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Veki
Posts: 381
Location: Croatia
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 Posted: Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 08:26 Post subject: AMD’s Radeon 4xxx series soon in production |
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| Quote: | Mountain House (CA) – Unlike the ATI that we knew before, it appears that AMD’s graphics division is running perfectly these days – and ahead of deadlines. Even though the graphics unit has posted an $8 million loss in the first quarter of this year – in an effort to improve market share rather than average selling prices - the graphics business is making progress: We hear the company has struck gold with the RV770 and will be bring the chip to market earlier than expected.
AMD’s next graphics cards are being prepared for launch: During the Q1 earnings call, president and chief operating officer Dirk Meyer stated that the company will roll out a significant number of products in May and our sources now confirmed that the introductions will include desktop and mobile (M88) graphics parts.
RV770 will launch as Radeon 4800 and will make its way into the FireStream stream processor and FireGL workstation cards. Both GDDR3 and GDDR5 memory will be supported by the chip, but ATI itself will only be offering GDDR5 cards. The Radeon 4850 version is set to come to market with an 800+ MHz core (the final clock has not been specified yet and will not be available until the final qualification is completed), while the 4870 will be the first mass-production GPU with a clock speed higher than 1 GHz. Prototype RV770 boards were clocked at about 1.05 GHz.
The graphics processor itself will integrate more texture memory units (TMUs), which is the Achilles' heel of the R6xx generation: 32 TMUs in the RV770 will challenge the 56/64 units of Nvidia’s G92/G92b.
The new graphics card generation is expected to become available to system integrators and OEMs in GDDR3/GDDR5 variants with 256/512/1024 MB buffers. 256 MB GDDR3 cards are exclusively targeted at OEMs (as well as ODMs, Sis) and are unlikely to shop up in retail. Expect to see mainly 512 MB GDDR5 cards in retail for both the 4850 and 4870. Just like the GPU, the memory clock isn't set in stone either, but we were told that the GDDR5 memory is currently running at a physical clock of 1.8 - 2.2 GHz.
With a 256-bit memory controller, we're talking about 115 to 141 GB/s of bandwidth. This number equals the memory bandwidth record set by the 2900XT 1GB GDDR4 (512-bit interface with GDDR4 at 1.1 GHz DDR).
While we expect the desktop boards to be announced soon, RV770-based FireGL boards will not be introduced until Siggraph 2008, which will open its doors on August 11. |
Source : TG Daily
I'm curious to see how will they compete with NVidia GT200 chip.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commisssioner Pravin Lal
"U.N. Declaration of Rights"
Last edited by Veki on Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 09:05; edited 1 time in total
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CaptainCox
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 08:43 Post subject: |
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Yup same here. Especially as i have a Intel Mobo now...Crossfire could be an option 
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Serben
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 16:55 Post subject: |
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| Serben wrote: | Fuck, now i have even more of a dilemma. Do i buy one of these when they come out, or do i wait for the next gen Nvidia cards to see which is better?  |
always wait  , then a little bit longer to let prices drop |
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Przepraszam
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Veki
Posts: 381
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Thu, 24th Apr 2008 10:33 Post subject: |
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Specifications revealed.
| Quote: | Specifications: 480 stream processors, 800+ million transistors
Let’s have a look at the general specifications of the Radeon 4800 series, which is based on the RV770 graphics processor. The new GPU has 480 stream processors or shader units (96+384), 32 Texture units (up from 16), 16 ROP (same as 2900/3800), a 256-bit memory controller and native GDDR3/4/5 support (expect GDDR3 and GDDR5 memory versions of RV770 cards).
The transistor count has jumped from 666 million in the RV670 to more than 800 million transistors in the RV770.
The manufacturing process has been carried over: TSMC is producing the GPUs in 55 nm (the process itself is called 55GC).
ATI’s RV770 will be rated at a fill rate of 20.8-27.2 GTexel/s (excluding X2 version), which is on the lower end of the GeForce 9 series (9600 GT: 20.8; 9800 GTX: 43.2 9800 GX2: 76.8 ).
The Radeon 4850 will debut with a GPU clocked at 650 MHz, while the shader array will be clocked 850 MHz. The 4870 has an 850 MHz core and a 1050 MHz shader clock. The fill-rate is closely tied to the GPU clock: The 4850 sports a fill-rate of 20.8 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.65 GHz), while the 4870 achieves a 27.2 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.85 GHz) performance.
The RV770 GPU is equipped with a 256-bit memory controller (512-bit for the Radeon 4870 X2: The R700 represents just two RV770 GPUs slapped together). 4850 GDDR3 models will come with 256 MB or 512MB of GDDR3 memory, clocked at 1.14 GHz (2.29 GTransfer/s), resulting in a memory bandwidth of 73.2 GB/s. 4850 GDDR5 versions integrate 512 MB of GDDR5 memory clocked at 1.73 GHz (3.46 GT/s), supporting a bandwidth of 110.5 GB/s. 4870 GDDR5 models will get 1 GB of memory clocked at 1.94 GHz (3.87 GT/s), achieving a maximum bandwidth of 123.8 GB/s.
The 4850 256MB GDDR3 version will arrive as the successor of the 3850 256MB with a price in the sub-$200 range. The 4850 512MB GDDR3 should retail for $229, the 4850 512MB GDDR5 will set you back about $249-269. The big daddy, the 1GB GDDR5 powered 4870 will retail between $329-349.
When it will become available the 4870 X2 will hit the market for $499.
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Source : Tom's Hardware
Memory bandwidth and power envelope are nice, but I expected more in fill rate.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commisssioner Pravin Lal
"U.N. Declaration of Rights"
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Thu, 24th Apr 2008 10:45 Post subject: |
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Looks nothing impressive really. I'd wait for nV's next beast.
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Veki
Posts: 381
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Thu, 15th May 2008 08:54 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | According To AMD’s current introduction schedule, the Radeon 4800 series will launch in week 25, which puts the day of the introduction somewhere between June 15 and June 22. What is significant about this time frame is that ATI will trail Nvidia and their new high-end chip GT200.
ATI’s Radeon 4800 series will be introduced in three flavors - as 4850, 4870 and 4870 X2. The company will also offer a “4850 256MB” (as opposed to 512 MB in other versions), but this SKU is a so-called "option" and is geared towards to the OEM/ODM/SI crowd to support them with cheaper parts for the back-to-school period and beyond.
In terms of performance, we heard some interesting claims. A 4870 should perform on par with or better than a dual-chip 3870 X2. Our sources explained to us that using a PCIe Gen1 controller 3870 X2 was a mistake, since the board was hungry for data and didn’t sync well with this interface. Don’t expect the ATI team to repeat that mistake with the 4870 X2. However, we admit that we have no idea what kind of connection two RV770 GPUs will have. |
Source : Tom's Hardware
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commisssioner Pravin Lal
"U.N. Declaration of Rights"
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| Posted: Thu, 15th May 2008 21:49 Post subject: |
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Somehow I doubt that this cards will be any better, ATI/AMD says that their cards will be super, ultra, cool, fast etc. And then when it comes it's still worse on benchmark vs. GF8800GT 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 00:28 Post subject: |
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They were kings for only one generation - the GF FX generation. nV beat them with both the GF4 series and GF6 series. The x800 series there ATi's lowest point, when they said "oh, sm3.0 is nonsense, no one needs that, you just buy our shit," and made so many people unhappy when games started using SM3.0 exclusively.
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 04:37 Post subject: |
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im sure the r420 was rather old before the first sm3.0 exclusive game came along.
what was the first sm3.0 only game? im sure the x800 was atleast 2 years old by then.
x800 was atleast as fast as the nearest nvidia card at the time aswell which would have been something in the 6600 series if i remember right
anyway ati's lowest point would have been the 8500 i would imagine
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 04:53 Post subject: |
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6800 was better than the x800.
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 05:24 Post subject: |
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x800 XT beat the 6800 ultra in all but open gl and the x800 has far less costly AA and AF (on some of the benchmarks it looks like the 6800gt is the winner until they up the resolution and add aa and af , x800 stayed consitent with barely any hit unlike the 6800)
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2044&p=1
check the comments to everyone is commenting on how x800 is better.
even the x800 pro beat the 6800GT in some of the benchmarks.
not to mention part of the article is about a 6850 nvidia is trying to get out quick to beat the x800..
| Quote: | | On the verge of ATI's R420 GPU launch, NVIDIA brought out a new card called the GeForce 6850 Ultra. This new card is to be sold as an OEM overclocked part (ala the "Golden Sample" and other such beasts), and will be able to run at 450MHz+ core and 1.1GHz+ memory clock speeds. It is very clear to us getting this board out here right now was a bit of a rush for NVIDIA, and it would seem that they didn't expect to see the kind of performance ATI's X800 series can deliver. We were unable to get drivers installed and running on our 6850 Ultra card until about two hours ago, but we will be following this article up with an update to the data as soon as we are able to benchmark the card. The 6850 Ultra looks exactly the same as the 6800 Ultra (it really is the same card with an overclock), so we'll forego the pictures. |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 05:30 Post subject: |
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Hmm, well OK then, but still, I prefer to have a lower framerate and still be able to play, as opposed to nothing (no sm3.0).  And you say what games used SM3.0? All the ones that had real HDR (not Valve crap) required SM3.0.
Doesn't matter anyway, AMD as a whole sucks balls at the moment, and that's what counts.
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 05:37 Post subject: |
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how many people do you think were running x800's and 6800's when bioshock , rainbow six vegas etc came out? i doubt it was that many, i was probably one of the few who didnt bother upgrading.
i had an x800 until just a few months ago infact and i think there was a total of 5 games i couldnt play.
currently got an 8800gts waiting to see what the next gen brings but will probably go back to ati anyway im not a big fan of the nvidia drivers.
the only games i can remember that i couldnt play were bioshock , juiced 2 , rainbos six vegas and the lost game.
HDR was optional, nearly every game with it still suported sm2.0 just the hdr option was greyed out, its not like a 6800 is powerful enough to do hdr anyway, remember it was quite some time after those cards release when hdr came around
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 05:50 Post subject: |
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I remember using SM3.0 (and HDR) in SCCT, Far Cry and others. So maybe optional but much better.
And dude, I was doing HDR on my 6600GT. So in a way, even my 6600GT was better than that shit x800, even if I was running everything at 40fps and you at 60.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 07:55 Post subject: |
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That's not real HDR, that's fake integer-based approximation which Valve mistakenly called HDR which looks like crap when compared to real, floating point based rendering. That's why I said this:
| LeoNatan wrote: | | All the ones that had real HDR (not Valve crap) required SM3.0. |
But no one seems to read. 
For the biased thing I have to say, I had a 9800Pro before I replaced it with a 6600GT, and I had a 4000+ CPU before I went with C2D. I am a fanboi of whatever is good. That 6600GT served me very well for about a year, and it ran almost all games excellent for its price (as opposed to the current mid-range shit nV has put out, like the 8600 or 9600).
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| Posted: Fri, 16th May 2008 15:32 Post subject: |
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I didn't say ATI/AMD sucked ass, I was fan of them both, but lately they're always saying things like that to try to hype their sales... I'm just saying the facts. Their cards aren't bad at all, they cost less than GF, and offer satisfying performance, but ever since the merger ATI+AMD tings went downhill for both... If the tables will turn that will be a good thing because of the competition (which results in better products)...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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$en$i
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| Posted: Sat, 17th May 2008 04:21 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | I remember using SM3.0 (and HDR) in SCCT |
Yeah i remember some ATi people going crazy for not being able to have SM3.0 shadows, hehe. This said let's hope ATi will come back with competitive products to drag the prices down.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 17th May 2008 04:47 Post subject: |
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Yeah, and back then Ubi was a respectable PC developer, so they went on to make a SM2.0 patch to please the people that were dumb enough not to buy proper cards...
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| Posted: Sat, 17th May 2008 07:25 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | Yeah, and back then Ubi was a respectable PC developer, so they went on to make a SM2.0 patch to please the people that were dumb enough not to buy proper cards... |
i remember when nvidia didnt support ps1.4 but ati did in the 8500, nvidia was stuck at 1.2
| Quote: | | R200 introduced pixel shader version 1.4, a significant revision to the 1.x pixel shader design. Whereas PS1.2 and 1.3 were just improvements to PS1.1, PS1.4 changed things around quite significantly. Notable instructions include "phase", "texcrd", and "texld". The phase instruction allows a shader to operate on two separate "phases" (2 passes through the hardware), effectively doubling the maximum number of texture addressing and arithmetic instructions, and potentially allowing the number of passes required for an effect to be reduced. This allowed not only more complicated effects, but can also allow a speed boost by utilizing the hardware more efficiently |
nvidia never missed a beat though right
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 17th May 2008 07:33 Post subject: |
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 They never went to say "oh it's useless" and sell some shitty cards, right? When they released the GF4 line, that technology wasn't available, and the next thing they released was the FX line which was already at SM2.0 levels. Stop posting ATI fanboi BS and get your facts straight. What ATI did was foul, especially when a few months after the release of the x800 cards, they started talking the x1800 cards, which, surprise surprise, had support for SM3.0.
Another important point is, by the time 1.4 was introduced, DirectX 9 was already announced and well underway, so it wasn't as important as SM3.0.
Be a man and admit ATI did a foul move on its customers, just like I'm saying the FX line was a horrendous shit. |
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CaptainCox
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2008 12:43 Post subject: |
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Some updates on the RV770
| Quote: | RV770PRO can work at an astonishing 900MHz. This implies that RV770XT should work even faster. RV770PRO could be called Radeon 4850 512MB, but we are still not sure if this is the fixed and final name. This looks to be the right name.
Memory works at up to 1000MHz and we are talking about the 256-bit GDDR3 memory. The sample cards are up and running, and as was the case with previous cards, RV770 has power play and can download the card all the way to 500MHz and save some power. The sample card comes with 512MB GDDR3 memory.
Remember that ATI is about to sample RV770XT, the fastest version of the same chip that will come matched with GDDR5 memory.
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SOURCE
And more stuff here
More RV770PRO details
Looks like a true alternative to the new NV GTX280
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2008 15:37 Post subject: |
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They are, in that regard, but their cards are so slow, they can't even run SM4.0 So what's the point?
Why are you looking for stupid arguing with me? You want to live in a fantasy where AMD is better, whatever, why are you dragging me in this stupid thing? Jeez!
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2008 15:49 Post subject: |
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Don't tell me you compare the SM2.0->SM3.0 jump to SM4.0->SM4.1 jump. 
Anyway, I'm done talking about this shit. Tired of all this SM crap. Getting a 360 for exactly that reason - I have everything I need for the next 3+ years.
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