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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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Moshi
Posts: 346
Location: Slovenia
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 Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2020 10:16 Post subject: |
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| Morphineus wrote: | | PickupArtist wrote: | | so is the game that much better then ck1-2 or just ui is more pleasing ? cause its still a effin spreadsheet sim ? |
If you didn't like CKII, don't bother. |
I didn't like CK2 but I love CK3. Already have almost 100 hours in it.
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Surray
Posts: 5409
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2020 12:10 Post subject: |
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Already played for 40 hours.. it's so addicting.
Started in 867 as Bjorn Ironside of sweden..
took over parts of norway, england, and west francia
Was tribal and decided to try the switch to feudal and dropped from about 12k levies to 2k with essentially no income
Got my ass handed to me all over the known world, took about 150 years to recover
Now things are finally looking somewhat well but holy shit I swear some bastard keeps assassinating my kids.
I had 3 genius daughters and lost 2 before they were even 20 years old!
If I catch that fucker he's going straight to the dungeons for some torture sessions.
At the highpoint I had 3 kings in my dynasty but 1 got owned (england) and I took over another myself (norway) so it's back down to one for now...
hoping to spread throughoug the world some more.
 Spoiler: | |
holy roman empire recently collapsed and byzantine empire seems to have been split into two (Nikea)
Lots of new vulnerable areas..
So.. loving the game. highly recommended.
I remember enjoying CK2 just as much on release though. Back then that was also considered the most accessible and polished paradox grand strategy game yet if I recall correctly.
Likot Mosuskekim, Woodcutter cancels Sleep: Interrupted by Elephant.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2020 14:41 Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | | Morphineus wrote: | | PickupArtist wrote: | | so is the game that much better then ck1-2 or just ui is more pleasing ? cause its still a effin spreadsheet sim ? |
If you didn't like CKII, don't bother. |
I didn't like CK2 but I love CK3. Already have almost 100 hours in it. |
It's still the same game. You probably disliked the learning curve/ui? |
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2020 19:49 Post subject: |
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I disliked how hard CK2 was to get into, and the dated UI. On the other hand, I loved EU4. I tried CK3 about a week ago and have been playing since that, really enjoying it so far... my only gripe is that so far it seems too easy (I tried playing as a small European tribe and it seems very easy to blob with the free casus belli).
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2020 21:22 Post subject: |
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Yeah, don't get it as me saying you're derp if you don't like the obtuse systems of CKII. I really do get that. It takes some to get over that.
But with VGA it really sounds like he doesn't like these types of games (some would even say: any game  ). I'm sure there are people out there whom disliked CKII for its clunkiness but do like CKIII.
I do find CKIII a better game as well. Especially late CKII became a bit too silly and dated.
It actually bugs me that I can't get into any Europa Universalis game. I like my HoI and CK but with EU I always tried and for some reason it doesn't click with me.
As to the difficulty: Tribal Africa also feels a bit too easy for conquering land. Easy to claim and not much resistance to the army you can put out early on.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2020 09:28 Post subject: |
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zTurbo
Posts: 654
Location: 9th Circle of Hell
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2020 18:33 Post subject: |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2020 20:51 Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's not like there was a way to play all the DLC's with legit base game on steam^^.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2020 22:03 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | Yeah, it's not like there was a way to play all the DLC's with legit base game on steam^^. |
Why pay for legit if you are gonna pirate it anyway.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2020 22:12 Post subject: |
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Why play if you don't think its worth anything? 
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Nodrim
Posts: 9597
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2020 22:54 Post subject: |
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Aren't sequels supposed to be an evolution?
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2020 09:49 Post subject: |
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The dumbest argemunt really is and always was, people complaining that a SEQUEL of a game, by numeration, isn't totally new, but build on its processors...
It makes no sense and it's just stupid.
If I saw Jurassic Park and then I went to see Jurassic Park 2, It better be a movie about dinosaurs and not about 2 people in love in a outhouse in Sweden...
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2020 10:07 Post subject: |
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I think that half killed my interest in mainstream gaming, AssCreed1-25 same game, farcry2-8 same game, total war 1-30 the same game, borderlands1-3 same game, cod1-50 the same game. The mainstream audience are okay paying for the same thing over and over and over, that was rare to see that without new engines or durastic improvements back in the day. I guess thats why im only interested in franchises were we still see massive tech shift between iterations, its rare but best studios still innovating on inhouse engines i guess.
Last edited by AmpegV4 on Tue, 15th Sep 2020 10:11; edited 1 time in total
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mtj
Posts: 2315
Location: Austria / Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2020 10:08 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | The dumbest argemunt really is and always was, people complaining that a SEQUEL of a game, by numeration, isn't totally new, but build on its processors...
It makes no sense and it's just stupid.
If I saw Jurassic Park and then I went to see Jurassic Park 2, It better be a movie about dinosaurs and not about 2 people in love in a outhouse in Sweden... |
What about 2 dinosaurs in love ?!
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2020 11:14 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | | I think that half killed my interest in mainstream gaming, AssCreed1-25 same game, farcry2-8 same game, total war 1-30 the same game, borderlands1-3 same game, cod1-50 the same game. The mainstream audience are okay paying for the same thing over and over and over, that was rare to see that without new engines or durastic improvements back in the day. I guess thats why im only interested in franchises were we still see massive tech shift between iterations, its rare but best studios still innovating on inhouse engines i guess. |
From that perspective, I'd say that the shift between CK2 and CK3 is much, much larger than the shift between individual total war or AssCreed titles.
And about the DLC policy, I don't see an issue there. Everything is available for free, either via creamapi or direct piracy (this used to be a piracy forum afaik) - from that viewpoint, only the quality matters regardless of whether the game is sold for 10 or 1000 euros. Or, maybe to put it in a less pragmatic light, one could judge games in two ways: utility/cost or just utility, and the DLC policy is just an issue if you use the former metric.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2020 15:27 Post subject: |
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| Morphineus wrote: |
It actually bugs me that I can't get into any Europa Universalis game. I like my HoI and CK but with EU I always tried and for some reason it doesn't click with me.
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Same. I think it's the whole Dynasty system that does it for me especially with the games that span centuries.
I don't get much from EU since you're not really playing as a Dynasty but as a State.
Also on the DLC policy I don't really see what's wrong.
It's not like all of the CK2 DLC came out within 3 years of each other and then CK3 came out 4 years after CK2 was released.
Most of those DLCs were more expansions anyway that breathed new life into the game, and even people who didn't purchase any of the expansions still got something out of it from the base game updates.
Complaining about DLC is fine, but for CK2 and the 7 year span (I'm including the Iron Century patch even if the last DLC Holy Fury was released 2018) and all the content added? This ain't it chief.
Gustave the Steel
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shadak
Posts: 1097
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Wed, 16th Sep 2020 00:55 Post subject: |
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Still loving the game, I loved the "idea" of CK2 but never got into it so much to actually get anywhere, mainly due to UI and not really seeing results for a long time.
CK3 makes some things a bit easier while still maintaining complexity.
There were 2 things I wasnt too happy with though so I got a mod for harder alliance and also made my own mod to make Casus Belli more costly for everyone and every time except claims. I found you could cheese the alliance too much and also there were too many wars going on, you can easily conquer now for little prestige/piety which I dont think was easily possible in CK2, you had to have claims or religious reason to make war.
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| Posted: Wed, 16th Sep 2020 14:05 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Also on the DLC policy I don't really see what's wrong.
It's not like all of the CK2 DLC came out within 3 years of each other and then CK3 came out 4 years after CK2 was released.
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The expansions are overprized for the content they deliver, if you bought all ck2 dlc's you have to spend hundreds of dollars.
If paradox would cut the price of DLC (5 euro's is fine cause in the end I think a dlc is a big content patch, not an expansion) and make it possible that you can buy the whole game at any given time for max 75euro's by reducing the prize of the base game and older DLC's over time, then I would be fine with it. Now it's a no go to buy the game legit.
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| Posted: Wed, 16th Sep 2020 19:57 Post subject: |
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Or at least make the bundles a much higher discount (50% at least) so you can get then as they progress. At the moment CK2 DLCs cost almost 300€, which is simply too much. I know some content would probably not warrant a buy (such as e-books and OSTs) but it's still way too much. 15€ for almost every expansion pack is too much.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2020 09:19 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: | | Quote: | Also on the DLC policy I don't really see what's wrong.
It's not like all of the CK2 DLC came out within 3 years of each other and then CK3 came out 4 years after CK2 was released.
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The expansions are overprized for the content they deliver, if you bought all ck2 dlc's you have to spend hundreds of dollars.
If paradox would cut the price of DLC (5 euro's is fine cause in the end I think a dlc is a big content patch, not an expansion) and make it possible that you can buy the whole game at any given time for max 75euro's by reducing the prize of the base game and older DLC's over time, then I would be fine with it. Now it's a no go to buy the game legit. |
$20 I spent on Holy Fury added hundreds of hours of fun to my 3000 hours CK2 play time. Other expansions did the same barring the pointless and utterly shit ones like Sunset Invasion. Jade Dragon is the same as well if you only play in Europe, but it certainly made my Sistan run very interesting.
Gustave the Steel
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2020 14:18 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | Or at least make the bundles a much higher discount (50% at least) so you can get then as they progress. At the moment CK2 DLCs cost almost 300€, which is simply too much. I know some content would probably not warrant a buy (such as e-books and OSTs) but it's still way too much. 15€ for almost every expansion pack is too much. |
To be fair... they do quite a bit of sales and bundles over the year. But yeah I do start rolling my eyes when I see 'buy all DLC' when its over 100€.
I know: 'bad Blizzard' & 'Shit WoW'... but what I like about them and some other MMO's in the past: only the newest expansion you pay for. The previous ones are free. And I do think if some games come with heaps of DLC/Expansions they should at the very least lower the price drastically for the older ones or free (yeah right).
And just so people know: CK III expansions will be more expensive. They will be 30€/$. In their words: they want to put more time into them and features. We'll see if that's going to be the case.
Edit: for CKII I thought some expansions were worth the 15€ but I only bought a few for that price. Others was just discounts or bundles. |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2020 14:27 Post subject: |
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The worlds IQ just dropped another point...
Making comparison between WOW and Paradox' selling schemes...
Let's ignore, that you pay 15$ a month to play WoW
Let's ignore, that every new expansion renders anything else obsolete...
In Paradox games, if you buy the base game and then buy every dlc individually every couple months when they come out, you spend a couple bucks a month in average tops. But each dlc will always be relevant to the game.
Ofc, if you buy the game 3 years after release and want to buy each and every dlc at once, you're out of luck, unless you, I don't know, buy them at a 75% or more sale...
And btw, buying a paradox game with 2+ years worth of dlc's is a bad idea anyway. It's much better to "ease into it" by just playing the base game. Otherwise it's way too overwhelming.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2020 14:48 Post subject: |
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Oh, how surprising. Sin and his shit 2.0 attitude showed up.
I was giving it as an example where a high price of all DLC becomes a problem on entry. Some people in the MMO industry saw this early on and started that discussion. I'm using WoW as an example because well... if I bring up Raph Koster or others most of you will go who?!?.
To be crystal clear: That part is about the total cost when you want to experience it all.
I'm not against Paradox DLC system, I've always treated it as expansions.
I think they have a healthier approach to DLC than most other companies. Seeing how you get the updates for free, the game gets supported for years, that you don't even need to buy an expansion if it doesn't interest you AND the many discounts they throw at you.
And yes, ignore the subscription fee of WoW. Since that has no bearing on the expansion costs. There are/were other MMO's with subs whom happily asked full price for older expansions years after.
But you just wanted to see what you wanted to see, one guy goes on about how its all a rip off ...so everyone else thinks that, right?
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7565
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2020 14:55 Post subject: |
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You didn't have to buy all of the CK2 DLCs, as any changes to core gameplay these added, were included in free updates.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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