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Cheez-It
Posts: 1106
Location: Rochester, NY
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 Posted: Sun, 10th Dec 2006 18:29 Post subject: My experiences as a Linux Newbie |
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Sigh.
So.
I've been into computers for a long time, and am now in school for Networking, Security, and System Administration, work that will require a far more in depth knowledge of Linux/Unix environments than I currently have.
I've attempted to try it several times, and it always seems to have problems.
1.) I go for a simple distro, Ubuntu. I download, burn, and see it say loading with no problem. Fails to boot. I read that apparently, YOU CAN'T HAVE A USB MOUSE? I'm assuming it has since been fixed, and there are obviously work arounds for the experience linux people, but for anyone else, this is a big problem. Anyone/group who fucks up this big must be retarded, so I go with Debian, the ditro Ubuntu is based on.
2.) Things go relatively smoothly. I get the hang of KDE (I was already somewhat familiar with bash)... But it's really slow. And my Creative X-Fi will not work. Lo and behold, after hours of work I can't figure out how to get graphics drivers working, nor sound card drivers, so I decide to wait until I need it.
3.) I take a course in sys admin. Red Hat or Fedora is used. I pick Fedora because we'll be using it in the lab. First, Fedora Core 5 installer starts up, I check the media to ensure it's good, and off I go. Wait... It gets stuck and tells me... IT CAN'T FIND THE DAMN DVD IT'S RUNNING ON? I didn't trouble shoot long and decided to simply go with Fedora Core 6. I download, burn, start up the installer. It hangs with an odd IRQ error. I try two times before I notice a line telling me to try adding the irqpoll parameter when I start the install sequence. I do. It moves past, and starts to load the graphical installer. Hangs. I try noprobe, keyboard won't work. I try skipddc (skip monitor probe) it hangs. For some strange reason, adding resolution=1024x768 worked, even though this monitor works with every god damned resolution you could think of. It worked. I go throught the configuration of partitions and packages... and it hangs on 4 minutes of install left. an hour or so down the drain. I try again, disabling the package it froze on (keep in mind I CHECKED THE GOD DAMNED DVD TO SEE IF THE MEDIA WAS OK!!!!) and it worked like a charm. I take the DVD out and boot up in Fedora!
Hangs at IRQ #169 disabled (same as install before)...
So now I've booted up in Windows to look up how to add a boot line parameter (I'm assuming just in grub...).
So yeah.
This is why my main box will NOT be Linux for a long time. I don't have time to screw around with crap that could easily be automated or fixed by whomever designed it.
At this point, I got some sleep, rather annoyed.
4.) Fedora Core 6 up and running after inserting irqpoll parameter
5.) I update packages it tells me are out of date (new feature in FC). Freezes in the middle.
6.) I update packages again (All 156)... This time it works. It never says I need to do them seperately, and it worked this time, so I'm assuming this wasn't the problem. I reboot (Kernel was updated).
7.) Freezes on initialization. Reboot.
8.) After clicking Session>KDE it freezes as I'm about to type my username. Reboot.
9.) I get in. Load up Firefox to post here from Linux. It freezes.
10.) Back to Windows.
And they say Windows is unstable. PFFFT. (I know Fedora is *not* a stable release, but still! Kinda ridiculous)
I love all the people expounding Linux as a potential great (free) new option for everyone.
This post is mostly in reforandum to all the assholes who reply to Windows Vista problem/posts with the answer similar to "Use Linux" (Not these forums per se, but all over the net).
<3
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Dec 2006 19:04 Post subject: Re: My experiences as a Linux Newbie |
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Lets see what i can help with..
| Cheez-It wrote: | | 1.) I go for a simple distro, Ubuntu. I download, burn, and see it say loading with no problem. Fails to boot. I read that apparently, YOU CAN'T HAVE A USB MOUSE? I'm assuming it has since been fixed, and there are obviously work arounds for the experience linux people, but for anyone else, this is a big problem. Anyone/group who fucks up this big must be retarded, so I go with Debian, the ditro Ubuntu is based on. |
Ubuntu works fine with USB devices, I can't say I have ever had ubuntu not boot after an initial install.. Even more so now that they have moved from an "installation" to a live CD based installation.. The OS boots from the disk and you choose to then install it, this allows you to get an idea of how well it will run before you install.
| Cheez-It wrote: | | 2.) Things go relatively smoothly. I get the hang of KDE (I was already somewhat familiar with bash)... But it's really slow. And my Creative X-Fi will not work. Lo and behold, after hours of work I can't figure out how to get graphics drivers working, nor sound card drivers, so I decide to wait until I need it. |
The creative XFI wont work until creative release information on the card or some closed source drivers.. the last update on this was June of this year and they stated the closed drivers would be released 2nd quarter 2007. This is creatives fuck up and nothing can be done about it until they get off there arses. Graphics driver installs are pretty simple within ubuntu (and debian once you have the GUI working ok).. there are hundreds of tutorials on the ubuntu forums for doing this.. So long as you have a newish card it should work flawlessly.
| Cheez-It wrote: | 3.) I take a course in sys admin. Red Hat or Fedora is used. I pick Fedora because we'll be using it in the lab. First, Fedora Core 5 installer starts up, I check the media to ensure it's good, and off I go. Wait... It gets stuck and tells me... IT CAN'T FIND THE DAMN DVD IT'S RUNNING ON? I didn't trouble shoot long and decided to simply go with Fedora Core 6. I download, burn, start up the installer. It hangs with an odd IRQ error. I try two times before I notice a line telling me to try adding the irqpoll parameter when I start the install sequence. I do. It moves past, and starts to load the graphical installer. Hangs. I try noprobe, keyboard won't work. I try skipddc (skip monitor probe) it hangs. For some strange reason, adding resolution=1024x768 worked, even though this monitor works with every god damned resolution you could think of. It worked. I go throught the configuration of partitions and packages... and it hangs on 4 minutes of install left. an hour or so down the drain. I try again, disabling the package it froze on (keep in mind I CHECKED THE GOD DAMNED DVD TO SEE IF THE MEDIA WAS OK!!!!) and it worked like a charm. I take the DVD out and boot up in Fedora!
Hangs at IRQ #169 disabled (same as install before)...
So now I've booted up in Windows to look up how to add a boot line parameter (I'm assuming just in grub...).
So yeah.
This is why my main box will NOT be Linux for a long time. I don't have time to screw around with crap that could easily be automated or fixed by whomever designed it.
At this point, I got some sleep, rather annoyed.
4.) Fedora Core 6 up and running after inserting irqpoll parameter
5.) I update packages it tells me are out of date (new feature in FC). Freezes in the middle.
6.) I update packages again (All 156)... This time it works. It never says I need to do them seperately, and it worked this time, so I'm assuming this wasn't the problem. I reboot (Kernel was updated).
7.) Freezes on initialization. Reboot. |
Both redhat and fedora SUCK. That can be my only comment on the matter other than the fact that they are bloated broken crap that people should keep away from.
My main machine is running linux and has no issues at all, the thing took about an hour to setup, get GFX drivers working, install Beryl and other apps that I wanted and bam.. no problems since. As soon as creative move with the X-FI drivers I will be using linux 100%.. Users always blame the OS when 99% of the time its there own fault  .
| Cheez-It wrote: | 8.) After clicking Session>KDE it freezes as I'm about to type my username. Reboot.
9.) I get in. Load up Firefox to post here from Linux. It freezes.
10.) Back to Windows.
And they say Windows is unstable. PFFFT. (I know Fedora is *not* a stable release, but still! Kinda ridiculous)
I love all the people expounding Linux as a potential great (free) new option for everyone.
This post is mostly in reforandum to all the assholes who reply to Windows Vista problem/posts with the answer similar to "Use Linux" (Not these forums per se, but all over the net).
<3 |
People should say "use linux well" instead .. With a tiny bit of effort linux is a far more rewarding and better OS, its simply the fact that people don't want to put effort into using a computer.. in that respect windows does win. Both windows and Linux have there place in the world, people simply need to find which is right for them. In the long run however, linux is far more powerful, far more customizable and far easier to use (once past the setup) than windows is at this time (both XP and Vista).
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Cheez-It
Posts: 1106
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Dec 2006 20:22 Post subject: |
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With regards to Ubuntu: The installation is where the problem cropped up. It started booting from the CD and stopped at some point. I hit their forums or support (forgot which) and they explained that USB devices could not be connected or else this would occur. USB devices including mice/keyboards. They offered lengthy workarounds, but I was in a bit of a rush to get it up and running before all of my classes started.
Wish I could use a distro other than Fedora or Red Hat, but that's what the class will be running, so I figured it would be the easiest to use.
I was doing it more of a learn on your own thing, we're going to be using some sort of emulation where you remote connect to one of their servers and use VM (they have very powerful boxes, and didn't want to make students pay for anything) to run things.
I'll give it another try after I learn more about it 
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Dec 2006 22:27 Post subject: Re: My experiences as a Linux Newbie |
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| [sYn] wrote: | | With a tiny bit of effort linux is a far more rewarding and better OS, its simply the fact that people don't want to put effort into using a computer.. in that respect windows does win. Both windows and Linux have there place in the world, people simply need to find which is right for them. In the long run however, linux is far more powerful, far more customizable and far easier to use (once past the setup) than windows is at this time (both XP and Vista). |
Why should people take so much effort into an OS just to make it run, it's a waste of time, especially in business! We have a big new server system coming, and we tested the server software on Solaris, Windows and Linux (SLES and Red Hat ES), and Linux was by far the biggest piece of crap code to run it on. We tried ages to get some real performace out of it and ended up tweaking SCSI and FC configs, whereas Windows Server and Solaris outperformed Linux out of the box by far.
The only reason Linux is popular is because most of the distros are free and hardware to run Unix on is too expensive. I mean look at the amount of patches released for SLES or Red Hat ES, way more than for Windows Server.
Sadly i have to admin some linux based servers at work, but i would never install any linux on my desktop, ssh is all i need.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Dec 2006 23:18 Post subject: Re: My experiences as a Linux Newbie |
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| whoKnows wrote: | | [sYn] wrote: | | With a tiny bit of effort linux is a far more rewarding and better OS, its simply the fact that people don't want to put effort into using a computer.. in that respect windows does win. Both windows and Linux have there place in the world, people simply need to find which is right for them. In the long run however, linux is far more powerful, far more customizable and far easier to use (once past the setup) than windows is at this time (both XP and Vista). |
Why should people take so much effort into an OS just to make it run, it's a waste of time, especially in business! We have a big new server system coming, and we tested the server software on Solaris, Windows and Linux (SLES and Red Hat ES), and Linux was by far the biggest piece of crap code to run it on. We tried ages to get some real performace out of it and ended up tweaking SCSI and FC configs, whereas Windows Server and Solaris outperformed Linux out of the box by far.
The only reason Linux is popular is because most of the distros are free and hardware to run Unix on is too expensive. I mean look at the amount of patches released for SLES or Red Hat ES, way more than for Windows Server.
Sadly i have to admin some linux based servers at work, but i would never install any linux on my desktop, ssh is all i need. |
The biggest effort that is needed to get a linux system running is when your trying to get new hardware to work that hasn't already been built into the kernel. This difficulty comes from a lack of information supplied by the manufacturer and has nothing to do with the OS itself. If linux had as much support from manufacturers it would be as easy to install as windows is. As for speed, you cant compare RH ES and SLES to distro's such as debian and BSD, they're a whole other animal, one which performs FAR better. Any distro owned and ran by a large corporation has one thing in mind and thats money, its the same as windows, its not about giving the user what they want and need, its simply about adding features that look good on paper and will persuade more marketing managers that its the right choice to force the IT departments to go with a specific distro.
As for the number of patches, got to say the comment is utterly pointless, patches indicate more than just the bugs they fix, they indicate the number of man hours spent working on fixing such bugs. Ever consider that maybe MS just doesn't bother fixing as much as they should?
Still you do have a good point in many respects, Windows does have a place as I already stated, but I do think some of your thoughts on linux are out dated. As an OS it has made some huge leaps forward in the past year, many of which are completely forgotten (or unheard off) by most every day folk... I would put money on the fact that a correctly installed linux system (with a decent distro ) would perform just as well as a windows box on the same hardware.. I would also put money on a worse system coming up pretty close behind using linux and dying should windows be put on it..
Anyway, we could both argue about this all day and im sure neither of us would change our opinions. Its all down to experience. The more I use linux the more powerful it becomes, but I do remember my first stab at it and really not understanding what the fuss was about (from geek friends and teachers)..
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dr-nix
Posts: 996
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Dec 2006 08:09 Post subject: |
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whoKnows: don't blame linux just because your fellow employes suck at configuring it, sYn does have a point regarding the drivers though more hardware vendors need to supply linux drivers for their hardware.
Also you didn't run X did you ?...
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black | ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | 32 GB Trident Z 3600Mhz | Gigabyte Aorus PCIe4 1TB SSD | Corsair MP510 1TB SSD |ASUS RTX 3080 Ti TUF | Fractal Design Define 7 | Seasonic 850W Platinum
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Dec 2006 08:51 Post subject: |
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I hate Linux or watever Unix Based. Windows FTW!!!11
Sig too big.
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Dec 2006 17:57 Post subject: |
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I honestly wouldn't expect alot of people here to have the inclination or need to run or learn to use Linux in any serious capacity.
Just reading these posts "Linux can't make my coffee, Linux has no control panel like windows" and it's all so clear 'why' Linux won't ever do what some of you lot expect it to 
I especially like these Windows - Linux comparisons; "We installed Linux and Windows and compared their performance, Windows was the clear winner"
As seen by Microsoft funded Gartner Analysts.
Windows is the way to go if you want to play games, but when it comes to network or server performance, with Linux you're only limited by your own limitations and that of the hardware of course.
Understand that it's not Linux's fault when some program or hardware made for Windows doesn't work with Linux, but the manufacturer of said hardware or software.
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| Posted: Tue, 12th Dec 2006 11:43 Post subject: |
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oh, forgot something:
People tend to hate and/or ignore things they don't understand.
linux is a great example of that.
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Cheez-It
Posts: 1106
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue, 12th Dec 2006 18:57 Post subject: |
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I don't hate it, I realize how important and useful it is (I will be using it extensively these next few years and perhaps in my career)... I just found my initial use very, very frustrating. I'm sure once I learn more about it it will prove a more welcoming experience.
To add to the above frustrations: My recent attempts to try again using a successful install of FC6
I boot up Fedora Core 6 (First mistake, but our class is using Fedora, so whatever).
I log in.
I go to install putty, xchat, and azureus.
Freezes. Not "program froze or crashed" but entire computer stops taking input and all functioning ceases.
I reboot.
I do it one at a time.
I install azureus. SUCCESS!
I install X-Chat. Success!!!!
I install Putty.
Freezes on Updating Software.
I reboot again.
Keep in mind Linux takes a long time to boot. My patience is thinner than Kate Moss.
I log in.
I think... I can just use putty on Windows.
I go to start up X-Chat. Enter my nick choices, then add a network. After typing the name, when I attempt to click to solidify the name... FROZEN.
..........
I realize Fedora isn't stable but... jesus! Perhaps my NIC or something is causing it to freeze?
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Tue, 12th Dec 2006 21:55 Post subject: |
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Or badram, try using some badram-sources.
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Cheez-It
Posts: 1106
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue, 12th Dec 2006 23:11 Post subject: |
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| Avenger_ wrote: | Why would you install putty on Linux? Just open a terminal and use ssh. 
On another note, the graphics driver might cause some freezes, check to see which one it's using in xorg.conf and see if there's a better alternative around. |
haha good point, I never even considered this, perhaps I'll go give it another try.
I'll check out the graphics as well, and badram? Indeed. Thanks! |
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Cheez-It
Posts: 1106
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006 22:47 Post subject: |
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Now I can't even boot.
Only odd thing I see while booting up is that Fatal: error inserting acpi_cpufreq No such device
(not exact quote, but very close)
Crayyyzy.
PS: Debian *was* working, I just never bothered setting it up with my graphics card so it was slow at higher res. Using Fedora in class though, so got rid of it.... But I think this means that it's not something like messed up RAM or something similar, because wouldn't Debian have screwed up?
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 10:43 Post subject: |
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| Cheez-It wrote: | Now I can't even boot.
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Thats not Linux' fault.
| Cheez-It wrote: | PS: Debian *was* working, I just never bothered setting it up with my graphics card so it was slow at higher res. Using Fedora in class though, so got rid of it.... But I think this means that it's not something like messed up RAM or something similar, because wouldn't Debian have screwed up?
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Not if they have badram support in the kernel. |
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| Posted: Sun, 31st Dec 2006 21:20 Post subject: |
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Ive been using fedora core 5 for a year now (upgraded to 6, had problems with my wireless card - no ethernet here, so went back to 5). Installs easily, configuration was a pain (wireless again) but 5 has run near flawlessly. Any problems have been a challenge to fix with so much time on my hands though I enjoy trying to get everything to work and have the time to do so. Linux had a steep learning curve so I didnt like it at first, but now, windows - OH GOD KEEP AWAY! If I boot up windows, have to restart a couple of times so the start menu works, running a cracked version because I lost my original cd (found it now but not bothered to reinstall, all it gives me is the updates that I dont need and it will screw up my linux grub boot menu - windows hates everything else). Networking, forget it, doesnt want to work with my laptop no matter what. Heres a good proggie I would like to use once...oh, wait...demo isnt that great and its costly. Im rambling so will elegently shut this: Linux has been great to me (possibly because of older pc, more chance of hardware being supported - linuxes main problem) no way in hell im turning back! And I recommend you try PCLinuxOS - the first distro I tried and when the new version is out will be installing it along with fc5 and windows (its there just in case). Ps. Should this be in the rant section? hehe.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Jan 2007 01:14 Post subject: |
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Guys, what distro would you recommend to start learning linux with? Something easy to setup, but with advanced features...
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Jan 2007 01:18 Post subject: |
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Linux is sort of like the jungle,
if you're too stupid, don't bother.
If you're fairly intelligent, it offers a lot.
My favourite dist? Sabayon
I also think fisk should be unbanned.
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Jan 2007 06:15 Post subject: |
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I would recommend Ubuntu for beginners.
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| Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007 14:12 Post subject: |
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Personally I can't stand linux, and I don't understand why would anyone use it for desktop computer. It's definately great it's free for all the new/small companies who need cheap OS.
I hate people who only use linux so they can say others are too stupid or people who use windows are computer-illiterate or something. But I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone who wants to make something of himself in IT field IS going to be using Windows at the end of his career, because, that's where all the REALLY advanced stuff lies.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007 17:40 Post subject: |
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I actually tried openSuse, and I'm quite like it. I know many have issues with Novell selling their soul to the devil, but it's actually a very good distro.
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| Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007 23:26 Post subject: |
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| [sYn] wrote: | | BearishSun wrote: | Personally I can't stand linux, and I don't understand why would anyone use it for desktop computer. It's definately great it's free for all the new/small companies who need cheap OS.
I hate people who only use linux so they can say others are too stupid or people who use windows are computer-illiterate or something. But I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone who wants to make something of himself in IT field IS going to be using Windows at the end of his career, because, that's where all the REALLY advanced stuff lies. |
You are on drugs..  |
Hehe, well, unless you're gonna be network administrator, you're gonna be working on windows. Linux doesn't support most of the newer technologies. And any company that plans on making big money will be working on and for the widest supported platform, e.g. windows. If I switched to linux right now, I could write off all of my college classes right now.
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| Posted: Tue, 9th Jan 2007 07:07 Post subject: |
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Mission critical servers still run Solaris, AIX or HP-UX these days, Windows is catching up though. Linux isn't gaining that much ground anymore because the major enterprise distros like Red Hat and Suse cost a lot of money now, and being free or cheap was the advantage which made them popular.
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