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 Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 13:46 Post subject: The hardest (relatively) modern game you played |
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I would count only games from years 2000+, when mainstream adoption of gaming caused the influx of "casuals", and led to the modern trend of pampering and empowering the increasingly lame gamer. Assassin's Creed is a prime example of this - the main character auto-climbs, auto-fights, while you watch the show and feel like a king.
I exclude games like The Gods Will Be Watching, that are artificially "hard" because they are unfair - they require an immense luck to progress, and all you have to do is roll the dice many, many times.
I also exclude games like Demon Souls or Dark Souls that mainly require grinding - you build stats and weapons and roll over anything, and that require a lot of meta-information about obscure secrets and hidden formula that allow you to skip the grind and "pwn". Fuck that.
I am talking about games requiring skill - reflexes, planning, tactical flexibility, quick decision-making.
And let me start with a game I found recently - Ninja Gaiden Sigma. I know it's old. I know it's a console game, but damn, this game is hard. If you don't know what you are doing, you are dead in seconds. That said, the techniques you can use are well defined, pure and clean cuts, slahes and jumps, no flashy, screen obscuring magic and that bullshit, but when you watch somebody good, it's a pure poetry in motion.
So what's your experience with genuinely demanding, skill-based and honest games?
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 13:48 Post subject: |
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Dark souls don't require grinding. Leveling in that game means almost nothing.
anyway, I remember dmc3 being very hard
3080 | ps5 pro
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deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:01 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:28; edited 1 time in total
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Neon
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Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:05 Post subject: |
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Super Meat Boy! A damn fantastic title at that.
I finished it 100% with a keyboard, some people think I'm mad, but...
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:12 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | I finished it 100% with a keyboard, some people think I'm mad, but... |
I played the game with a keyboard as well. I play all games using K&M.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:16 Post subject: |
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Nothing, something skill based can be initially hard.. but then comes practice and it's not hard anymore. Usually hard is because: unbalanced, unfair and/or luck based mechanics.
So since you took that out of the equation: nothing. 
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:18 Post subject: |
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Dark Souls is not grinding. It requires skill and patience. Else it would be impossible for some enthusiasts to finish the game with soul level 1. Dark Souls is very fair at being very hard. Don't worry, you'll improve over time but might feel sore down there after a while 
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:33 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 21:55; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:33 Post subject: |
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Dear ester was really hard...
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7560
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:38 Post subject: |
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Nothing comes to mind, but I'm not playing a lot of puzzle games anymore (only type of games where you can't 'train' your skills in, like Morphineus says).
I was going to say Commandos, but apparantly that's from 1998 already. I'm not interested in playing the clones that came after either.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:39 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 14:44 Post subject: |
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| paxsali wrote: | | Geometry Dash lite fucks Dark Souls up it's dark butt. |
Ahaha, I am on 94% on the last level of Geometry Dash Lite... I am just too stupid to concentrate properly :/
@Zeel:
Shinobi was already hard on the Amiga...  |
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HIz
Posts: 2187
Location: Wrong_Timeline
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 15:00 Post subject: |
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flappy bird and heroes 6 
oh....and that game where you die a lot..... dark souls i think is called 
games are easy these days, maybe survivals are the hardest....evil within died like 100 times,M&M X legacy also was hard,but can't remember if i did something wrong( going places where i shouldn't have, to low level on char. )as didn't finisih it, maybe in the future
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. 
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 15:16 Post subject: |
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| Morphineus wrote: | Nothing, something skill based can be initially hard.. but then comes practice and it's not hard anymore. Usually hard is because: unbalanced, unfair and/or luck based mechanics.
So since you took that out of the equation: nothing. |
I disagree, and can provide at least one counter-example. chess.
Chess is not unbalanced (both sides have exactly the same assets), it's not unfair, because nothing is hidden from the players and luck has no effect on the game - no dice throws, probabilities, etc.
Moreover, as you move up in strength, it's harder and harder to advance, since the knowledge and skill required increases. A beginner can rise above his peers with knowing only relatively simple tactics, but a master must know strategic principles, endgame, opening theory, must be able to devise plans suitable for various pawn structures, must understand the dynamic balance between material, time and space, etc.
Plus, computer AI does not suck, today's computer programs are guaranteed to beat even the strongest player on the planet without cheating.
So chess is hard without being luck-based, unfair or unbalanced.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 15:26 Post subject: |
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Then I do not understand why you discard Dark Souls. It is exactly like what you described. Every time I died in Dark Souls, I knew it was my fault (at the beginning there was some blaming of the game of course, because it was too hard that time to cope with my inability to properly play, have patience and correct timing)
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Morphineus
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 15:29 Post subject: |
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| KamamuraCZ wrote: | | Morphineus wrote: | Nothing, something skill based can be initially hard.. but then comes practice and it's not hard anymore. Usually hard is because: unbalanced, unfair and/or luck based mechanics.
So since you took that out of the equation: nothing. |
I disagree, and can provide at least one counter-example. chess.
Chess is not unbalanced (both sides have exactly the same assets), it's not unfair, because nothing is hidden from the players and luck has no effect on the game - no dice throws, probabilities, etc.
Moreover, as you move up in strength, it's harder and harder to advance, since the knowledge and skill required increases. A beginner can rise above his peers with knowing only relatively simple tactics, but a master must know strategic principles, endgame, opening theory, must be able to devise plans suitable for various pawn structures, must understand the dynamic balance between material, time and space, etc.
Plus, computer AI does not suck, today's computer programs are guaranteed to beat even the strongest player on the planet without cheating.
So chess is hard without being luck-based, unfair or unbalanced. |
You can disagree as much as you want, I haven't played chess in or after 2000 neither digital or on a board.  |
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 16:55 Post subject: |
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Assassins creed black flag
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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Vechter
Posts: 1029
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:07 Post subject: |
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| human_steel wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | I finished it 100% with a keyboard, some people think I'm mad, but... |
I played the game with a keyboard as well. I play all games using K&M. |
Likewise, only play games with K&M.
Super Meat Boy was pretty tough, haven't beaten it yet cause I just got bored.
Also very frustrating at times.
I play all games on the hardest difficulty but most games nowadays are just unfair instead of just hard, take Mars: War Logs for example; on the hardest difficulty it was just frustrating, there wasn't really any skill involved, just dodge, attack, dodge, attack, repeat this for 50x times and you'll kill 1 enemy out of 3-4. Could say the same about Dark Souls to be honest, I just can't get into these kind of games, which are perceived as hard, but in the end are just dull. I'm prepared for all the hate.
Last edited by Vechter on Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:11; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:10 Post subject: |
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It's Monica, not Ma Nigga.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:14 Post subject: |
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| Vechter wrote: | | human_steel wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | I finished it 100% with a keyboard, some people think I'm mad, but... |
I played the game with a keyboard as well. I play all games using K&M. |
Likewise, only play games with K&M.
Super Meat Boy was pretty tough, haven't beaten it yet cause I just got bored.
Also very frustrating at times.
I play all games on the hardest difficulty but most games nowadays are just unfair instead of just hard, take Mars: War Logs for example; on the hardest difficulty it was just frustrating, there wasn't really any skill involved, just dodge, attack, dodge, attack, repeat this for 50x times and you'll kill 1 enemy out of 3-4. Could say the same about Dark Souls to be honest, I just can't get into these kind of games, which are perceived as hard, but in the end are just dull. I'm prepared for all the hate. |
git gud n00b
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:21 Post subject: |
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super meat boy, dmc3, wipeout on phantom speed
demons/dark souls doens't count since you can grind and cheese your way through (bosses in the ds2 dlcs are another thing though)
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 17:22 Post subject: |
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Dark Souls for me
thanks
Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 18:04 Post subject: |
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One example that could fit your description (based on reflexes/decision-making combo) is Volgarr the Viking. Doesn't matter the amount of patience that you're willing to put into that, the game will likely make you rage anyway. 
Then there are all the recent-ish roguelike-like and metroidvania-like games that usually get progressively harder with each passing stage and can be pretty tough if you want to 100% them (Rogue Legacy, Spelunky, La Mulana etc), although they're very satisfying also.
As for AAAwesome button games released in the last decade..the list is indeed quite empty
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 18:10 Post subject: |
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Binding of isaac, yes it has a lot of rng and you can become god-like and faceroll everything, but more often than not you get avarage or shitty items. And if you have enough skill you can finish allmost every run, despite the pickups you get. There are very few bullshit enemies or unavoidable dmg in the new rebirth game, but i'm sure that will get fixed, since that game has so much random generation in it that sometimes you just can get bullshit room.
For me it is very satisfying game, especially when you beat your run with bad items.
It took me like 20h+ to get to decent level when i started playing, the womb+ levels are very hard for newcomers.
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dsergei
Posts: 4055
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 18:16 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | Super Meat Boy! A damn fantastic title at that.
I finished it 100% with a keyboard, some people think I'm mad, but... |
not 106?
On-topic. Boshy
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 19:07 Post subject: |
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I find Call of Duty hard on the highest difficulty level.
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| Posted: Thu, 4th Dec 2014 19:23 Post subject: |
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i find assassins creed games hard if i play them upside down while having a badger bite my balls.
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