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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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 Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 18:43 Post subject: Fucking doctors not listening |
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Probably not the best place to bitch about such a personal issue, but I got to vent.
Long story short, due to doctors not listening/caring, and my wife not refusing to accept the option (giving an ex-addict the choice of having it freely is never good), she is rehooked on hydrocodone, she had a problem with them long ago in her dancer years..along with other, less legal things.
Shes has a small back muscle problem, and went to pain management. She claims she pointed out she has had a history of problems with opiates to the doctor (oxy, roxy, what have you). And doctor said it was the only viable option to stop the pain until a treatment could be worked out, and cause discovered.
Now its 4 months later...shes not even looking for the treatment options, or another plan...just happy she can keep getting them now.
What was a small back problem, is now all she talks about, and how she needs X amount of pills so she can function everyday, an excuse and coverup reason for her addiction.
Her life revolves around how many she has, counting them daily and doing the math trying to justify how she can take more than needed, and talking herself into taking more (8-9 a day) making her short on her monthly amount and saying she will 'make up for it' another day, which never happens.
A few times shes gave them to me to hold so she wouldn't take as many...all that caused was her digging around my office while I sleep to find where I hid them, and steal some...then deny she did. Arguments ensue, and that plan lasted all of a week.
Shes now talking my aunt into selling some of hers to her behind my back, to make up for the ones she taken too many of, just to take them all that day. And she always makes sure she has one left the day of her doc appt, so its in her system when they test so she can get more.
And as usual addict style, Somehow when we talk about it:
Its my fault, the doctors fault, everyone but herself is at fault it got to this, and somehow everyone else is to blame for her taking them all day and her willingly refilling the prescriptions when she gets them knowing its going to turn out bad.
The old "if everyone would just get off my back, I could get past this myself" cop out.
Not sure if anyone has any suggestions, or feedback, or even cares...I just needed to vent.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 19:17 Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear that DX, only way I know to kick an addiction is knowing it's a problem. So she needs to get that through (but I'm not sure you can do it). Have you told her doctor about the recent behaviour? And if they don't care ( they should lose their license IMO!) try to get her family or friends involved.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 19:26 Post subject: |
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Im on the fence about calling her doctor I haven't talked to him directly. I've considered calling him and letting him know..but also don't want to hell fire argument that will come from it once she goes back to see him.
The whole "how dare you call him behind my back that was just underhanded, and make out like its a bigger problem than it is, causing him to take me off the thing that helped my pain!".
As far as getting her family involved..no use in doing that, we hardly talk to them much in the last 6-7 years, because they are 10x worse about it.
They have been doc farming for pills and making trade deals with others over them since before I met her. She use to complain about them to me doing, what shes doing in a smaller scale now.
Why I think she has a hard time noticing the problem. Since she can tell herself "Im not like them, now THEY are addicts!".
She admits its a 'small problem' when its a lot more than that..she confuses being in pain with not being an addict. Somehow that she cant be an addict, since she needs them for her back. As if somehow you cant have pain AND be an addict on the thing that helps the pain at the same time.
The logic of: "Addicts take them to get high, I take them to feel normal". and no matter how many times I try to point out that after a certain point, the high is gone and 'to feel normal' is why addicts still take too many a day once the fun of them is gone..that's what an addiction is.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 19:30 Post subject: |
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Yup get on to her doctor and outline the issues as you have done HERE. then its in his interest at her next appointment checkup/prescription to say, you know what I think due to your past history its now time to ween off these.
He can do this without even passing the buck to YOU, he just has to say its his idea. And any doctor should do this, if its brought to his attention. Make it HIS problem if he does not help you out with this.
I do not know mike why you are not doing this, I have no need to read your post about the flak you could get from it if she finds out it was you, at end of day this is about her right? the kids etc and what is best? Should of been done the moment you noticed a problem 
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 19:37 Post subject: |
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Im really debating calling him, I just got to hope he doesn't point out where he got the info. I don't need her off them AND blaming me for the detox/withdrawls. She will be seeking out someone to take it out on..I dont need her to have direct ammo to point it at me.
Shes already out until wend of next week, and in withdraws: sleeping, grumpy, in the bathroom 10 times a day, up and down emotionally..calling my aunt every 2 hours hoping to get some.
So i dont need to give her a lighter for the dynamite waiting to explode, you know..lol
I haven't done it yet because Im still having hope she will snap out of it on her own willpower, she has before a decade ago. without me having to be the 'controlling asshole' to make it happen.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 19:57 Post subject: |
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well
1) The doctor should not tell her where any info came from, there is no INFO as you say because its his professional opinion being given to her and its up to him ween her off them, she wont get withdrawals unless the doctor is an asshole and does it incorrectly.
2) stop being a pussy about it she is your wife and mother to your children you have an obligation.
You should also mention to him what she has been doing with the medication to get more, with that leaving one stuff etc.. she is pulling the wool over the doctors eyes and that in itself for the doctor should deem enough obviousness she is in an addicted state.
right? therefor leaving it in his hands and nothing to do with you because he now has an obligation also to stop treating her with them if she is addicted..
come on man whats with you, you are an American, get the guns out
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 20:17 Post subject: |
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Maybe you could go with her, and tell the doctor what you're thinking in front of her. (But tell her all that before, obviously).
I probably wouldn't do things without telling her, unless there was a clear solution, and in this case I'm not sure the doctor will be such a big help... or will he?
Another thing is you started this by blaming the doctor (fkin doc wont listen), now you want her to take responsibility. It's a messy situation, but maybe the blaming thing won't help anyone... maybe you could tell her you're on her side always, and ask her what you can do to help. I'd write a letter instead of talking, 'cause it helps you be less emotional and it makes her read the full thing instead of arguing before you finish.
Also, did she try acupuncture? I know some people who swear by it.
P.S. I don't really know your situation, but I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything... anyway, hope you sort things out soon.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 20:26 Post subject: |
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Well I know she wont let me go with her, that would cause a fight because she knows why I would want to be going 
And the blame on the doctors was more me venting than actual blame. For all I know she never told them it was an addiction she had in the past...and shes lying about that to. Doctor may have no clue.
I've tried all the ways I can think of, telling her Im supportive of helping..all that does is give her "you said you wouldn't get angry when I overdid it, you would understand that I may fall down again trying to get up" rebuttal. basically her seeing it as having her cake and eating it too..take what she wants, and Ill try to be understanding and quiet that its going to take time to get better, and that time never starts to come.
I've tried talking, arguing, making compromises, making demands, letting it go and see what happens, being the 'yes man' of listening and walking on eggshells the 'kill them with kindness and love' approach..writing out letters to each other, they all result in the same thing. Either she does it and hides it totally, or does it and lies about how much she is hoping I wont question it.
And she probably would try acupuncture as an option, if we can get her past this one. Shes enjoying this one too much to even want to try another because she knows the 'oxy supply' would no longer be available if she moved on.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 23:29 Post subject: |
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Do you two have kids?
Anyway before you answer that i think you should definitely talk to her doctor and explain the situation. Hoping he's a decent doctor he should at least talk to her (maybe without mentioning your involvement).
Now for some personal stories, i had my cousin on heroin for a short time and it was hell for his family and me and my mother. The biggest problem is that they are brilliant manipulators because they will do anything to get them to believe you. The worst is, what i would call, emotional blackmail. In your case i would guess its pointing out your characteristic failures, maybe even ones as a husband (overblown of course), but these things tend to work extremely well, because they totally change the original subject (addiction) and usually make you feel guilty. Whatever is aimed at making you feel guilty is total bullshit, so watch out for those.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 23:35 Post subject: |
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Doctors make people addicts. Simple as that. Surveys also show that doctors with a lot of patients easily just describe pills to temp. fix the problem.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2014 23:38 Post subject: |
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Yea xxax shes been doing that, anytime I bring it up, its a subject change attempt. And a diversion of something that I did related to the problem, or doing, or even me 'badgering' her about it currently that becomes the topic.
Then when I try to steer it back I get "you keep repeating yourself over and over and Im tired of talking about it" no I don't, I keep trying to start the same important conversation over and over, and it never moves because its deflected to something else. How can you be tired of talking about something that never gets talked about more than 15 seconds?...lol
And I have 2 kids, why you ask?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 00:59 Post subject: |
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Could you, maybe, ask her to write down every time she takes a pill, so that she can see for herself how much it is? Tell her it can be in a hidden place where only she will see, it's not for you to control her, but for herself not to lose control...
Like "took one pill at 10am. Took one at 4pm....". By the end of the week she will have a better understanding of how much she's taking.
I believe there's only so much you can do, in the end she has to want to address the problem herself...
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 07:53 Post subject: |
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Talk to the doctor and make her start a rundown( correct word?) for your wife(there is lots of reasons for not taking this kind of medicin for to long). Explicitly tell the doctor not to say you called and tell your wife that you will help her if the needs arise.
It is preferably to be an ally compared to an enemy.
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 09:29 Post subject: |
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I am in no place to give advice, having never experienced anything even remotely similar, so I will just say whatever you decide good luck 
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 10:15 Post subject: |
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I'm surprised they allow this to happen in the US - here in Belgium, doctors refrain from using addictive substances unless it's absolutely necessary and then, they prefer a nurse coming around once a day to administer it as a shot instead of pills. Your wife is evidence of why they do this - drug addiction is rampant in the US sadly enough but with the pharmaceutical companies bribing the politicians (I refuse to call lobbies and party/campaign donations anything else) it doesn't surprise me.
But surely there must be some way to stop the prescriptions from happening? Are you telling me people are allowed to continue to take these pills indefinitely despite their addictive nature? That makes no sense - US health care is more fucked up than I thought possible if this is true.
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 10:17 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | I'm surprised they allow this to happen in the US |
the cynic inside me see's the idea of people becoming addicted to drugs that they are charged a fortune for as a good idea for Pill companies.
I am sure thats not the case here, but when you have money being made in a serious fashion of peoples ill health, it is hard not to be cynical.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 16:14 Post subject: |
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Well after a night of arguing, discussing, and so forth as is par for last 2 weeks. She let it slip that she DIDN'T tell the doctor to start with about her past problem. She only recently suggested she would like to look into switching meds..so he has no clue.
BUT she wants to switch to another type of opiate..think its more because shes building a tolerance for these, than wanting to stop. You don't say you have a drinking problem and switching from ale to lagers to help. 
So i guess monday I will get involved somehow(they are closed today)..didn't want to be able to be labeled as the enemy here, hopefully the doc will keep it confidential where he got the info.
And in the US they kinda do that red_avatar, they wont let someone they know is addicted purposely keep getting them. But you COULD be on opiate pain meds for a decade, long as you show no signs of addiction around them.my aunt has been on some variation of these meds for 7+ years for 'chronic non-repairable' pains. Is she an addict? no idea.she don't abuse them. but im sure some dependency of some form has kicked in for her.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 19:54 Post subject: |
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Looks like she is in for the "rush",is the stuff shes getting the "timed release" variant?
| paxsali wrote: |
Now, I don't know what hardware costs in Poland, I guess it's cheaper because everything is stolen from Germany and resold... |
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:06 Post subject: |
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How would a doctor know the situation at home? What did you or our wife tell him he didn't listen to? Doctors are just like humans, they need to know what happened to act. If you know your wife has a problem, you should go to her doctor and tell him what is going on. There is no "going behind her back" in this case, you are basically her caretaker at home now.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:24 Post subject: |
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She had the slow release ones, but shes was crushing them and taking the powder I found out a few week ago Betty. She also had/has adderall from another doctor (not sure, she keep saying shes not getting them anymore, if she is shes hiding the bottle) on TOP of the hydrocodones.
And what I was saying Mister-S. she claimed she told him about the problem she had in the past, and how she shouldn't have them, but it was his short term solution until a plan could be made for her...come to find out she never did.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:57 Post subject: |
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I'm not a psychiatrist, but the worst thing you can do is being gentle. Go to her doctor, tell what happened and start working on a course of treatment if necessary.
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2014 02:49 Post subject: |
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In my experience the best thing you can do is be gentle, as long as you in some way get her into treatment without showing it explicitly. You are supposed to be her husband giving support not a strict care taker overlooking her every step. Proffesional people from outside should do that.
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Vechter
Posts: 1029
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2014 02:56 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | I'm not a psychiatrist, but the worst thing you can do is being gentle. Go to her doctor, tell what happened and start working on a course of treatment if necessary. |
I agree, you need to do something asap. She need support AND help, not one without the other! Anyway, good luck man !
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2014 10:29 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | In my experience the best thing you can do is be gentle, as long as you in some way get her into treatment without showing it explicitly. You are supposed to be her husband giving support not a strict care taker overlooking her every step. Proffesional people from outside should do that. |
Bullshit. As her husband he's the only one that can react firmly, because as her partner he is directly involved with this shit. Also giving her support for what? Her addiction? When she wants to stop then be supportive.
And are you kidding about professional people? They are there to help you when you want it, they don't come barging in to help you.
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RatKing
Posts: 1212
Location: Nondescript cave in the land of the polar bears, Finland
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2014 13:06 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: | | Atropa wrote: | | In my experience the best thing you can do is be gentle, as long as you in some way get her into treatment without showing it explicitly. You are supposed to be her husband giving support not a strict care taker overlooking her every step. Proffesional people from outside should do that. |
Bullshit. As her husband he's the only one that can react firmly, because as her partner he is directly involved with this shit. Also giving her support for what? Her addiction? When she wants to stop then be supportive.
And are you kidding about professional people? They are there to help you when you want it, they don't come barging in to help you. |
Couldn't agree with you more.
Keep a stiff upper lip, DX. You can do this. |
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2014 16:20 Post subject: |
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there is something called an intervention where u get the whole family and friends involved, and if that dont work, divorce her or at least use it as a threath, to make her come to her sences ... , addicts are 90% at the roots of family dramas... u dont want her to drown your kid one day cause she was delerious and heard voices tell her they are ther spawn of the devil and kill ur or kids or u or whatever .... ticking time bomb to go off
she is lying all the time wtf ... u got more patience then me, good luck man, but life is to short , looks like she made her choice ...
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Mar 2014 21:08 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: |
Bullshit. As her husband he's the only one that can react firmly, because as her partner he is directly involved with this shit. Also giving her support for what? Her addiction? When she wants to stop then be supportive.
And are you kidding about professional people? They are there to help you when you want it, they don't come barging in to help you. |
Well I can only speak from my own experience here. The professional people I've dealt with regarding mental dissorders have been, well professional. When it is a person very near to you you easily loose track of your own emotions, making you say and do stupid unnecessary things. Having some outside person taking the worst arguments help.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Mar 2014 22:09 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | xxax wrote: |
Bullshit. As her husband he's the only one that can react firmly, because as her partner he is directly involved with this shit. Also giving her support for what? Her addiction? When she wants to stop then be supportive.
And are you kidding about professional people? They are there to help you when you want it, they don't come barging in to help you. |
Well I can only speak from my own experience here. The professional people I've dealt with regarding mental dissorders have been, well professional. When it is a person very near to you you easily loose track of your own emotions, making you say and do stupid unnecessary things. Having some outside person taking the worst arguments help. |
I'm not trying to discredit professional people, but to gain access to them, in this case, his wife needs to actually seek their help. That's the problem here, since she doesn't think it is a problem or that its bad enough.
You can't just call up a professional and say my wife is having problems, since all this stuff is based on you actually wanting help.
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