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tonizito
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 Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 12:29 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | The "best" sentence in the whole article:
| Quote: | | I know that our female readers - by virtue of being women - do not need me to point out that the average male is sexist. |
Prejudice and sexism against both sexes in one sentence? Do we have a winner? |
WRONG, KURWA! 
This one was the best:
| Quote: | | Another example of my ignorant casual sexism: over the last decade, I have assembled a crack team almost entirely made up of young white men. They are all excellent professionals and I am very loyal to them, but they will understand the point I'm making. |
"Dear god, they are all white! 
Good at their job and hired on their skill but they're all white and men... what have I done?  "
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 12:29 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | The "best" sentence in the whole article:
| Quote: | | I know that our female readers - by virtue of being women - do not need me to point out that the average male is sexist. |
Prejudice and sexism against both sexes in one sentence? Do we have a winner? |
WRONG, KURWA!
The best was this one:
| Quote: | | Another example of my ignorant casual sexism: over the last decade, I have assembled a crack team almost entirely made up of young white men. They are all excellent professionals and I am very loyal to them, but they will understand the point I'm making. |
"Dear god, they are all white!
Good at their job and hired on their skill but they're all white and men... what have I done? "
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 13:09 Post subject: |
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RPS included the Eurogamer article in their Sunday Papers roundup. The site being what it is, naturally most of the comments were about the Eurogamer article. One commenter offered surprising insight, likening these nouveau SJWs to born-again Christians. I found the comparison extremely apt.
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Neon
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 13:47 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | What if, instead of the games industry, they fought against sexism in the workplace? |
Fighting for equality in the workplace is fine. Hiring should be based on merit, and in most Western countries there are anti-discrimination laws to that effect. Similarly, there are laws concerning sexual harassment.
That's not what this is about though. Desiring more equal representation for minority groups in games is perfectly acceptable and I have no issue with it. Demanding it, which is what the classic SJW does, is fucking retarded. As I have said before, these are commercial products. Producers of games are perfectly within their rights to cater to any market they want. There is nothing that says they must produce games that show people of all races, sexes, and creeds holding hands under a rainbow.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 13:54 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | SJWs are not criticized for fighting sexism, they're criticized for being borderline retarded (oops, that's ableist, sorry!), seeing issues where there are none.
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#NotAllSJWs 
But more seriously, there are issues of sexism in gaming, it's just perhaps not as strong as some claim. Using extreme arguments (there's no sexism/the industry is entirely sexist) isn't going to help either side.
That first tweet can be read as a rephrasing of "Oh look it's the token [insert minority here]," in sitcoms or drama. Saying there's a lot of white dudes is another way of saying there's very few anything-else. I do agree it's a pretty piss-poor way of presenting an argument, though, no doubt.
The second quote is an example of what I say above about using extreme examples. The rates of sexual violence against women are staggering (something like 1 in 3 or 4 in the US, I believe), and that tweet uses an extreme example to illustrate. Again, though, it is a pretty piss-poor/inflammatory way of putting forward an argument.
(Side-note: Twitter is not going to give either argument any profound meaning - the 140 character limit works against reasoned discourse, and the speed at which conversations happen mean multiple-tweet arguments are just... almost useless).
| DCB wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: | | What if, instead of the games industry, they fought against sexism in the workplace? |
Demanding it, which is what the classic SJW does, is fucking retarded. As I have said before, these are commercial products. Producers of games are perfectly within their rights to cater to any market they want. There is nothing that says they must produce games that show people of all races, sexes, and creeds holding hands under a rainbow. |
No, that's fair enough. I totally don't agree with you, but I'm not gonna start an argument based on this. (Also, your argument is shared pretty widely within the industry, if the gi.biz commenters are representative, for better or worse.)
Pixieking
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 14:24 Post subject: |
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We don't have to have an argument, but there is no reason we can't have a discussion surely. It is a forum after all.
So you believe the games industry should be forced, be it by government or some regulatory body, to make games inclusive of minorities, in a manner similar to anti-discrimination laws in the workplace (and other areas)?
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 14:56 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | We don't have to have an argument, but there is no reason we can't have a discussion surely. It is a forum after all. |
Yeah, but it's a very... passionate subject. 
| Quote: |
So you believe the games industry should be forced, be it by government or some regulatory body, to make games inclusive of minorities, in a manner similar to anti-discrimination laws in the workplace (and other areas)? |
The default for games characters is - generally speaking - men. And I think that default is bad. Some way of forcing developers to properly consider gender of player and non-player-characters is something that I believe would benefit everyone - women, other races, and other sexualities. It woud not only create a fairer representation for current minorities - and representation does play a factor in enjoyment - but it would also force better writing and character development. Women are often lazily represented, and whilst men are just as lazily represented in places, it's more obvious with women, because of what's used - strip-clubs. Brothels. Prostitutes.
Forcing this is not something I want, but rather something that I think is needed, if the industry is to broaden its demographic horizons, and to mature in development. We all point and laugh at how BioWare wrote LGBT scenes in DA and ME, but consider that's one of the first - if not the first - mainstream games to feature those scenes. Consider what could be done by decent writers, if devs and pubs are forced to take notice of a demographic that isn't just dudebros and geeky white men.
Forcing the issue brings it more attention, and this can only be good in the long-run. People can criticise SJWs all they want, but they're forcing the issue to be talked about, and I think that's good.
Edit: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-11-assassins-creeds-female-problems-devs-respond#comment-88647
| Quote: | Saints Row and GTA were really, really similar, except for the humour and the ability to play a female character. The humour of Saints Row wasn't really my kind of thing, so why did I fall in love with the game the way I never did with GTA?
Because I was in it.
Honestly "adding" female characters shouldn't even be a thing. It's as much "adding" as putting in male characters. We're half the world, we're half the audience. It should be obvious by this point that when choosing an avatar to represent themselves, some of your players are going to want an avatar that represents them. |
Also, a point about the "male as default" I talk about above:
Mike Bithell's new game has a male character. Now, he's a great dev, but he openly admitted that he never considered the possibility of a woman being the main character. After later consideration, he didn't think it would work, and he's going to keep the man as the main character, but the interesting thing is that he never considered a woman. He's a male dev, and he just went with the default - a male.
Pixieking
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 15:43 Post subject: |
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What you are asking for is industry regulation to a degree that I would think would be unprecedented in modern Western history. Presumably you'd also have to equally apply it to all other creative industries, notably film and television. You honestly think that is acceptable?
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tonizito
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 15:54 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | Also, a point about the "male as default" I talk about above:
Mike Bithell's new game has a male character. Now, he's a great dev, but he openly admitted that he never considered the possibility of a woman being the main character. After later consideration, he didn't think it would work, and he's going to keep the man as the main character, but the interesting thing is that he never considered a woman. He's a male dev, and he just went with the default - a male. |
...so?
Being a man it will be easier for me to write my game protagonist as a man.
I know (mostly) how a man acts, reacts, thinks, etc so it seems like a pretty logical, cost and time saving decision.
What's the alternative, writing a female protagonist that acts like a man? Oh the shitstorm...
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 15:57 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 16:09 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | What you are asking for is industry regulation to a degree that I would think would be unprecedented in modern Western history. Presumably you'd also have to equally apply it to all other creative industries, notably film and television. You honestly think that is acceptable? |
We're approaching this from two different angles. You're talking about regulation. I'm talking about awareness. For large publishers, it would be easy enough to hire a small vetting team to just ask pertinent questions about the story and characters: "Did you consider a woman here? Is this strip-club necessary? Why is this character white, rather than chinese or hispanic?" If the developer can honestly convince someone outside of the process that there's valid reasons for their decisions, then it's all good. If not, then why not?
Consider this: GMs in role playing games - good GMs, anyways - consider character motivations, backstory and placement. Use a dwarf here, a Green Dragon there. All I'm asking is for games devs to use the same consideration.
| tonizito wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: | Also, a point about the "male as default" I talk about above:
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...so?
Being a man it will be easier for me to write my game protagonist as a man.
I know (mostly) how a man acts, reacts, thinks, etc so it seems like a pretty logical, cost and time saving decision.
What's the alternative, writing a female protagonist that acts like a man? Oh the shitstorm... |
Look at how many books there are on Amazon. Male writers writing female characters, female writers writing male characters. This is a question of talent, nothing more. And let's face it, bar a few examples here and there, games writing is pretty damned awful (or at the very least, generic and lacking intelligence). Raise the quality of writers hired, and you raise the quality of writing. Or, hire female writers.
Edit:
Also, remove all mention of women, and you can see all I'm asking for is essentially "Write better games and characters, dammit!" Which we can all agree on. 
Pixieking
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tonizito
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 16:55 Post subject: |
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It's what, bithell's 2nd or 3rd game? Maybe he's not confident enough to go at it with a female character just yet?
Or maybe he really just doesn't care and is not interested in having a female protagonist. What's wrong about that? His game, his rules.
And raising the quality of writing in games really doesn't have nothing to do with having a female character, now does it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 17:05 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | It's what, bithell's 2nd or 3rd game? Maybe he's not confident enough to go at it with a female character just yet?
Or maybe he really just doesn't care and is not interested in having a female protagonist. What's wrong about that? His game, his rules.
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Correction: Just saw this, and apparently he switched genders. My mistake.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/mike-bithell-i-couldnt-write-a-genderless-character
But my point about being able to back up the decision stands - as long as there is a creative reason for it, then fine. But how many games have we all played where, quite honestly, the main character could've been a woman and the game would be the same?
| tonizito wrote: |
And raising the quality of writing in games really doesn't have nothing to do with having a female character, now does it. |
| tonizito wrote: |
Being a man it will be easier for me to write my game protagonist as a man.
I know (mostly) how a man acts, reacts, thinks, etc so it seems like a pretty logical, cost and time saving decision.
|
I read "Easier for me" as a question of talent. I have no experience writing fiction, but I can write about an opera loving white dude with a ponytail, because I am one. It doesn't take much talent to write something you know (or are). It takes quite a bit of talent to write - convincingly - about something you aren't, or have no experience of. (Well, talent and empathy, if people want to be pedantic. )
Pixieking
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 17:37 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | We're approaching this from two different angles. You're talking about regulation. I'm talking about awareness. |
Terms such as "forcing" go beyond mere awareness, which is my point. As I said earlier, I have no problems with people desiring broader representation and I have no problem with devs/publishers providing it, if they so choose. Where I take issue is any suggestion that devs/publishers are required to provide it.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 17:45 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | tonizito wrote: |
And raising the quality of writing in games really doesn't have nothing to do with having a female character, now does it. |
| tonizito wrote: |
Being a man it will be easier for me to write my game protagonist as a man.
I know (mostly) how a man acts, reacts, thinks, etc so it seems like a pretty logical, cost and time saving decision.
|
I read "Easier for me" as a question of talent. I have no experience writing fiction, but I can write about an opera loving white dude with a ponytail, because I am one. It doesn't take much talent to write something you know (or are). It takes quite a bit of talent to write - convincingly - about something you aren't, or have no experience of. (Well, talent and empathy, if people want to be pedantic. ) |
I see it more as a question of experience than a question of talent. But say it is related to his talent.
So what?
He should just quit? He should stop making games because he is not talented enough to write a female character or because he doesn't want ho hire someone (not necessarily a woman, SJW-knights start your horses *now*) to write good stuff for a female character?
Let's say that he makes the games that he makes for fun, for himself too. Don't like it, don't buy it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Neon
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 18:07 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | The default for games characters is - generally speaking - men. And I think that default is bad. |
And why is that? Since when being a man in a video game is bad? Don't you see a double standard here? How isn't what you're saying sexist in itself?
| Quote: | | Some way of forcing developers to properly consider gender of player and non-player-characters is something that I believe would benefit everyone - women, other races, and other sexualities. |
Of course, but where exactly do you draw the line? You have to draw it somewhere, otherwise you'll end up with hundreds of "token" characters. If you include a homosexual NPC, hundreds of radical SJWs will demand transsexual characters. If you include homosexual and transsexual characters, another hundred will demand a character that is disabled. You do that, another couple will demand a combination of all those (disabled trannsexual homosexual blue-haired other-kin lesbians, here we come!). There is no real possibility to do what you propose, unless you want the devs to go over a checklist every time they create a game:
☑ At least one homosexual
☑ At least one transsexual
☑ At least one disabled person
Et cetera, which kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?
| Quote: | | It woud not only create a fairer representation for current minorities - and representation does play a factor in enjoyment - but it would also force better writing and character development. |
Of course, but you have to wager it against what I said earlier. This reminds me of GTA V review on Gamespot, the game was reviewed by a transsexual person, and one of the complaints was that the jokes in the game ridicule women and trans people. The complaint is fine, a review is a subjective opinion after all, but you have to be aware that the subject that annoys you as a trans person isn't a problem for 99,9999999999999% of the audience.
| Quote: | | Women are often lazily represented, and whilst men are just as lazily represented in places, it's more obvious with women, because of what's used - strip-clubs. Brothels. Prostitutes. |
How are women being used as eyecandy more lazily represented than another gravelly-voiced muscular man?
| Quote: | | Forcing this is not something I want, but rather something that I think is needed, if the industry is to broaden its demographic horizons, and to mature in development. |
How is the inclusion of minorities make the game more mature? Would "Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons" be more mature if the main characters were sisters? Would it be more mature if they were homosexuals or transsexuals?
| Pixieking wrote: |
For large publishers, it would be easy enough to hire a small vetting team to just ask pertinent questions about the story and characters: "Did you consider a woman here? Is this strip-club necessary? Why is this character white, rather than chinese or hispanic?" |
But what is the point of these questions? Why are strip-clubs problematic, but killing literally hundreds of men is a non-issue? Why was GTA V criticized for its female representation, while there is a mission that forces you to torture, what you find out moments later, an innocent man with a variety of tools, including smashing his arms with a hammer, using pliers to pull his teeth out, electrocuting him and waterboarding him?
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 19:01 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | I see it more as a question of experience than a question of talent.
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Good point.
| tonizito wrote: |
But say it is related to his talent.
So what?
He should just quit? He should stop making games because he is not talented enough to write a female character or because he doesn't want ho hire someone (not necessarily a woman, SJW-knights start your horses *now*) to write good stuff for a female character?
Let's say that he makes the games that he makes for fun, for himself too. Don't like it, don't buy it. |
Well, there's two way this goes... I suppose it's all context, in that sense.
1) AAA game. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars. The pub/dev should be able to write a good story/characters. It's like producing a movie, and then asking your 7 year old nephew to write it. Why would you? Why would you waste good money developing a shitty story with lazy characters, and god-awful dialogue? It's bad business, if nothing else.
2) Personal indie game. In which case, sure, you're right. Bad writing? Who cares.
An off-shoot from 2 is that everyone's got to learn somewhere. As you say, experience plays a part in being a good writer.
| Neon wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: | | The default for games characters is - generally speaking - men. And I think that default is bad. |
And why is that? Since when being a man in a video game is bad? Don't you see a double standard here? How isn't what you're saying sexist in itself? |
It's not bad. I didn't say it was. I said that when the character is automatically a man, then you should ask why, even if it's just to satisfy creative curiousity.
Edit: In a sense, I did say it was bad. What I meant was that there being a default at all is bad. Or, to phrase it better: go into story/character development with an open mind, not just "I'm gonna write about a white man, yo!".
| Neon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Some way of forcing developers to properly consider gender of player and non-player-characters is something that I believe would benefit everyone - women, other races, and other sexualities. |
Of course, but where exactly do you draw the line? You have to draw it somewhere, otherwise you'll end up with hundreds of "token" characters. |
Again, it's that this should be properly considered. If the story doesn't need a trans* character, don't put one in. But right now, I don't see anything like proper consideration. (Which, btw, doesn't mean it isn't there, just that I don't see it. But perception matters here.)
| Neon wrote: |
This reminds me of GTA V review on Gamespot, the game was reviewed by a transsexual person, and one of the complaints was that the jokes in the game ridicule women and trans people. The complaint is fine, a review is a subjective opinion after all, but you have to be aware that the subject that annoys you as a trans person isn't a problem for 99,9999999999999% of the audience. |
Oh, indeed, but, let's be honest here. We're not arguing against monolithic faceless computers. Pubs and devs are run by people - someone should at least say "Hey, this mocks a group of people that are touchy", at which point, the pub should be prepared for the negative fallout (which 99% of pubs/devs aren't, which is how you can tell they haven;'t considered the issue).
| Neon wrote: |
How are women being used as eyecandy more lazily represented than another gravelly-voiced muscular man? |
Errr... Where's that pic of all the LoL characters, with every woman in a submissive pose, and every man in a dominant pose? Regardless of that, though, arguing that both groups are lazily represented isn't good. Instead of that, how about people argue that both groups should be represented better?
| Neon wrote: |
How is the inclusion of minorities make the game more mature? Would "Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons" be more mature if the main characters were sisters? Would it be more mature if they were homosexuals or transsexuals? |
No. But equally, I think gaming is missing out on themes that aren't expressed all that well, because there's a lack of representation. That's entirely subjective, I think, though. I certainly can't provide evdiennce we would have the gaming equivalent of The Wire if we had more races/sexualities in gaming, though that is what I think.
| Pixieking wrote: |
For large publishers, it would be easy enough to hire a small vetting team to just ask pertinent questions about the story and characters: "Did you consider a woman here? Is this strip-club necessary? Why is this character white, rather than chinese or hispanic?" |
| Neon wrote: |
But what is the point of these questions? Why are strip-clubs problematic, but killing literally hundreds of men is a non-issue? Why was GTA V criticized for its female representation, while there is a mission that forces you to torture, what you find out moments later, an innocent man with a variety of tools, including smashing his arms with a hammer, using pliers to pull his teeth out, electrocuting him and waterboarding him? |
I think it's assumptions, acceptance and wider culture. Violence and games have been together forever (almost). It's accepted that games will be stupidly violent, like most of our mainstream culture is, and it's accepted that violence is better than sex in. Not agreeing with it - in fact, I massively disagree with it - but it's accepted. But female representation - and other representation - in wider culture is gaining ground. Hang on...
| Quote: | The past 10 years have seen a shift that not only encompasses women and blacks, but other cultural and racial minorities. Women wanting equal representation in media, but also fairer representation in media (less Size Zeros on magazine covers), as well as issues outside of media. Fairer pay in the boardroom. More women as senior executives. The acceptance of Gay Marriage could not have happened 10 years ago. The slow acceptance of the Trans* community couldn't have happened 10 years ago. The shift away from racial profiliing, in stop-and-search and at airports. A growing number of women as creators/writers/artists in the comics industry.
The fact is, the world is (generally speaking) becoming more liberal, and with that liberality comes a desire to force equality in places that have so far resisted it - video-games and comics, especially, since they've always been male-dominated areas where there's an undercurrent of misogyny and "fapping to women". |
is what I posted on one of the gi.biz threads. I think it answers your question as much as I can answer it (at this point in time, after a couple of beers).
Pixieking
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tonizito
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 19:11 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | Well, there's two way this goes... I suppose it's all context, in that sense.
1) AAA game. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars. The pub/dev should be able to write a good story/characters. It's like producing a movie, and then asking your 7 year old nephew to write it. Why would you? Why would you waste good money developing a shitty story with lazy characters, and god-awful dialogue? It's bad business, if nothing else.
2) Personal indie game. In which case, sure, you're right. Bad writing? Who cares.
An off-shoot from 2 is that everyone's got to learn somewhere. As you say, experience plays a part in being a good writer. |
It was 2) all along since our discussion was around an indie dev.
But in any case I fully agree with 1) but once again just get the person/team that can put out the best possible story/game/etc even if (SJW trigger warning !1) they are straight white males.
Oh and get some non retarded PR teams unlike ubilol's
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 22:34 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | The "best" sentence in the whole article:
| Quote: | | I know that our female readers - by virtue of being women - do not need me to point out that the average male is sexist. |
Prejudice and sexism against both sexes in one sentence? Do we have a winner? |
Fuck off, fuck right off! I'm not sexist purely because I'm not a feminazi! Fuck off! Yes, I have many conservative beliefs, like a man should be a man, and a woman should be a woman.
I can back it up with countless research papers, how feminism has made both women and men unhappy, by trying to force this completely artificial mold on both sexes. There are differences, there will always be differences. This is biological and scientific.
Tyring to make women and men equal in all aspects is called social engineering - nazis have tried it, communists have tried it - it just never works.
Bet I'm like Hitler levels of evil, because I dare have an opinion different than feminazi bloggers.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 22:39 Post subject: |
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Also, was watching Sex and the City last night, did you guise notice, that none of the main characters are males? BAN THE SHOW RITE NAO!
That's the level of logic in these posts ^^
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 22:55 Post subject: |
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I am a white male and I prefer to play as man in video games. Color of skin or race don't matter at all.
My saints row character has afro and mustache. And my oblivion character is black dude with afro and I like it that way,
Generally in games where character creation is involved, I play as a dude because I want to makes someone who I can compare myself to (in some way)
But in games where there is no choice and playable character is female (like Tomb raider) It is completly fine!
Character have to fit the story and game atmosphere. You can't just say there should be a woman playable in every game. Plot is written in each game, the way to fit character it was created in mind with
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jun 2014 23:09 Post subject: |
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Playing a woman/young adult in Tomb Raider was COMPLETELY fine. Just like playing a female in Remember Me, or Mirror's Edge or any game. And since I really enjoyed games, and understood, that the stories revolve around women, I had no problem playing a woman - just like I am fairly certain, now woman has problem playing Batman or the unnamed hero in Gothic.
So let's fuck off with this pretend issue of bored middle-class people.
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jun 2014 02:57 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | So let's fuck off with this pretend issue of bored middle-class people. |
This, pretty much. Not meaning to trivialise anyone's arguments on this page, all of which are well-reasoned and have good points on both sides, but it all comes down to this ^^ It's a non-issue that has been blown massively out of proportion by a tiny, a genuinely minuscule, amount of internet warriors and scam artist cunts like Anita and John who only exist to create drama and fan the flames of rage.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51399
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jun 2014 14:01 Post subject: |
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/06/24/rainbow-six-siege-hostage-mode-male-hostages/
Also, why not just state "we still haven't the male models completely up to date so we went with a female one". Don't paint a mark on your back FFS.
EDIT: Better yet, like one of the comments says:
| Quote: | | If they were smart, they’d have said the woman in the demo was transgendered, just to put the journalists on the defensive for once. |
"You thought that was a woman? HOW DARE YOU, YOU CIS SCUM?! "
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jun 2014 15:18 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | | So let's fuck off with this pretend issue of bored middle-class people. |
This, pretty much. Not meaning to trivialise anyone's arguments on this page, all of which are well-reasoned and have good points on both sides, but it all comes down to this ^^ It's a non-issue that has been blown massively out of proportion by a tiny, a genuinely minuscule, amount of internet warriors and scam artist cunts like Anita and John who only exist to create drama and fan the flames of rage. |
I'd only add the little tidbit to this, that Anita is doing this for the moneyz. Spreading false ideology, that white-knighting ners will eat right up, whilst she is gettin' da moneyz for it. Can't really think of her as honest ...
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18934
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jun 2014 23:25 Post subject: |
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