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 Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 20:54 Post subject: when marketing fucks up story telling |
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who've noticed the low quality of story telling in the majority of latest hollywood flicks
now it seems the only point of making a movie is to put the hero and a hot chick for 15 years old boys to go all nuts about " OMG she'S HOT OMG OMG OMG" and really simple plots that there isn't much going on
it also seems that no matter how shitty a story is if there's an A name in it and the CGI is high production the rating will go up high in a second ( Hancock , I am legend , I robot , transformers ...etc)
now I don't want to play the nostalgia card but where are the days of like "falling down" now that's a great movie where there's actually a story with a meaning, ask anyone what are his fav movies of all time (except 15 years old horny boys) the majority will start naming titles that are at least a decade old
the larger an entertainment business becomes the shittier it gets , that's my opinion
production companies seem to crappify the story as much as they can so they can get the largest audience possible and make money or squeeze a franchise with sequels until it totally dies and becomes a walking zombie , I don't blame them , it's business and the point is making as much money as possible , but it sucks and the movies art has lost its soul and now is all about $ and "hot celebrities" who are in reality as educated as a turtle
not that they're not entertaining , they are but they're just the same stuff we've seen many times before, and I mean MANY times before
but of course there are still few good titles every now and then thankfully , but too bad they just don't get as much attention as crappy 15 years old stuff
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 20:59 Post subject: |
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Man, the days they made movies like 'The Good, the Bad and the Ugly' are long long long gone, now thats a fucking movie that never grows old, I can watch that shit 15x or 100x and I still enjoy it, thats a movie with a story, acting, great score, balls and plain gritty setting. Plenty more like these, remember the old Jack Nicholson movies(shining, etc), man ooh man where are the days. Even the first Rambo and Terminator rocked beyond anything we have ever seen these days. So yeah you got a point, I'll give ya that.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 21:18 Post subject: |
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same with music it used to be so much better back in the days, at least hip-hop
times change =/
also when was the last time we had a really good movie? i seriously cant think of that moment..
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 21:45 Post subject: |
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| JahLux wrote: |
also when was the last time we had a really good movie? i seriously cant think of that moment.. |
Of course there are some good ones. I can think of a few off the top of my head. In Bruges for example. This however doesn't change the fact that most mainstream movies suck these days.
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 21:57 Post subject: |
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while i know where you re coming from, i disagree. Sure, there are more and more bad and shallow movies being released, but the frequency of great movies was never "high" to begin with. And if you look left and right of the hype you ll actually find alot of GREAT movies every year. Some might just hit a certain nerve without ever being considered truely great in their own right (like absurd comedies like "hank & mike") and others only achieve greatness by being unaccessible to a broader audience (e.g. cult-movies like "brain dead", "pulp fiction", "fight club" or other non-cult movies like "the fountain" etc).
in my opinion the quality, diversity and number of "good movies" has improved, if you only look at the gems out there. Sadly the turds and puke-fests have also become a flood. And even more sadly especially the cheap and unoriginal shit gets all the media hype, so it also works for the idiot-producers (who know that they produce shit, but also that they can sell it with enough advertisement to still make a buck out of it).
There are alot of great movies out there, that dare to tell different stories and you just have to look out a bit for them.
movies that surprised me in the recent past without fitting in a certain genre or an order of any kind:
shortbus
no country for old men
burn after reading
things we lost in the fire
the fountain
hank & mike
dr. horrible (and i usually hate musicals)
the aristocrats
tideland
eternal sunshine of the spotless mind
the nines
but also "hollywood movies" like Hellboy 2 or Stardust were really enjoyable to me.
The above movies all fuck with expectations people have about movies in one way or another and i think thats great, but the majority of people i know doesnt like to think about movies or be surprised or get something unexpected out of it. Most just want entertainment.
And if you re only in it for entertainment, than most likely you ll always have the feeling that it was better in the past, because there are only so many stories in mainstream-movies that are used / even back than it was mainly about a guy and his love-interest in one way or another.
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Hierofan
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 22:33 Post subject: |
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luckly there are directors who still care about what they are doing , who put the art in front of the money
movies that are about to be released and are worth checking out are
Revolutionary Road
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
The Road , but it got bumped
very few american directors tend to do more noncomercial stuff , only a handfull are a-listers
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 23:01 Post subject: |
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most of Clint Eastwood movies are either cinematic masterpieces or outstanding movies.
also, I have to agree on The Fountain, it is one of my hollywood movies to date.
about Shortbus, saw it, imo was just another soft porn movie.
Sunshine may not have a great plot, but that movie certainly doesn't catalog itself as mindless hot bade and tons of action syndrome, those Sun shots are some of the best scenes I've seen in any sci-fi movie.
also you have Donnie Darko and Butterfly Effect and The Jacket who came out not that long ago and they are all really great movies.
I'm sure that if you look harder you'll find many good movies, but of course, for every one good movie you have 1000 shitty ones with no plot whatsoever.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 23:09 Post subject: |
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| FireMaster wrote: | luztifer you don't really disagree with me , that's pretty much my point , I just focused more on the negative side which overcomes the positive one
Burn after reading is a great movie indeed
but here I'm just wondering how the crap stuff makes it that high and people can't see through the high production CGI and A names celebrities 
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well, you re right there. It s marketing bullshit, because they often know that without an active effort to advertise their crap they wouldnt get their invested money back. The problem is, that it works, because enough people are gullible enough to go with it... ...and as long as there are people willing to pay for shit, shit will be made. I just chose to ignore the stench and look for the good ones, even if it means wading through pools of feces sometimes  |
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Parallax_
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 23:18 Post subject: |
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| FireMaster wrote: | | luztifer you don't really disagree with me , that's pretty much my point , I just focused more on the negative side which overcomes the positive one |
I do somehow agree with you, but I don't think you're getting the point across well. Just to say where I am coming from, I have a great interest in older movies and movies in general, well beyond the mainstream movies. However, there has always been a great number of shit movies over the ages, from the 50s to the 90s to today.
Yes, the landscapes of movies have changes, but not for the better or worse in my opinion. In many ways, movies reflect society and culture, but they always have a story to tell - in a good way or not - but movies are composed of much more than just a story. The difference between now and then, is that the crap movies from the old times, in which there are loads, have faded away from history, there are not many people discussing them. Today, people watch new crap movies all the time, they are being talked about, can be found in cinema and on dvd.
I can't be bothered to list up ancient crap movies, so I'm gonna list up a few good movies from recent years as an example instead:
A Mighty Heart
American Gangster
Gone Baby Gone
Good Night, And Good Luck
Gomorra
In The Valley of Elah
Into The Wild
Michael Clayton
No Country For Old Men
Reign Over Me
There Will Be Blood
The Divingbell And The Butterfly
3:10 To Yuma (yes, western still lives, also see Seraphim Falls and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford)
Eastern Promises
The Fall
The Life Before Her Eyes
Transsiberian
Boy A
In Bruges
The Dark Knight
The Lookout
The Visitor
Tropa De Elite
Before the Devil Knows You're Dead
As you can see, these are only from the recent years. There are many more great movies to pick from post-2000. |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 23:18 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | about Shortbus, saw it, imo was just another soft porn movie.
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well, i guess you could see it like that. But if you compare it with actual softporn it does alot of things very differently. The pornographic stuff actually has something to add to the story and is very powerful that way. Especially since in the u.s. sex nearly never is portrayed in a context of love and relationship but rather either as lust or in the context of violence / rape. So i found it a very interesting way of incorporating sexual imagery into a movie. And i didnt have the feeling that it was pornographic. Actually not even erotic really, just fitting. It just felt like it naturally belonged in it (and was only a small part of it anyways...).
and i loved sunshine and the other movies you mentioned also and would have mentioned them too, if i had thought some more about it =) |
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Nov 2008 23:38 Post subject: |
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Parallax you're right , of course there was crap movies back then, but the industry was still young and CREATIVITY was the essence of a great movie ,not hype
now with today's capabilities a 3 years old can make a crappy movie, but a rich 3 years old can make a crappy movie and make everyone watch it, all the movies you've mentioned are great ones indeed I've watched most of them and gonna check the ones I didn't see
it's a sad thing but it is also to be expected
as lutzifer said all we can do is avoid the stench and pick good ones
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 00:04 Post subject: Re: when marketing fucks up story telling |
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| FireMaster wrote: | (except 15 years old horny boys) the majority will start naming titles that are at least a decade old
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Why single out the boys? Have you ever seen what complete shit teenage girls watch?
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 00:22 Post subject: Re: when marketing fucks up story telling |
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| Praetori wrote: | | FireMaster wrote: | (except 15 years old horny boys) the majority will start naming titles that are at least a decade old
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Why single out the boys? Have you ever seen what complete shit teenage girls watch? |
I have no interest in pink romance movies and so I disregarded them
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 05:17 Post subject: Re: when marketing fucks up story telling |
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| Praetori wrote: | | Why single out the boys? Have you ever seen what complete shit teenage girls watch? |
case in fucking point.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0962726/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1099212/
teenage females have destroyed movies.
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 05:19 Post subject: |
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Ummm. NO!
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 05:55 Post subject: |
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you homophobe, hahahaha
btw. i just watched "the mutant chronicles" and it s one of those movies fitting for this thread as it really could have gone with a better story and better production values. It lingers between really great and really bad as if it cannot make up its mind about itself. And there are really great actors in it too. It s a mixture of world war 1 and 3 imagery (think fallout3 post-apokalyptic), mixed with ghosts-of-mars, some religious prophecy crap and quake4. 
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 06:18 Post subject: |
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not a homophobe, watching a guy cum into his own mouth in the first 2 minutes of the movie, not really my thing.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 07:49 Post subject: |
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9 Songs is far better than shortbus.
(in a few posts we will be discussing Gangbang Squad  )
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Nov 2008 12:31 Post subject: |
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| bringiton wrote: | Many asian, especially Japanese movies have great stories and characters. But unfortunately most of them have really low production values and/or bad actors. Also I just can't really indentify with a japanese main character (not to be racist, but that's just the way it is).
Some movies get remade in the US, but most of them suck even more after that... |
have you tried Memories of Matsuko or Shimotsuma Monogatari?
btw, the really best Japanese movies aren't mainstream, not even in Japan, most of the times they are not well known because they are watched by a very small minority in Japan, unfortunely, Japanese b-boys and most importantly teenage girls are responsible for +90% of the total demand, that's why Japanese art is suffering the same that the U.S. is suffering a little longer ago. In Japan when you exclude the teenages, what do you have left?, the workaholics that are being explored into working 12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week (and don't really have any time left to watch anything, or when they do, they just want to watch something pointless and funny in order for them not to feel so miserable and depressed), what you really have left is the rich people who don't really have anything to do, and is this small minority that is really responsible for the production/demand of the real perfection of the Japanese art.
With South Korea is a little different, most of their productions are some of the very best emotive movies I have ever seen, you don't need to look that hard to find a Korean masterpiece.
as for your statement of being unable to relate to asian characters, I think that really has to do, with the acting quality of the movies that you saw, I have seen some Asian movies with a great plot but the acting was just abismal, this can be justified by the budget of the production company being looking for the most cheap actors, some of them never ever acted before.
I honestly don't have that problem, when watching a movie and the acting is above average, I'm able to relate with the character, no matter is race, language, and social/political/religious status.
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zipfero
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Nov 2008 03:01 Post subject: |
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Studios have balls. They just need money to keep shaving them.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Nov 2008 03:17 Post subject: |
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 that explains alot, if not everything Especially since i m not a big fan of shaved balls anyways, hahahah |
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Nov 2008 11:36 Post subject: |
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it's just sad to see that good movies like "traitor" as an example get pwnd byBeverly Hills Chihuahua and Highschool musical 3 as they stay in the box office much much longer
just to show the audience the industry is more focused on
as for asian movies I liked some and most of them were Chinese with jet li or Jackie Chan , some korean movies with unknown actors and japanese ,
but I think japan has the worst actors ever
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Nov 2008 12:19 Post subject: |
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i have seen some really great japanese movies with great acting. I think it s the deindividualized culture that makes japanese people look like they act stiff, while they are just portraying common behaviour. The only thing that puts me off of japanese movies is all the rape that tends to creep into their movies
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Nov 2008 12:45 Post subject: |
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japanese want to be seen as weird. It s a cultural thing really. At least that s what i got from talking to japanese people and / or people who have worked there.
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lhzr
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