. How can you expect people to agree to a contract that says you can cancel their accounts and keep their money when they did not get what they paid for? The second issue with section C is in item number 2: my subscription or account can be terminated by Valve at any time, and I am not promised the ability to still own the game(s) I paid for?
That is called theft. Nobody in their right mind would give someone $50 for a game to download over the internet while signing away their rights to use, own, or operate that software without your permission and access to a proprietary system such as Steam. It is inconceivable that you would include this statement in your EULA and assume that you can get away with allowing the download of a retail game (which cannot be burned onto a CD as an image), and then decide that if you cancel their account, the customers $50 worth of downloaded content that is subsequently rendered useless is not valid for a hard-copy of the game that can be played without Steam. |
Source: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=71238
Who, in their right mind, would agree to a contract that says that the software they own can be DRM'd, infect their computer, screw up, or be entirely taken away from them without repercussion?
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 21:51 Post subject: |
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| Accelleron wrote: | You're all overlooking the problems posed by the Steam EULA.
Section 2.A of the Steam EULA states:
License Terms.
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the installation of the Steam client and the automatic download of software, other content and updates thereto onto your computer (“Steam Software”). You may not use Steam Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that Steam may automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Steam Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Steam Software may change over time.
Translation: Steam can, at any time, install software that it feels is useful to us or to them. Such an "update" may include DRM protection, which would limit Steam to working in a 'secure' environment only (think Starforce, but worse). The rest of us would, of course, either have to make their environment 'secure' or absorb a $50 loss for the software, and Valve would not be responsible.
Section 3.F of the Steam EULA states:
F. Third Party Sites.
Steam may provide links to other third party sites. Some of these sites may charge separate fees, which are not included in any Subscription or other fees that you may pay to Valve. Steam may also provide access to third-party vendors, who provide content, goods and/or services on Steam or the Internet. Any separate charges or obligations you incur in your dealings with these third parties are your responsibility.
Translation: Steam may show me ads, which have in the past included pop-ups. Steam can also allow those companies to pander to me at will, as has been seen before in Steam's connection dialogues.
Section 8 of the EULA states:
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE STEAM SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S). YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK WITH RESPECT TO THE PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS OF THE STEAM SOFTWARE IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR HARDWARE.
Translation: Should the Steam service get infected with a virus that infects your PC, screw up, shut down, delete your account, steal money or software from you, or outlive your system's performance, or screw up, you can't sue us.
Section 10 of the Steam EULA states:
10. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after posting the new amended Agreement on Steam. You agree to review the Agreement periodically to become aware of such amendments. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after an amended Agreement is posted on Steam will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don’t agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.
Translation: Steam can change it's EULA to whatever terms it pleases, and we then have 30 days to agree with the NEW contract, or cancel our subscription and absorb any losses.
Section 11 of the EULA, subsections B through C:
…In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted.
C. Termination by Valve.
1. In the case of a recurring payment Subscription (e.g., a monthly subscription), in the event that Valve terminates or cancels your Account or a particular Subscription for convenience, Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide a prorated refund of any prepaid Subscription fees paid to Valve.
2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.
| Trekkari wrote: | Item B states that no refunds will be given for cancellation due to a violation of this agreement (fine), illegal activity (fine), or improper activity (not fine). Improper activity as determined by whom?
Section C has two glaringly obvious issues, one in each of the subsections. In item 1, if a subscription or account is terminated “for convenience,” prepaid usage of that account or subscription is not a guaranteed refund for the time not used due to no fault of the user. How can you expect people to agree to a contract that says you can cancel their accounts and keep their money when they did not get what they paid for? The second issue with section C is in item number 2: my subscription or account can be terminated by Valve at any time, and I am not promised the ability to still own the game(s) I paid for?
That is called theft. Nobody in their right mind would give someone $50 for a game to download over the internet while signing away their rights to use, own, or operate that software without your permission and access to a proprietary system such as Steam. It is inconceivable that you would include this statement in your EULA and assume that you can get away with allowing the download of a retail game (which cannot be burned onto a CD as an image), and then decide that if you cancel their account, the customers $50 worth of downloaded content that is subsequently rendered useless is not valid for a hard-copy of the game that can be played without Steam. |
Source: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=71238
Who, in their right mind, would agree to a contract that says that the software they own can be DRM'd, infect their computer, screw up, or be entirely taken away from them without repercussion? |
They dont care acceleron, its apparent after my battle with them, that they dont give a hoot n' nickle, even though the EULA clearly states what we have been telling them.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 22:25 Post subject: |
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Yes judging by that contract they could install a movie player within Steam and force me to watch bestiality for 10 mins before I play HL2.
Somehow I don't think that will happen. I wonder why.......
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Feb 2005 22:28 Post subject: |
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| dryan wrote: | Yes judging by that contract they could install a movie player within Steam and force me to watch bestiality for 10 mins before I play HL2.
Somehow I don't think that will happen. I wonder why....... |
You fail to see the point though. If they decided they wanted to, they could, legally.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 00:44 Post subject: |
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But they're not going to. This is an argument for science fiction writers!
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 01:23 Post subject: |
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i think his screenshot says it all..... 11FPS? hahaha
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 01:26 Post subject: |
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| Sublime wrote: | | i think his screenshot says it all..... 11FPS? hahaha |
Nice job staying on topic, not to mention the fact I had 8x aa/af going with all high settings.
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 01:29 Post subject: |
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Soooo. Who's watchin the Super Bowl?
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 01:34 Post subject: |
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The screen looks pretty crap for 8xAA/AF although that could be due to image compression I suppose.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 03:40 Post subject: |
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| dryan wrote: | Yes judging by that contract they could install a movie player within Steam and force me to watch bestiality for 10 mins before I play HL2.
Somehow I don't think that will happen. I wonder why....... |
That's nice. Neither are movie studios going to DRM their DVDs and make you get 3 day licences for them... Nor music studios make your discs unplayable in a normal car stereo. Oops...
And besides, you were blind enough to miss the part on Steam installing things like 'anonymous' monitoring, adware, etc. on your PC. And why not: They don't have to be responsible. They don't even have to tell you about it.
And let's say that a good CS major REALLY gets pissed off at Steam and it's fanboys and writes a trojan that installs through Steam and corrupts your hard drive. Will it be a scandal? Yes. Will it be fixed? Yes. Will Valve have to pay you one red cent for fucking up the $X of valuable data you had on your PC? HAH.
Or, if Valve decides it is "convenient" to turn off your account for some bullshit, such as McHart's "Credit card fraud". Legally, they can do it and revoke your access to things like your $100 copy of HL2, your copy of HL, etc.
Finally, what if Valve decides to release a HL3. Will it need people playing the old one that's not making them money anymore? No. Therefore, it's convenient enough for Valve to take down Steam and it's users, without making them owe you a cent.
I don't know what reality you live in, but those threats are far from fiction.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 03:59 Post subject: |
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OK, I'll go through and explain why I don't care about any of these "threats".
| Accelleron wrote: |
And besides, you were blind enough to miss the part on Steam installing things like 'anonymous' monitoring, adware, etc. on your PC. And why not: They don't have to be responsible. They don't even have to tell you about it.
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Yes I'm sure Gabe is thinking "Why not monitor our users PC? They will probably find out and we will get a load of bad publicity. We won't even get any valuable information from it! Let's just do it for fun". Any monitoring they do do will be something like taking the specs of a PC once or something so they can judge the market they are aiming for.
Why on earth would Valve want to install 'anonymous' monitoring or adware within Steam. It's rediculous. People are oh so quick to scream "O NOEZ! VALVE CAN MONITOR MY PC" when the chances of them actually doing it are miniscule!
| Accelleron wrote: |
And let's say that a good CS major REALLY gets pissed off at Steam and it's fanboys and writes a trojan that installs through Steam and corrupts your hard drive. Will it be a scandal? Yes. Will it be fixed? Yes. Will Valve have to pay you one red cent for fucking up the $X of valuable data you had on your PC? HAH.
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I don't see how this is specific to Steam. This could happen to any software in the world. If you don't backup valuable data that is worth money then you deserve all you get.
| Accelleron wrote: |
Or, if Valve decides it is "convenient" to turn off your account for some bullshit, such as McHart's "Credit card fraud". Legally, they can do it and revoke your access to things like your $100 copy of HL2, your copy of HL, etc.
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Well, I think the user is at fault for doing something as painfully stupid as pirating software on a Steam account which has paid software attached to it. Once again, Valve is quite right to disable the account of anyone doing something like this. If there is a mistake made then I'm sure it would be rectified upon contacting Valve. Then again, maybe you're right and Valve are just disabling accounts for the fun of it. 
| Accelleron wrote: |
Finally, what if Valve decides to release a HL3. Will it need people playing the old one that's not making them money anymore? No. Therefore, it's convenient enough for Valve to take down Steam and it's users, without making them owe you a cent.
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Every piece of abandoned software in the world is subject to becoming obselete. Try playing an old game on XP and you'll probably need a third-party patch or tweak of some sort. The same applies to a Steam game. Anyway, I'd imagine Valve will be sensible enough to release something that will allow you to continue playing considering the excellent job they've done of supporting their legitimate customers so far.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:04 Post subject: |
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To bad valve never "rectified" my issue. And yes, I was using a valid credit card.
Your arrogance scares me.
How do you really know they wont do shit like this?
Never throw all your gold in one pot my friend.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:13 Post subject: |
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Yes an account with a valid credit card that you tried to pirate software on. Good one batman! Were you expecting them to send you flowers or something? You were stupid enough to try and pirate software on a legit Steam account. IT IS YOUR FAULT.
I don't know they won't do they things mentioned. Then again, I don't know if Gabe will come to my house and rape me or not. To be honest, it's not the biggest of my concerns. I don't really care enough about these hypothetical issues to proclaim that a service, which has served me brilliantly, is bad.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:15 Post subject: |
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| dryan wrote: | Yes an account with a valid credit card that you tried to pirate software on. Good one batman! Were you expecting them to send you flowers or something? You were stupid enough to try and pirate software on a legit Steam account. IT IS YOUR FAULT.
I don't know they won't do they things mentioned. Then again, I don't know if Gabe will come to my house and rape me or not. To be honest, it's not the biggest of my concerns. I don't really care enough about these hypothetical issues to proclaim that a service, which has served me brilliantly, is bad. |
Where exactly did you get the idea that I pirated software on that account? It was a fully legal account.
And as for you not caring...
"
Welcome my son,
Welcome to the machine.
Where have you been ?
It's alright,
We know where you've been.
You've been in the pipeline,
Filling in time.
Provided with toys and 'Scouting for Boys'.
You bought a guitar, To punish your ma,
And you didn't like school,
And you know you're nobody's fool.
So welcome to the machine.
Welcome my son,
Welcome to the machine.
What did you dream ? It's alright,
We told you what to dream.
You dreamed of a big star,
He played a mean guitar.
He always ate in the steak bar.
He loved to drive in his Jaguar.
So welcome to the machine.
"
I think Adolf has some words of wisdom on this issue..
Last edited by Mchart on Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:17; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:16 Post subject: |
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You mentioned it in the "Did anyone else get their Steam account banned?" thread you started to complain about it.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:17 Post subject: |
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| dryan wrote: | | You mentioned it in the "Did anyone else get their Steam account banned?" thread you started to complain about it. |
And that was on a completely different account.
Not to mention the only way I can figure that they found out about me having the pirated version of HL2 on my machine was with some form of spyware. I did not use steam at all for acquiring the thing. And the only way it could have found out was by spying on my computer.
Last edited by Mchart on Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:19; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:19 Post subject: |
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You said differently in the aforementioned thread.
Nice poem btw. The word which immediately springs to mind is TINFOIL.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:21 Post subject: |
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Actually thats the song that plays on my computer whenever steam starts.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:29 Post subject: |
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I just had a look at that thread. You seem to strangely forget to mention an important detail such as it being a different account. It was strange you edited the post in this thread to include this rather crucial bit of info too. Hmmm!!! I hope you aren't just making stuff up to reinforce your points!
Regarding this song and Adolf's words of wisdom, maybe fisk was right about you being a crackpot conspiracy theorist.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:30 Post subject: |
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| dryan wrote: | I just had a look at that thread. You seem to strangely forget to mention an important detail such as it being a different account. It was strange you edited the post in this thread to include this rather crucial bit of info too. Hmmm!!! I hope you aren't just making stuff up to reinforce your points!
Regarding this song and Adolf's words of wisdom, maybe fisk was right about you being a crackpot conspiracy theorist. |
First off, that quote is real, and really says a lot. Second off, if you are able to comprehend literature at all, you would realize that this song also fits into this situation.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:32 Post subject: |
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I never claimed it wasn't real and I understand how the song fits into the situation. What's your point?
Im a cockfag
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:34 Post subject: |
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| Mchart wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | You mentioned it in the "Did anyone else get their Steam account banned?" thread you started to complain about it. |
And that was on a completely different account.
Not to mention the only way I can figure that they found out about me having the pirated version of HL2 on my machine was with some form of spyware. I did not use steam at all for acquiring the thing. And the only way it could have found out was by spying on my computer. |
You do you know you have something called an IP. They were banning IPs. If they saw the same IP creating a new account they'll ban that account too.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 04:36 Post subject: |
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| hahe wrote: | | Mchart wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | You mentioned it in the "Did anyone else get their Steam account banned?" thread you started to complain about it. |
And that was on a completely different account.
Not to mention the only way I can figure that they found out about me having the pirated version of HL2 on my machine was with some form of spyware. I did not use steam at all for acquiring the thing. And the only way it could have found out was by spying on my computer. |
You do you know you have something called an IP. They were banning IPs. If they saw the same IP creating a new account they'll ban that account too. |
Yes, I realize this.
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 05:13 Post subject: |
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anyone tried the torrent for CS:Source 1.91 update easy installer?
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eRaideR
Posts: 102
Location: Toronto, THAT'S RIGHT! EH!?
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Feb 2005 07:45 Post subject: |
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No, Steam is fucken awesome.
No fuckers that havent payed.
It can block cheaters.
Its amazing for CAL, to indentify players. Its amazing. It makes CS more stricter. and once they release their anticheat, people will realize.
If you wear a selafone suite, people clearly see your nuts.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Feb 2005 01:43 Post subject: |
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battle.net kick steam's ass
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Feb 2005 03:02 Post subject: |
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