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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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 Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 05:41 Post subject: Games are becoming bad - and you're enabling them |
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Should we feel compelled to constantly comment on whether other people like or dislike a thing we like or dislike? Is you liking and buying certain games what's destroying gaming ?
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110105&start=810
Since there is no need for a meta-discussion in games threads, here is a topic about the issue raised in the Anthem thread.
edit: Orthography and minor corrections
couleur
Some comments for context:
I think there is a fine line between "Stop having fun!" and "Stop enabling badly developed games".
One is a personal criticism of "How can you like that?" and one an opinion of "Please dont encourage them to keep making sub par games".
While it true no single snowflake it to blame for the avalanche, I dont think its wrong to point out they are actively part of the avalanche.
So them saying they enjoy a game despite it being bad is one thing. Them defending a bad game as not bad and you saying something is another, as you are point out they are one of those snowflakes rushing down the hill causing the avalanche of bad game after bad game coming out.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 09:55 Post subject: |
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Personally i think we've got an attitude problem. With our audience of 50 people i doubt we can encourage anyone to make subpar games, and threads often devolve into fun policing after a couple pages.
I don't see the relevance between someone saying they enjoy a game despite it being bad or defending it as not bad. It's not bad for them, or they can see past the games fault, either way, it doesn't really matter. I'd rather see people here respecting eachother's preferences instead of trying to convince eachother that they're wrong. Often though, being right is more important than being civil?
Lastly, i'm not saying we should censor criticism, i'm saying we shouldn't come back every day to take another shit in the game's thread. Try to condense your criticism to 1-2 posts and then move on to another game if you don't like it? Just a suggestion and imo, of course.
Clown Fiesta
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 10:50 Post subject: |
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I wasnt trying to say they was 'wrong' for liking it. Was saying taking the opposite extreme when someone says the game is a dud by ignoring any faults and praising it isn't helping anymore than them telling you to stop having fun is.
And I fully admit I've been in that first crowd before, I did it with the last Sim City here on these very forums(until I actually played it a day, and I am filled with shame over the posts I made to that effect..lol). The sunk cost fallacy can skew your honest opinion of it.
And I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular here. Just in general population.
I noticed this the most when my son talked his friends into getting Fallout 76 after he preordered it played it for 2 days at launch. As that game and its state made it a magnifying glass to see the effect in action.
Because of him buying it and enjoying it for 2 days, partially because of denial he bought a broken game, and also the idea "Maybe if I get friends to get it to play with me, it will be awesome'. He was even selectively looking for reviews that said it was an OK game, to feel he wasn't alone in the opinion.
So 5 sales of that horrible game was made, because my son committed to spending $70 on it, and trying to make lemonade of of lemons. Trying to find a reason to justify he didn't make a 'mistake'.
Even asking him if he was experiencing what all the reviews was saying, he would say "A few sure, but I still enjoy Fallout games, sure its different but I can enjoy playing it Its a good game.." Then once all his friends left in 2 weeks, he slooowly started to have acceptance that hes out $70, and the game wasn't what he was lying to himself it was to feel ok with buying it.
And by that point, again him praising it to his friends to start with. Made them 5 more sales from one.
And Im sure this pattern repeats for more than just him, across the whole range of gaming over and over. 2 of my friends tried to pull me into No Mans Sky with "No no its an amazing game, overlook the issues, they are minor quit nitpicking" because they already bought it, and trying to not feel 'wrong' for doing so.
So I think on an actual bad/broken/buggy game you happen to like, there is no shame in going "I can see how people have issues with it, and think its a dud with big flaws..but can look past them and enjoy it". Vs doing what they are doing to you by saying "No YOUR wrong, its an amazing game"..is hypocritical also. Because at that point I feel its more defending you choice, than the game itself.
Which can lead to a misunderstanding on if you are so passionate because of your fear of feeling 'cheated or duped' and overlooking flaws (because no one like admitting a wrong), or because you actually think its really good..and maybe someone buying it assuming its the latter.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 11:15 Post subject: |
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Imo it's not fun policeing.
If a renowned studio like bioware is in the state it is in now ,people who loved the games of old get upset ofc.
Especially if EA a scumy (to say the least) publisher drives them to the ground. I read somewhere that even the devs are scared that if Anthem fails that the studio might be closed.
This builds up a lot of anger and frustration.
Basically the thought process of me at least is:
You wanna kill off the game studio for a copy paste lootshooter?
Is the studio to blame for the mediocre quality? or the publisher that gives them not enough time to fill it with content and a solid framework? or the players who jump from coop game to coop game after a month?
Does the initial spike in players keep companies like EA make those dud games they planned as live services for 5-10 years?
What would happen if games like this wouldnt have any playerbase spikes at the beginning wouldnt just companies stop making them?
Imo accepting mediocrity just harms the video gaming industry and gaming in total.
Play what you want have fun as much as you want with it and dont read forums if you think your fun gets policed but if people are giving backlash they do it because they care/cared about a certain studio. Just compare the outrage between metal gear survive and fallout 76. THe former outrage died off alot quicker.
It's like ppl meeting in a pub and talking bad about their favourite sports team that just fucks up for years and doesnt win any games anymore because of bad decisions.
Last edited by lametta on Mon, 25th Feb 2019 11:17; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 11:17 Post subject: |
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@DX Very reasonable and i agree with you on most points. 
What i'm referring to though is the general population of nfohump, which definitely can't convince anyone any one way or another, so all we got is constant bickering between the people that like the game and people that hate it, it's not a very moderate place, people usually pick one side and don't stop till they draw blood from the other side.
I've VERY rarely seen people change their minds based on criticism from others here. What, VGA is still defending trump 3 years(?) later since that thread started, to give a silly example.
That said, i don't like Anthem either, i defended it before it was launched, but after having played the full game, i dislike it, made a review for people to read if they cared, and stopped shitting on the game. In my opinion it would be nice if others did the same, but then again, i'm not that naive to think i can influence anyone's thoughts on the matter here.
Clown Fiesta
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 11:25 Post subject: |
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I totally agree, and I dont THINK I have ever done that in any game thread: Not shut up how much I want to piss all over your picnic because I cannot stand that someone enjoys it. If I have, I'm totally at fault there.
Being bit too many times myself, usually I wont buy a game until its out a few weeks, and I can get my friends opinions on it after the 'New Game Smell" wears off...usually.
A few I buy day one like Cities Skylines, Roller Coaster Tycoon, and a few others because I'm willing to gamble on it, and OK with admitting I lost that gamble if I must because it was a game I wanted to experience for myself good or bad and at least say those are game genres I love, and tried it for myself.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 14:43 Post subject: |
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What's shitting on a game? Linking to reviews, pictures, etc that make fun of the game? Because I'm not going to stop doing that on anthem, fo76, etc
Don't even have anything against those who play it and enjoy it, but if they pretend that the obvious bugs and flaws that are shown in what was posted then I'll address that too.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 15:08 Post subject: |
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stopping people from preordering is a great start in the right direction and i will bash anyone who preorders , all gamers will benefit in the end, including the muppets preordering
I was lucky to have a pentium and voodoo 2 in the golden decade of gaming ( 1997-2007 )
new videocards coming out every 3-6 months, birth of mods, , unreal and halflife coming out the same month , holy crap i was spoiled, and then the dlc shit and mmorpgs started to happen combined with modern consoles that ran basic pc games and it all went to shit as they started porting these shitty games to pc for easy money , preordering more easy money, easy money = lazy devs = shit games
Last edited by PickupArtist on Mon, 25th Feb 2019 15:14; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 15:13 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 15:21 Post subject: |
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Eh, personally i still think we're living in a golden age of gaming, and i'm still having as much fun gaming now as i did when i was a kid with the difference that i can now afford to get all the latest gear to enjoy everything on max details ^^ Sure there's duds, but luckily i don't get to suffer often from buyers remorse.
Clown Fiesta
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 15:36 Post subject: |
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Why bother with a topic such as this? No one with opposite opinions will agree on anything anyway.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 16:50 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:24; edited 2 times in total
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couleur
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HIz
Posts: 2187
Location: Wrong_Timeline
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 16:56 Post subject: |
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People have different mindsets.
1.People who are older and played a LOT of games along their years will not enjoy every dog shit game that comes out every year with copy pasta, no originality, no optimization -10+ patches - ezpz dev just put them in game - grabs cash - see ya next year . 
2.People who are young / really young or those (even older ) who play a game every few months till completion will enjoy ( or like even if they don't play it ) every dog shit game that comes out because they don't know better, they haven't gotten that older gamer experience level. 
3.Sheep people, they are in total chaos , they follow what it's trending and what seems justice 
So there's no win. Unless it is teach in schools at a young age the arguments will go from generation to generation. 
TLDR: If someone doesn't like the game you're liking it's probably a bad game 
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. 
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Feb 2019 21:30 Post subject: |
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I finished the original Resident Evil on my PS Classic and now playing through RE2 on it.
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 00:01 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:20; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 00:32 Post subject: |
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I usually don't "reward" publishers or developers for being lazy with the exception of Fallout 76 because to me, it seemed like I'd get my money's worth (and I did since I only paid €16 or so for it).
Having said that, for the past two years, it's not that hard to see a theme. The "gaming is dead" topic has been popping up for many MANY years but I can't escape the feeling we're really hitting a rough patch now. The decline of complexity and risk in games has been obvious for a decade at the very least but the utter laziness and the shying away from single player games by larger developers cannot be ignored.
I can play Thief from 1998 and it feels ... fleshy. It has dated graphics but there's meat on its bones. It doesn't have half the HUD telling you what to do and where to go and that's part of what makes modern games so "thin" - too much hand holding. And the argument "some games let you disable it" is nonsense since games are designed around many of these crutches. Games that highlight objects, don't have to make sure those objects are easily spotted without the highlight for example.
Indie games have also flooded the market to such a level that we're reaching Atari 2600 levels. Remember what caused the video game crash in the US in the 80's? Tons upon tons of unregulated games appearing everywhere, a lot of it poor or even terrible quality. That's what Steam has become. The ONLY way to find any good game, is from hearing others are playing it, Twitch, seeing it in the "best selling" list - which all sucks if you're a dev who makes great games but can't reach people to get the ball rolling.
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Morphineus
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 00:49 Post subject: |
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Bit overblown situation here and I fully agree with Interinactive's post.
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
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couleur
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 09:47 Post subject: |
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Oh...well. Carry on then! Don't let me get in your way.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 18:22 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:24; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Feb 2019 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | Opinions about games aren't the issue, the issue always stems from people who can't bear to hear things they disagree with, even when those things are demonstrably true. If a game is doing very well for itself, like Resident Evil 2, then people will comment favourably. If it isn't, like Fallout 76, then they will shit on it.
But why should it be limited to two posts if these shitty games keep giving us things to shit on it about?
Look at all the divisiveness in the Fallout 4 thread. The world didn't end when people picked it apart. That's because those who enjoyed the game weren't delusional when it came to the game's issues.
If you want another reddit/neogaf/resetera, stick to an arbitrary 2 post rule. It's like the WAB guy - he only wants to hear what'll boost his ego. If you want to live in a bubble, visit a dedicated subreddit to a game, or something, you'll find unending praise. |
I agree with this. Forums should be the place for clashing opinions as long as it remains within the forum's rules, not some comforting circlejerk where only one opinion will always take the cake like most "modern" social networks. If you don't like this freedom, then begone and find a safer haven.
However, the Hump can sometimes make the mistake of being a bit disingenuous and pick on.. easy targets that don't really fully deserve all the shit that's thrown a bit too constantly at them regardless of their actual discourse, should I say  When it doesn't add much to a conversation or starts repeating a thing that's been said in multiple posts already, there's probably no need to hit that reply button. Regardless, that's what makes the whole charm of the place, isn't it 
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