Just back from the movie. It was stunning. Everything was and man what a score.
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Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
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This is a usual plot problem with single linear time timetravel stories
Terminator 1 is also the same paradox (john sends a man back in time to become his father)
It requires a deterministic universe with no free will.
I think the "them" being future humans is a dumb solution and I prefer to interpret that they are some other beings just teaching humans.
We thought about something else with some friends after the film;
There is a very distinct difference with the two sides of the worm hole.
On our side everything seems to work to very hard-science-fiction realism.
You need huge rocket boosters to leave orbit.
It takes two years to reach Saturn.
On the other side, you can take off to orbit from a 1.6G planet with just the shuttle, it takes a few minutes to go from a planet to the black hole and all physics seem to be all fucked up.
There were very few wide shots of the ship moving in interplanetary space there, destroying all sense of spatial dimension.
Also emotional reality seems to trump physical law.
And how the hell did he suddenly appear from the black hole in Saturn orbit at our side?
I'm guessing it's not a wormhole to another galaxy or any physical location at all, but to a custom created sub-universe designed to teach the gravity theory to mankind.
That would explain away a lot of issues that are just shitty science otherwise
The whole universe would exist as a singularity in Saturn's orbit.
I don't know what meaning this theory would give to the other planet visits.
But I think it's a better explanation than accepting that they just gave up on the realistic scifi aspect after the wormhole.
I loved the movie as well but there's something that's bothering me here...
Don't click unless you've see the movie:
Spoiler:
First of all, I paid attention a lot when watching the movie but I could absolutely have missed something absolutely vital so please tell me if so, this is bugging me too much but doesn't this movie have a big paradox with "They" existing?
So okey, in the movie we have the following:
* Murph
* Cooper
* They (being the fifth dimension beings)
* Wormhole
* The "library" in the end.
The wormhole was created by the fifth dimension beings so that Cooper would be able to go through and eventually enter the black hole so that he could communicate the remaining gravity related formula to Murph and of course relay the coordinates to himself in the past. Why? Because the fifth dimension beings can't communicate the same way we can... Alright then. This of course makes sure that Murph solves the remaining gravity issue, which then lets Murph and the remainder of humanity finish and move to a space station capable of sustaining life, thus saving humanity.
The movie leads us to believe (especially with TARS practically spelling it out towards the end) that these beings are evolved/transcendent future humans. If this is true (which we're being lead to believe it is) then their origin is either that of Murphs saved humanity or Blakes colony. This feels like a paradox to me... If the fifth dimension beings created the wormhole, and they themselves originated after the wormhole was created (as a result of humanity being saved or Blakes colony) then surely they could not have created the wormhole in the first place as they would have invented their own existence?
There are only three ways I can solve this paradox in my mind and they're all very cheap:
A: They're not evolved humans, they're a super advanced Alien species that for some unexplained reason decided to help humanity.
This feels very cheap and while it's very possible that TARS was simply wrong, I think it doesn't really fit at all with the movie. Why even bother making TARS say what "he" said if it's not the case? This can't be the case.
or
B: The universe in the movie is just one out of an unlimited amount of other universe (multi-world theory), which means that in one out of those unlimited amounts of universes, Humanity somehow survived without the wormhole and then evolved to become "They". And since they're fifth dimensional beings they can travel between universes and dimensions.
This also feels very cheap and there is no mention whatsoever of anything like this in the movie so this can't be the case either.
or
C: They originated before the wormhole and thus could create the wormhole.
This fixes the paradox of the wormhole being created but it doesn't explain where these evolved humans came from or how or anything really, it makes the least amount of sense out of all of this. It just brings with it more questions and possibly other paradoxes...
TLDR:
"They" are future evolved humans (originating sometime after the wormhole was created).
"They" created the wormhole.
Thus "They" could not have created the wormhole since their very existence is dependent on the wormhole being created... By themselves, this is a paradox. They could not have created the wormhole from the very start since they did not exist yet.
Anyone? Please, I really want this paradox solved as it's bugging me. I loved the movie but so long as I can't figure this out it irks me a lot. I must have missed something important in the movie since I feel this is such a hugely obvious paradox, and Nolan couldn't possibly have missed this... Especially not with the scientific help he had on the movie production side.
Its not a 10/10 for me, in its genre maybe. Will look forward to seeing it again tho.
But oh man the visuals and audio was nothing short of 10/10. Nolan paid out of his own pocket for a handfull of cinemas in europe to show it in 70mm and they had surely cranked the audio up high, the cinema was shaking in some of those scenes. Greatness.
There are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
I loved the movie as well but there's something that's bothering me here...
Don't click unless you've see the movie:
Spoiler:
There are only three ways I can solve this paradox in my mind and they're all very cheap:
A: They're not evolved humans, they're a super advanced Alien species that for some unexplained reason decided to help humanity.
This feels very cheap and while it's very possible that TARS was simply wrong, I think it doesn't really fit at all with the movie. Why even bother making TARS say what "he" said if it's not the case? This can't be the case.
or
B: The universe in the movie is just one out of an unlimited amount of other universe (multi-world theory), which means that in one out of those unlimited amounts of universes, Humanity somehow survived without the wormhole and then evolved to become "They". And since they're fifth dimensional beings they can travel between universes and dimensions.
This also feels very cheap and there is no mention whatsoever of anything like this in the movie so this can't be the case either.
or
C: They originated before the wormhole and thus could create the wormhole.
This fixes the paradox of the wormhole being created but it doesn't explain where these evolved humans came from or how or anything really, it makes the least amount of sense out of all of this. It just brings with it more questions and possibly other paradoxes...
TLDR:
"They" are future evolved humans (originating sometime after the wormhole was created).
"They" created the wormhole.
Thus "They" could not have created the wormhole since their very existence is dependent on the wormhole being created... By themselves, this is a paradox. They could not have created the wormhole from the very start since they did not exist yet.
I think
Spoiler:
it's either B or C. Multiple universes can also refer to different laws of (quantum)physics.
They can be future humans from parallel universe who wanted to save us for example.
I'm not sure but there should be a term for the situation in the movie (Cooper doing things he thought 5D humans were doing). Maybe it is that bootstrap paradox.
EDIT.
The soundtrack is also smashing (good old Zimmer). It's not out yet, but YT has a lot of them already.
If I remember correctly, in the 5th dimmension you are still in our universe, with our laws of physics. Only in the 7th or 8th dimension can the laws of physics change.
( )
Still have to see the movie. It looks like something I'm thouroughly gonna enjoy
I am going to the cinema second time today. Want to take my father to see the movie
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
I went to see it in IMAX, it was pretty good. The first hour and half (I didn't look at my watch) was excellent. The premise was great, the atmophere was great, the acting was superb, there was mystery. It all came together in perfect harmony, giving me the "this is going to be one of the best movies I'll ever watch" vibe. Easily worth a 9.5.
After that however, it turned into an above average Hollywood flick with some cliche light philosophical dialogue, extremely predictable turn of events (which slaps you in the face with a huge "THIS IS STILL A HOLLYWOOD MOVIE HAHA") and to top it off a feel good mellow ending.
Excellent first half or so, above average rest.
8/10
PS. I again didin't experience the visual awesomeness of IMAX (my third IMAX movie), but the excellent sound added immensely to the feeling. Maybe the cinema I usually go to has a shitty sound system, wich would mean I'm easily impressed in the sound.
I went to see it in IMAX, it was pretty good. The first hour and half (I didn't look at my watch) was excellent. The premise was great, the atmophere was great, the acting was superb, there was mystery. It all came together in perfect harmony, giving me the "this is going to be one of the best movies I'll ever watch" vibe. Easily worth a 9.5.
After that however, it turned into an above average Hollywood flick with some cliche light philosophical dialogue, extremely predictable turn of events (which slaps you in the face with a huge "THIS IS STILL A HOLLYWOOD MOVIE HAHA") and to top it off a feel good mellow ending.
Excellent first half or so, above average rest.
8/10
PS. I again didin't experience the visual awesomeness of IMAX (my third IMAX movie), but the excellent sound added immensely to the feeling. Maybe the cinema I usually go to has a shitty sound system, wich would mean I'm easily impressed in the sound.
+1
It was the same exact thing with Fury. It's like they don't want to make a perfect movie in fear they won't be able to top it
i've got some question you can answer:
Spoiler:
1. Why did cooper disconnect into the black hole ?
2. Why did Michael Caine "waste" 23 years of Murph`s life if he knew that he already had the answer ? He didn't have to lie anymore - the crew was in space.
3. What was it that they were looking for, for plan A ? A way to launch a ship with so many people on board ? Why couldn't they just ship them in groups to the mother ship ?
4. How is it possible to build such a large ship - with museums and baseball fields just under 100 years ? And why bother if it was just meant to transport them to the habitable planet (2 years to saturn and through the wormhole).
1. Why did cooper disconnect into the black hole ?
2. Why did Michael Caine "waste" 23 years of Murph`s life if he knew that he already had the answer ? He didn't have to lie anymore - the crew was in space.
3. What was it that they were looking for, for plan A ? A way to launch a ship with so many people on board ? Why couldn't they just ship them in groups to the mother ship ?
4. How is it possible to build such a large ship - with museums and baseball fields just under 100 years ? And why bother if it was just meant to transport them to the habitable planet (2 years to saturn and through the wormhole).
Spoiler:
1. He needed to for the manouvre to work. He lied to Brand that only one ship had to be dislodged manually (the one with TARS), but apparently both needed to be done manually. So he did it for Brand.
2. Professor Brand was just keeping the people busy, nothing more. Why such an elaborate ruse was needed, no idea. Such a supposedy brilliant man wasting a shitload of resources on that seems a bit moronic.
3. Plan A was never meant to work. They wanted to save most of the people in the area (what about the rest of the world? Isn't that humanity?), so a huge ship was necessary. They can't build dozens of small ships with conventional propulsion.
4. No idea, that whole thing was idotic.
In conclusion, stop thinking about the script after you watch the movie It's pretty idiotic once you start thinking about it.
1. Why did cooper disconnect into the black hole ?
2. Why did Michael Caine "waste" 23 years of Murph`s life if he knew that he already had the answer ? He didn't have to lie anymore - the crew was in space.
3. What was it that they were looking for, for plan A ? A way to launch a ship with so many people on board ? Why couldn't they just ship them in groups to the mother ship ?
4. How is it possible to build such a large ship - with museums and baseball fields just under 100 years ? And why bother if it was just meant to transport them to the habitable planet (2 years to saturn and through the wormhole).
Spoiler:
1. He needed to for the manouvre to work. He lied to Brand that only one ship had to be dislodged manually (the one with TARS), but apparently both needed to be done manually. So he did it for Brand.
2. Professor Brand was just keeping the people busy, nothing more. Why such an elaborate ruse was needed, no idea. Such a supposedy brilliant man wasting a shitload of resources on that seems a bit moronic.
3. Plan A was never meant to work. They wanted to save most of the people in the area (what about the rest of the world? Isn't that humanity?), so a huge ship was necessary. They can't build dozens of small ships with conventional propulsion.
4. No idea, that whole thing was idotic.
In conclusion, stop thinking about the script after you watch the movie It's pretty idiotic once you start thinking about it.
1. Why did cooper disconnect into the black hole ?
2. Why did Michael Caine "waste" 23 years of Murph`s life if he knew that he already had the answer ? He didn't have to lie anymore - the crew was in space.
3. What was it that they were looking for, for plan A ? A way to launch a ship with so many people on board ? Why couldn't they just ship them in groups to the mother ship ?
4. How is it possible to build such a large ship - with museums and baseball fields just under 100 years ? And why bother if it was just meant to transport them to the habitable planet (2 years to saturn and through the wormhole).
My 2 cents:
2. He wanted to avoid the panic. You just can't tell someone - "nope, you can't do anything to save the people." At least not in movies like this
4. I understood that the huge thing was not a space "ship" as they said it was a STATION. As for the building part - they cracked the gravity related problems so they could have built whatever they wanted
Anyone know when the OST will be released ? I thought it would come out as soon as the movie hit the theatre´s but i could not find any release so far.
Anyone know when the OST will be released ? I thought it would come out as soon as the movie hit the theatre´s but i could not find any release so far.
- Music and Drama during the Endurance disaster after Dr. Mann failed to link his ship then Cooper trying to hook it up -- Brilliant!
- Depiction of Gargantus (the Black Hole) where Miller's World orbited was unreal.
- Too much more to say about the whole experience!
Some oddities I need to understand..
Spoiler:
#1 - On Miller's world the gravity was x1.64+ that of Earth's and yet their ship was able to escape it WHILE they needed 2+ rockets to escape Earth's gravity.
#2 - Why after they came out of the Worm Hole for the first time did they have to go to Miller's World? Just to see if Dr. Miller was still alive or if the planet was indeed habitable? Not sure how any place orbiting a Black Hole or where 1hr=7years there would be remotely suitable worth visiting let alone having humanity live there.
#3 - Nolan mentioned that at the very end the Worm Hole was gone now. Is that true? If so.. why did Copper think he could REMOTELY reach Brand. Even at the speed of light it would take many millions of years to get to her let alone trying to reach the center of our galaxy. Why was he racing into the ship to leave? Sequel planned? There as no need for Cooper to go after her regardless how soo impossible that is without the Worm Hole as Murph 'solved', quantum gravity - there's no need to find that planet anymore necessarily, gravity now permits them to build mass farms in outer space.
#4 - Worm Hole near Saturn? Not near Mars or slightly closer? Someone mentioned it made sense so humanity would have the needed tech to get there as proof they could manage it whereas if it were closer thus easier humanity may not have been as prepared to handle it. Still.. Saturn, like Jupiter, is massive so the gravity well could have distorted/warped the Worm Hole whereas Mars, while still hard to get to does not have gravity issues compared to a massive Gas Giant.
I have more questions but dear lord I can't ask them all.
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I must have missed something important in the movie since I feel this is such a hugely obvious paradox, and Nolan couldn't possibly have missed this... Especially not with the scientific help he had on the movie production side.
