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helvete




Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 18th Sep 2009 23:52    Post subject: The Economist's Democracy index
Was browsing through wikipedia real quick and I found this neat little list. Not posting it to brag because I hope and think we'll drop next year (after the us antipiracy lobby had the piratebay shut down), but it is interesting and might start a few entertaining "discussions".

The list (it's long):
 Spoiler:
 


Now if you're gonna open your pie hole (or wiggle your fap tools if you will) you should take a look at the methodology:
Quote:
Methodology

As described in the report, the democracy index is a kind of weighted average based on the answers of 60 questions, each one with either two or three permitted alternative answers. Most answers are "experts' assessments"; the report does not indicate what kinds of experts, nor their number, nor whether the experts are employees of The Economist or e.g. independent scholars, nor the nationalities of the experts. Some answers are provided by public opinion surveys from the respective countries. "In the case of countries for which survey results are missing, survey results for similar countries and expert assessments are used in order to fill in gaps."

The questions are distributed into the five categories enumerated supra. Each answer is translated to a mark, either 0 or 1, or for the three answer alternative questions, 0.5. With the exceptions infra, seemingly, the sums are added within each category, multiplied by ten, and divided by the total number of questions within the category. There are a few modifying dependencies, which are explained much more precisely than the main rule procedures. In a few cases, an answer yielding zero for one question voids another question; e.g., if the elections for national legislation and head of government are not considered free (question 1), then the next question, "Are elections... fair?" is not considered, but automatically marked zero. Likewise, there are a few questions considered so important that a low score on them yields a penalty on the total score sum for their respective categories, namely

1. "Whether national elections are free and fair";
2. "The security of voters";
3. "The influence of foreign powers on government";
4. "The capability of the civil servants to implement policies".

The five category indices, which all are listed in the report, are then averaged to find the democracy index for a given country. Finally, the democracy index, rounded to one decimal, decides the classification of the country, as quoted:

1. Full democracies—scores of 8-10.
2. Flawed democracies—scores of 6 to 7.9.
3. Hybrid regimes—scores of 4 to 5.9.
4. Authoritarian regimes—scores below 4.

The report discusses other indices of democracy, as defined e.g. by Freedom House, and argues for some of the choices made by the team from The Economist. E.g., in this comparison, a higher emphasis has been put on the public opinion and attitudes, as measured by public surveys, but on the other hand, economic living standard has not been weighted as one criterion of democracy (as seemingly some other investigators have done).[citation needed][weasel words]

There is no indication that this report has been presented or is planned to be presented in any academic context, or has been checked by or will be checked by a peer review.


Link to wikipage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

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GeordieRacer




Posts: 4008
Location: Leeds, UK
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 00:14    Post subject:
21st!!!!! Bullshit, more like bottom, or last, after china and Iran.
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helvete




Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 00:25    Post subject:
Ok you're not jenni. Smile

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GeordieRacer




Posts: 4008
Location: Leeds, UK
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 00:52    Post subject:
Yeah, im capable of rational though without my emotions getting the better of me Wink
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove



Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 00:56    Post subject:
GeordieRacer wrote:
Yeah, im capable of rational though without my emotions getting the better of me Wink

Quite.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere



Posts: 65093
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 01:18    Post subject:
29th place. It's not that bad, considering that we definitely deserved a lower position. You know, we have Berlusconi.

Take a look here, and you'll find why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi
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helvete




Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 01:32    Post subject:
ixigia wrote:
29th place. Laughing It's not that bad, considering that we definitely deserved a lower position. You know, we have Berlusconi.


agreed, and I think this is the culprit
Quote:
...a higher emphasis has been put on the public opinion and attitudes, as measured by public surveys...

With berlusconis control of the media I guess it's easy to fool people into thinking they're "free".

The whole list is flawed anyway imo. Maybe not the internal rankings, but no country deserves a grade higher than 8, or at the very least 9. Corporate influence in any free market "democracy" should preclude that.

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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere



Posts: 65093
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 01:48    Post subject:
helvete wrote:
ixigia wrote:
29th place. Laughing It's not that bad, considering that we definitely deserved a lower position. You know, we have Berlusconi.


agreed, and I think this is the culprit
Quote:
...a higher emphasis has been put on the public opinion and attitudes, as measured by public surveys...

With berlusconis control of the media I guess it's easy to fool people into thinking they're "free".

Absolutely. He directly owns 3 of 6 main Tv channels ( the infamous Mediaset company) and "indirectly" influences the other 3 ones (Rai1,Rai2,Rai3). He also owns a famous newspaper (il Giornale), a huge publishing company (Mondadori), the Mediolanum bank and tons of other stuff I can't even remember.
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helvete




Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 02:06    Post subject:
Wasn't it Mussolini that said "Fascism is the perfect union between state and corporation"? Laughing

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WhiteBarbarian




Posts: 6011
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 02:12    Post subject:
One must strive to find the balance in all things. That makes 84 the best index. 108th - not bad, 24 points from golden mean Very Happy
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helvete




Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 02:27    Post subject:
All things huh? Ok so how many girls have you slept with? 10? 15? I guess you have some dicks to suck then russki.. Wink

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WhiteBarbarian




Posts: 6011
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 04:20    Post subject:
... yeah it is a very long bumpy road, one have to do things that he really don't want to... this is why I wouldn't be able to achieve it Very Happy Laughing Cool Face

EDIT: fixed veeery bad typo Smile
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swingman




Posts: 3602
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 05:01    Post subject:
ixigia wrote:
Absolutely. He directly owns 3 of 6 main Tv channels ( the infamous Mediaset company) and "indirectly" influences the other 3 ones (Rai1,Rai2,Rai3). He also owns a famous newspaper (il Giornale), a huge publishing company (Mondadori), the Mediolanum bank and tons of other stuff I can't even remember.


Regardless of how much control he has over the media, some of the things he says are so ridiculous that no amount of spin can make him look good. When Bush said something stupid it reflected on the whole nation and people now consider it a given that 'Americans = stupid'. By the same token Italians must be even more stupid to elect and re-elect this guy. What the hell is wrong with the people in Italy? Scratch Head
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere



Posts: 65093
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 14:26    Post subject:
swingman wrote:
ixigia wrote:
Absolutely. He directly owns 3 of 6 main Tv channels ( the infamous Mediaset company) and "indirectly" influences the other 3 ones (Rai1,Rai2,Rai3). He also owns a famous newspaper (il Giornale), a huge publishing company (Mondadori), the Mediolanum bank and tons of other stuff I can't even remember.


Regardless of how much control he has over the media, some of the things he says are so ridiculous that no amount of spin can make him look good. When Bush said something stupid it reflected on the whole nation and people now consider it a given that 'Americans = stupid'. By the same token Italians must be even more stupid to elect and re-elect this guy. What the hell is wrong with the people in Italy? Scratch Head

It's something that outruns every human comprehension. Seriously, I've asked myself the same questions several times, but I really can't find a decent answer.
Everytime he does/says something incredibly stupid (and believe me, it happens everyday) a massive media campaign starts in order to instantly save his ass: what does this "campaign" do? Nothing. All the italian news services (except the small Rai3's news bc) magically ignore him, dedicating their precious time to insignificant news and gossip: this magic wheel shows why I was talking about media control and his infamous, antidemocratic "conflict of interest", which is active from 1994. If you add that around 30% of the Italian people still don't have an internet access, and their only way to know news is called TV, you can understand why the power of controlling media is one of Berlusconi's best strengths.
The lack of a true, compact, Democratic opposition was another crucial point though, helping B. to mantain his elections alive for nearly 15 years. But this fact doesn't justify what is happening and it's not only a matter of stupid things said/done; a heavier shadow envelopes him: it has been proved that B. had several "contacts" with some of the most influent mafia bosses, corrupted judges and customs officers, illegally transfered large sums of money to offshores companies and used public servicies/money for private operations.
But don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not defending the Italians. "Their" stupidity is proved, even if partially helped by the things I mentioned above. Wink
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swingman




Posts: 3602
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 18:21    Post subject:
They have news on Italian TV? Shocked Razz The little that I've seen of it seems to be just pretty girls on game shows being groped by old male hosts and a lot of shouting 'bella' and 'bellisima'. Very Happy

This is just my opinion but Italy seems to be 50 years behind (in attitudes on things like abortion, religion, etc) the other western european nations and the women there are 100 years behind. That doesn't mean that politicians in those countries are not corrupt. On the contrary people like Kohl, Mitterrand, etc have had corruption allegations/investigations silenced using special presidential immunity laws. In fact politicians today seem to be having lifestyles of billionaire playboys. People like Sarkozy and Berlosconi seem to think they are some emperors to be worshipped.

Atleast you're honest enough to admit the obvious truth instead of defending the indefensible out of misplaced patriotism. There's still hope for the country. Very Happy
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere



Posts: 65093
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat, 19th Sep 2009 19:11    Post subject:
swingman wrote:
They have news on Italian TV? Shocked Razz The little that I've seen of it seems to be just pretty girls on game shows being groped by old male hosts and a lot of shouting 'bella' and 'bellisima'. Very Happy

The little part of Italian TV you've seen IS the official Italian TV. This doesn't surprise me since I don't watch it anymore except some (rarely broadcasted) football matches.

swingman wrote:

This is just my opinion but Italy seems to be 50 years behind (in attitudes on things like abortion, religion, etc) the other western european nations and the women there are 100 years behind.

Yep, you got the point. But, as you know, Vatican had (and still has) a huge influence over politics and moral. (I won't say anything else about Vatican&co. just because I don't want to appear as the usual dissident atheist Razz).

swingman wrote:

That doesn't mean that politicians in those countries are not corrupt. On the contrary people like Kohl, Mitterrand, etc have had corruption allegations/investigations silenced using special presidential immunity laws. In fact politicians today seem to be having lifestyles of billionaire playboys. People like Sarkozy and Berlosconi seem to think they are some emperors to be worshipped.

Atleast you're honest enough to admit the obvious truth instead of defending the indefensible out of misplaced patriotism. There's still hope for the country. Very Happy

Oh, sure. There's always a hope.

 Spoiler:
 

Very Happy
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