Ah the obligatory rose tinted nostalgia post arrived. Disagree older games were worse but we just played it anyway.. There was way more innovation not just in graphics but also gameplay than we see today (outside indy developers). I also feel more genres peaked 10-20 years ago. Todays games try incorporate (but doing it in a shallow / meh way) RPG, Loot, Unlock, crafting, survival and building shit in every game rather than just being good at one thing.
City Builders - Simcity 4 still not surpassed.
TBS - Original Xcom still not surpassed, 2KCom is okay though.
RTS - Supcom, SC1+2, AoE2, CnC classics.. The relic games are ok.
Linear FPS - HL2 and F.E.A.R still have the best AI and funnest combat encounters.
Sim FPS - OKay you win, ARMA has got better and better and there is nothing else really like it.
Souls Games - Effectively just challenging gameplay like older games, who would have thought this would be fun?!
Platformers - I'll admit i do occasionally play "new" platformers, but Metroid and C:SOTN are still the king of this genre and new games copy and paste it.
SurvivalDerp - Minecraft, Terraria, Factorio (and 3d derivatives), newer games try copy paste just don't have the content or depth of these 3 titles. We see'ing tons of Rimworld clones now with half the content doomed to stay in EA til people lose interest.
I'll play these older games forever + mods, sure no problems. I can't help but compare new games to them and often pass on newer games because i just know they won't be as good or have as much content than older counterparts.
As proekaan said above, we were just playing whatever we got and was unique to us because, well, everything is new and unique when you are 15. We tolerated jankness because there wasn't much choice and had time to get used to it. As much as I love Gothic, Freelancer and Silent Hill 2, I found them so frustrating in the first hours that I almost didn't play them.
It wasn't necesarilly that they were unique to us. They were unique, period. 80s and 90s were forging genres out of nothing left and right, so you had countless moments where you were playing something fresh that didnt exist until then. I dont know how you guys did it, but i for sure wasnt playing shit games even when i started, just because i could get my hands on them. You know good games regardless of age or experience. Myself and a few friends were playing Carmaggedon, Commandos, Half Life, Monkey Island, Duke 3d, etc, and we all knew they were special games and this was in a vacuum of information, we didnt use internet at the time. Nobody was telling me Half Life is one of the greatest games in existence or its influence, i could see for myself. I didnt have to read an article telling me Duke 3d is awesome, i could see it for myself when i could shrink enemies and then squash them with my foot. You know this is awesome
Funny thing about your examples above, is that everyone hated Gothic's controls right at launch. Previews in magazines for Gothic 2 were starting with the hope the controls are improved in the sequel because there was no one who didnt complain about them in G1. Same with Silent Hill 2 on PC. Actually the entire sillent hill series didnt really meant much on PC, preciselly because of its ultra console nature and ill suited for PC controls. I never saw a discussion in PC circles about these games at all, in those times. I never saw any fan, ever. Why bother with some poorly made console games when you had hundreds of PC tailored made games ? So your examples are not about games where people were just forced to accept because they didnt know better. They were complaining then as a young guy does now.
Although you lost me with Freelancer, because that game is sublime to play right now as it was then. There are zero issues with it that have to do with age. The game could launch tommorow as is and would be fantastic.
Quote:
Imagine growing up with games like Dying Light, Doom Eternal, Borderlands 3 and try to play Quake 2 or Unreal. I never played Unreal before (except Tournament 1 and 2004) and past 2 years I tried 3 times to play Unreal Gold but I find it too frustrating to play.
I did manage to convince a few younger folks to try Deus Ex 1 or Undying or Thief or Fallout 1. A few struggles with Deus Ex, but after things clicked, it was the best game ever. What i noticed in my experience with younger people trying older games, is that they dont have pacience to adjust to controls that are, not bad, not worse - just different. They get used to the modern standard and absolutely everything that is just the tiny bit different, its shit. Unplayable. Didnt age well. The slightest deviation from the modern standard and the game didnt age well. Their loss.
Otherwise, what's wrong with Quake ? Just got released last year to universal acclaim. Its overwhelming positive on steam, the Nightdive release. I myself clocked 56 hours with it without even wanting to, i just couldnt stop playing the game once i started, it's just so good and pure. Even looking at a 12 year old speedrun, i cant see why someone who only knows 2016 or Eternal would be bothered by:
Unreal 1 could frustrate you even at launch, its not an age or taste changing thing. They went overboard with the labyrinth level design to the point where a lot of levels feel like the designers were actively trying to stop your progression. Its still an awesome experience, with a great atmosphere.
Strafe Jumping? Bunny Hopping!? but where is my awesome button QTE Godmode+HP+unlimAmmo spmaming key? Just shooting stuff and aiming this hasn't aged well
I gave Gothic, SH and RE as examples exactly because they always have had terrible controls. When some newer game is like this, usually there is "played for 10 minutes, refunded, what a piece of s**t game". Maybe rightfully but then again how can you know without playing more. Most old games had such bad controls. FFS, one of the best RPG games for 1999 was Silver which is terrible in almost every way compared to Hades. Or Legacy of Kain is not even close to Devil May Cry 5.
The problem with Freelancer was it took few hours to take off, like most of the older games (or Japanese games with 2 hours cinematics/talking and 10 minutes gameplay). It had shooting and escorting at the beginning but when the whole game opened was where it started getting good.
AmpegV4 wrote:
You have pointed many games released in the last 12 years. These should count in the "new games" category. Minecraft, Terraria, Factorio, Rimworld, Souls games are all "new".
Because we can't take 30 years of games in "old games category" and 2 years for "new games" and say "but there's only 3 good modern games". Most years have 3-5 "best" games. It would be a big exception if 2021-2022 had 10 great games like Elden Ring.
And for the FPS, I'd personally choose Dead Island, Dying Light or Deus Ex: HR over most shooters before 2010. Even a small and relatively unknown game called Singularity (but tbh, this one is on the fence between "old" and "new") over Half-Life 2. Only Aliens vs Predator, Deus Ex, Thief and System Shock (which is also janky) are arguably on par or better.
About platformers, yes, maybe old ones are better but I don't play the genre much and can't say.
And then we have unique games like Death Stranding, Stray, Outer Wilds, Return of the Obra Dinn, What Remains of Edith Finch, Papers Please etc when we talk about "only old games were creative, herp derp". Indies or not, they still count.
And of course many old games are genre defining or exceptional when they were released but many didn't age well or can't even compete to the games released after 2010. Except the RTS's....
But with all that in mind, I'd still say MDK 1 and 2 and Giants: Citizen Kabuto are some of the most interesting and unique games ever made. But not the best.
Sure those three games, Rimworld and the indies you list are great indy games. I would say 80% of the good games i've played in the last 15 years are Indy titles that barely need a GPU.
Quote:
I'd personally choose Dead Island, Dying Light or Deus Ex: HR over most shooters before 2010. Even a small and relatively unknown game called Singularity (but tbh, this one is on the fence between "old" and "new") over Half-Life 2. Only Aliens vs Predator, Deus Ex, Thief and System Shock (which is also janky) are arguably on par or better.
Yep you have very different taste in FPS to me. Thief and System Shock are great games I think they still hold up well today (especially thief where its atmosphere works with the low poly early 3dness of the game). I think Arkanes Prey was kinda like System Shock and a decent game but reportedly didn't sell well.
What's your definition of "aged well" though, because i think those earlier games have superior mechanics and gameplay to their modern counterparts. HL2 AI, Combat, ability to jump, that your not forced onto rails animating all the time, Physics puzzles etc. > any newer Unreal engine yellow glowing press X to watch animation crap that's come since. I feel the same with dying lights press X to parkour all over the screen shit, actually jumping, sliding, crouching, hopping is more engaging.
Half Life 2 with the MMod mod has impressive gunfights. They changed the behaviour, sounds and animations for every weapon and is now a top tier game regarding this particular aspect. I was actually thinking on my last playthrough how cool it would be if more FPS's had the subtle weapon animations that this mod has. Pulling every weapon from the holster and checking the gun for bullets all have new and smooth animations that just feel good.
And the eerily similar named mod for FEAR, also called MMod - you just have to play that with headphones. The punch and heft of the weapons are without equal.
I have been asking this myself for a long time, and I have come to conclusion that it is not really that I am "losing interest", its just the games are so fucking bad now or uninteresting. I was in heaven while playing WoW classic and TBC classic (AGAIN), got the magical feeling back for a while when games were good, it is also almost crime to do such high end hardware and paying super high prices for nothing, developers can't use the hardware properly, because its "unfair" for console users. Only game that I am currently hyped and waiting for is Diablo IV (please don't fuck it up blizzard), it will be probably my last try to get excited for modern gaming.
well tbh my backlog is so big that i dont have any issues finding good games/games i like especially since i mostly play rpgs/jrpgs (and those are long ass games timewise) plus jrpgs and crpgs still do get some good games out there.
Last edited by lametta on Tue, 9th Aug 2022 17:27; edited 1 time in total
Signature/Avatar nuking: none (can be changed in your profile)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
