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Neon
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Location: Poland
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 Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:08 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Like has been said before, it's not the machine, it's the players that get dumber and dumber every few years. It's easy to blame the "consoles" but they are the lesser of evil (they are only limiting technological progression). The real evil is dumb audience expecting the easiest crap. |
I think it's more due to the expansion of the market, and hence a more significant averaging effect on the gaming demographic.
As games have become more mainstream and less niche, the average player is becoming more comparable to the average human.
Besides this has gone way off topic, my original point was that it is PC gamers as a population that have a large degree of responsibility for the current state of the PC gaming market. Contemporary piracy is only exacerbating the issue, but I'm not claiming there isn't any justification for it.
My other point was a general criticism of the apparent elitist attitude of PC gamers, it's unproductive and only contributes to the decline of the platform.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:11 Post subject: |
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I think with this we have full circle with the original post by Epsilon. This is my main issue with the console-oriented development. The elitism that you mention is because we have been pushed to a corner.
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:26 Post subject: |
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Isn't the whole "bla bla bla game industry goes more and more in the direction of dumbed down console games bla bla" pretty worn out by now?
It's no secret that most publishers want to make their game appeal more and more to causal gamers and "hardcore" gamers are bound to be disappointed sooner or later.
With shitty games and more and more casual games they alienate the base of their original customers. Or am I getting that wrong?
@AM:
It's not that I _only_ buy triple AAA games. Hell I bought Beyond Good and Evil, it was awesome but not very widespread. Same goes with (kinda) Psychonauts.
I buy indie games. So basically I don't give a damn who made the game as long as it's good.
@sabin:
Not only are there hardly any demos anymore but even if there are demos, at least in my experience, they somehow don't convey the full game anymore.
I hardly download demos anymore anyway. I'd rahter get the full game and the experience is the same as when/if I buy the game
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Neon
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:27 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:32 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: |
It's no secret that most publishers want to make their game appeal more and more to causal gamers and "hardcore" gamers are bound to be disappointed sooner or later.
With shitty games and more and more casual games they alienate the base of their original customers. Or am I getting that wrong?
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Does greater accessibility necessarily mean reduced quality? Good games will always be more successful and while overall complexity might have declined over the years I don't think the quality of the best games has.
I loved Bioshock just as much as System Shock or Deus Ex (maybe a little less then this) even though it could be considered less complex then those two games.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Sep 2009 23:39 Post subject: |
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It comes down to how you define "quality" I guess. For instance, for me, it is a good game, but also have good production values. I can rarely categorize a game as great if it only has good gameplay but is ridden with bugs (like ArmA), or has amazing production values but is bad in the gameplay (like Crysis). For instance, a great game for me was Mass Effect, which might not have been as advanced as some other RPG titles, but the whole package was beyond excellent. Another example that comes from the top of my head is Mirror's Edge, which was great. So I do make "compromises", but I draw a line at some point. 
So, to answer your question, it's very subjective. Does quality suffer in the case of Conviction? I think it does, and nothing I have seen so far has convinced me otherwise. I will of course try it; if it's good, I have no problem admitting my mistakes. Nothing wrong with criticism, even if a game is not yet released.
Also, on objectivity. I think gaming is very subjective; it's what you like, and what you want to play. Publisher consideration should play a zero role when evaluating of a game is good.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 06:29 Post subject: |
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I quote it because I was banned before for saying similar stuff. I found the irony hilarious. 
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| Posted: Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 14:28 Post subject: |
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Meh. PC Gamers aren't elitist, we're experienced. We whine like an elitist prick, but it's justified. Right now I have games on my computer from 10 years ago and further back that still play awesomely and the new stuff when compared is just shit. We may be picky, but christ we set the bar for what a game should be, I don't want anymore shovelware shit, I've seen enough of it.
The console is dumbed down purely from a point of view of experience, 15yr old kids (or casuals) will buy anything of high quality because they've never played that stuff before, just like Disney makes the same damn movie every year, so will another Goldeneye/Halo pop up on the next console and the kids will think it's awesome. I grew up on Goldeneye, I want more than that. A PC Gamer will not buy a lot of stuff a console gamer will and I think that's a good thing.
New splinter cell is not as good as the predecessor? I ain't paying for it. Shit games are the reason the PC market sucks. Or did you mean to tell me I should pay $50 USD (in America) for a new game that is worse than something I already have just for the sake of perpetuating the PC gaming market?
 Spoiler: | the secret is that the Sims and WoW are some of the highest sellers on the PC, games that would not work the same on consoles. So if you want to sell well on the PC you have to play to it's strength(s). If a developer doesn't do that and ports a console game and expects stellar sales with no bitching from the old school PC gamers... then that developer is a fucking idiot. |
Last edited by Submiqent on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 14:32; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 14:30 Post subject: |
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Holy shit.
Submiqent FTW.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73390
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 14:42 Post subject: |
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| Nailbiter wrote: | | So what you are saying is that you agree with the text that you have quoted, but not only that, you were also banned for saying the same and therefor uses epsilons quote to say what you want. |
Uhm, I'm split. Wouldn't go as far as saying that unless I'm provoked (I'm sure Epsilon was emotional about some game when he posted that). I tend to say a lot of bullshit when I'm excited about something then regret it (I'm very passionate ). I do think that the over-simplification of games is due to console reaching a larger audience each generation, audience that wasn't playing games before that for a reason. On the contrary to popular belief, I do not think all console players are idiots - a lot of PC gamers have been swayed away from the PC to consoles simply because of so poor PC development in the last few years. Hell, even I considered moving, and probably would have, if Microsoft sold its console here officially (I live in a hot weather country, so RROD warranty was very important to me). |
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Neon
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