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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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 Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:30 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | Actually, there was a quiz about the awareness of piracy in UK or some other bigger European state and many people answered they didn't know they were commiting copyright infringement. Others just said they don't fear a danger while downlaoading/uploading illegal material.
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And your implying the general publics awareness of implications of piracy, is upon the same standards of understanding as people on a piracy board?
then enlighten me..tell me the implications of it, and I ll let you know if I already knew about them, and we can stop this thread.
as obviously by posting it to this narrow of a crowd, you wish to enlighten some of us to things we didnt know...or why bring it up to us?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:36 Post subject: |
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I was just making this topic for discussion, just like i am doing. I was stating facts in the first post that's as plain as the nose on your face.
And like i said before, this board isn't a board for pirates but a small community for old-time members participating in all kinds of topics. The warez side of it has lost its meaning a long time ago.
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:37 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | You very well confirmed why harsh Diablo 3 styled copy protection measures are needed.
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Wut? D3 has no copy protection whatsoever, you can even download the client from Blizzard's site.
It just acts like an MMO, with most of the data being grabbed from Blizzard's servers.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:43 Post subject: |
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Yes, i was referring to this approach. And it's an effective one.
Add couple of years for the public to get faster PCs, encrypt the whole communication of client and server (including inner-client interpretation of calls), thus making impossible any private server attempt also.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:47 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | I was just making this topic for discussion, just like i am doing. I was stating facts in the first post that's as plain as the nose on your face.
And like i said before, this board isn't a board for pirates but a small community for old-time members participating in all kinds of topics. The warez side of it has lost its meaning a long time ago. |
And its plain as the nose on our face..we already know it..why bring it up as a debate topic.
the Sky is blue, is that a topic to 'discuss'? no. but you seem to think something else just as obvious is.
what was your point of the post then? to get different sides? obvious with the 'discuss' implication you gave.
we are all on the same page, its it what it is.
difference is you want to make us see the 'wrong' for doing it.
when we know of the wrong, and dont care.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:50 Post subject: |
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You like to repeat yourself a lot. I got your message. The essence of it.
And i on the other hand said this mentality needs a change, and harsh countermeasures are the only vitable solutions.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:57 Post subject: |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2012 23:58 Post subject: |
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so we are in agreement,
You disagree with it and want it stopped, I don't see a problem with it..but both know what it is.
Welcome to the world, enjoy your stay, you will find many many people that see things differently than you, and don't like being told "well I SEE it this way, and you must see it this way also".
You want it changed, then change it, but don't start with me as the first case of trying, you will just spin your wheels in frustration. as the knowledge of what it is is level for both of us, and you have no persuasive information to give that I already don't possess, considered and deemed, for me anyway, as not a viable argument weighed against the gains.
perhaps you should start portraying it more like that last post of "Well I think in my opinion" and less in a way of "It should be this way, because I believe it should be".
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 01:00 Post subject: |
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I'm ... true neutral, I guess.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 01:01 Post subject: |
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I stopped pirating PC Games once steam really took off. I started buying up my entire pirated music collection lately due to the policy changes of iTunes. DRM-Free files, and now you can download them from any computer off the iCloud? Cool. I'll pay $10 per album for that. Even better is how if you have the original album on CD and the album is also on iTunes, it will 'unlock' the songs/album so you can just download them from iTunes whenever you want.
The only format I continue to pirate are movies. If there were a service which offered 1080p bluray rip quality (8-12GB file size) i'd happily pay for it. The best I can get is a limited selection off of iTunes that are hugely compressed for being 1080p. No thanks. I'll just download the scene release.
So for me IMO, movies are the only media realm remaining which I pirate for the reason I mentioned. If you make the service for the customer easy to use, and offer quality to match more people will stop pirating.
The people that are poor will continue pirating anyways. I can't imagine i'm the only person in the untapped market who would love to give the proper people their money for movies if the service wasn't such shit. I refuse to shell out money for bluray's/DVD's. $30-$50 for 2 hours of entertainment is fucking bullshit. Plus, I have to goto the store to buy them. Fuck that.
It just boggles my mind how much potential revenue the movie industry is currently loosing out on because they can't get with the fucking times. Didn't take long for the PC gaming industry to figure out they could make a fortune with services like Steam. The music industry seems to have finally figured it out in the past year or so.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 01:09 Post subject: |
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Yeah, the same for me nowadays. It just is so easy to comply at low prices.
I have a streaming account on spotify. I buy computer games (but veeeeeeeeery limited), maybe 1 or 2 per year for pc or Wii. But indeed, i refuse to pay for movies.
I don't get it that producers don't get it. Why would i pay 20 - 30 euros for a DVD of a movie. It's not like i will ever rewatch the movie, who does that? If i want to see it, i go to the cinema, it's 5-10 euros. If i really really really want to see it again, i go a second time. By the time it is on DVD, i can watch it on tv or on the internet. Who buys movies DVDs anyways? Even if i wanted to, i can wait 6 months and pick them up at 5 euros in the discount corner at the grocery store.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 06:13 Post subject: |
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Dont get me wrong, I do buy many games.
But I do do my share of pirating of game also.
Im a bit of the opposite of others I guess..Im not one of the "burned enough by bought games to pirate"
I started pirating because back in the day when poor, I couldn't afford them..and yes yes I get the "well poor is no reason to do it"...but I did, it is what it is.
And after downloading many many games to install it and go "MAN I'm glad i didn't buy this! it sucks"..i realized there is no way Im buying 99% of games without trying them first, and not the "totally biased demos" that show off only the good parts of games, like movie trailers do..to find out the whole game is crap.
So yes, like I admitted before I pirate as much as the next guy, But any games I feel is worth it I buy first chance I get.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 08:11 Post subject: |
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at OP, you sound like piracy is the root of all the problems in our capitalistic society. Dont get me wrong I think capitalism is the lesser of all evil forms of society but what does it say when a company tries to fool people into buying their shit product by swaying reviewers to their favor and producing the same game over and over and over with a little polish.
Piracy is causality at its finest. Someone produces crap, that crap gets leeched like crazy. Hell often its not even worth the bandwith to leech a game or movie.
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 09:34 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 09:57 Post subject: |
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| Acer wrote: | at OP, you sound like piracy is the root of all the problems in our capitalistic society. Dont get me wrong I think capitalism is the lesser of all evil forms of society but what does it say when a company tries to fool people into buying their shit product by swaying reviewers to their favor and producing the same game over and over and over with a little polish.
Piracy is causality at its finest. Someone produces crap, that crap gets leeched like crazy. Hell often its not even worth the bandwith to leech a game or movie. |
If the firm sells poor quality and/or shit looking cloth, you won't buy it. But you also don't steal it from the shop, wear it for couple of days and be disappoint.
I know and get the everlasting debate about copying a software doesn't lose the source, so the loss is lesser. But the standpoint stands same. Doesn't mean different means of medium (virtual in this case) somehow overlook infringement. We wouldn't have any development and real competition if no copyright laws and patent office existed.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 10:31 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | | Acer wrote: | at OP, you sound like piracy is the root of all the problems in our capitalistic society. Dont get me wrong I think capitalism is the lesser of all evil forms of society but what does it say when a company tries to fool people into buying their shit product by swaying reviewers to their favor and producing the same game over and over and over with a little polish.
Piracy is causality at its finest. Someone produces crap, that crap gets leeched like crazy. Hell often its not even worth the bandwith to leech a game or movie. |
If the firm sells poor quality and/or shit looking cloth, you won't buy it. But you also don't steal it from the shop, wear it for couple of days and be disappoint.
I know and get the everlasting debate about copying a software doesn't lose the source, so the loss is lesser. But the standpoint stands same. Doesn't mean different means of medium (virtual in this case) somehow overlook infringement. We wouldn't have any development and real competition if no copyright laws and patent office existed. |
Im not debating wether its ok to pirate something or not, just stating a fact about the way some look at the problem. Piracy is a symptom of something else, some deeper problem.
Companies who cant get with the times will eventually go bankrupt. Instead of complaining about piracy, why not try to emulate it. The consumer states the rules of the market, give me an option thats more convinient than pirating software and I promise you piracy will drop drastically. Its wrong way to go, forcing the consumer to obey the rules set by the company, giving people the permission to buy their product.
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 10:39 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | | If the firm sells poor quality and/or shit looking cloth, you won't buy it. But you also don't steal it from the shop, wear it for couple of days and be disappoint. |
If a firm sells me a shirt that looks awesome but falls apart in a few weeks, I sure as hell do return it. I'd do the same with games - but I can't. There's a lot of games that look good, but are absolutely terrible. I've become quite good at spotting the shit games so I haven't wasted any of my money recently, but considering demos are a no-no these days and we can't return games (ESPECIALLY digital downloads), piracy are my try-before-I-buy.
It's the same reason I don't go to the cinema anymore. There's far too few films I actually like these days. Meanwhile I do have the shit I do like on DVD/Blu-Ray (sometimes even both) and I don't mind paying for it. I've got the BoB BR tin, LotR on both DVD and BR, Deadwood on BR and so on.
| evribadi wrote: | | We wouldn't have any development and real competition if no copyright laws and patent office existed. |
Wait, you think the current patent systems are good for development, competition and progress? If anything, they hinder it. Just look at all the fucking bullshit lawsuits going on between Google, Motorola, Samsung, Apple and MS. Especially USPTO is the biggest fucking joke in the world; things like "prior art" and "public domain" are meaningless with them. As long as you can spin it right, you'll get your patent. And you say copyright protects IP? Yeah, I'm sure all the web developers who came up with cool interface ideas and had it stolen by MS and Apple agree with you. A lot of UI and UX innovation happens in the open source world nowadays, meaning there are no funds whatsoever to take on one of these giants. No, being a developer myself I don't feel protected at all.
When they implement a law that'll let me return games for not being what they advertise, that's when I'll stop pirating. Mind you, I do buy almost everything I even bother pirating (and there's a lot I buy without even trying), 95% of all the crap out there I don't even pirate because it's just not worth the effort. Like I said, I've become quite efficient at spotting the shit games, it's not often I get surprised. DX:HR was probably the last one and I bought that.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 11:06 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | | If the firm sells poor quality and/or shit looking cloth, you won't buy it. But you also don't steal it from the shop, wear it for couple of days and be disappoint. |
But that's a completely failed analogy. That's exactly the difference between physical and digital property. I wouldn't buy the cloth and I wouldn't wear it. But, when it comes to software, I can download shit I would never buy and - contrary to popular opinion - no one looses a single $ because of it. Because, and let me stress this once more: I wouldn't buy it anyway. Those particular games I play only because I can get them for free. What's even funnier is the fact, that I often buy games I got to know only because I downloaded them in the first place, or because someone who downloaded them recommended them to me. Is piracy moral and good because of that? Of course it's not. But neither is it as destructive as people like you make it out to be. A good, overused excuse for poorly selling mediocrity - that's what it is.
If piracy is ever defeated (right before world hunger, would be my guess), then I'll just stop using that mediocrity, and I'll still only buy games I consider worhy of my money. Nothing much will change, really. I'll play less games overall, but since those aren't games I really care for anyway, it's not that big of a deal. The only real problem I'll encounter, will be determining wheter the game is good or not. Without the possibility of isodemo, I'll probably have to be much more carefull when choosing who/what to trust. Which, as fun as it may sound, will result in less games bought by me overall.
Also, this talk about capitalism is fun and all, but the way I see it, if it's fair be a dick one way, it's also fair the other way around. If buying revievers, false advertising and selling same stuff, slightly rebranded, over and over again is considered a normal practice, part of the market, then so is trying, and sometimes even somewhat enjoying (but not enough to pay requested price) stuff for free. I don't see you starting disscussions on those topics and defending consumer's rights, however.
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 11:10 Post subject: |
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| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51431
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 11:18 Post subject: |
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I started to buy more games ever since I started to have a steady income, simple as that.
Steam and some other online retailers played a major role on that, with daily/weekly price slashes, 4 pack deals, cheaper prices on some countries's online stores and steam holiday sales.
However, music, television and movies? 
I don't consume that much music so I guess that's not an issue, but only an utter moron would wait for the release, buy the necessary equipment (blu-ray reader, HDTV and all that other shit) in order to watch series and movies instead of just DL'ing the 720p/1080p rip.
Oh and I'm in no way "sticking it to the man".
It's easier this way and I don't give a fuck about doing it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 11:59 Post subject: |
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Why would an utter moron buy the necessary equipment to watch high resolution material? I don't get your point? I watch all my HD stuff through 1080p 50 inch TV. I like to sit on the couch, drink/eat while watching. It's a better experience in my opinion. So your point makes no sense.
Again, people here were using excuses "big industry won't lose a cent as i wouldn't buy anyway". But why do you download and _consume_ it, then? It's still considered copyright infringement.
Patents may not be ideal in their concept, but they provide incentives for R&D costs/development. If a company were to invent a technology while no patent laws exist, they most likely would keep the technology a secret (not bringing it in public domain) as it's free for exploitation for every other company. In pharmaceutical and processors industry the cost of commercialization is much higher than initial concept costs. So unless there weren't any way to prevent copying the industry would be much weaker and abstain from productization investments.
Also some individual can come up with a cool technological invention and thanks to patent laws could become a licensor, that is license the technology to others who are interested in it. Without patents it would be pointless for others to license it when they can exploit it.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51431
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:18 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | Why would an utter moron buy the necessary equipment to watch high resolution material? I don't get your point? I watch all my HD stuff through 1080p 50 inch TV. I like to sit on the couch, drink/eat while watching. It's a better experience in my opinion. So your point makes no sense.
Again, people here were using excuses "big industry won't lose a cent as i wouldn't buy anyway". But why do you download and _consume_ it, then? It's still considered copyright infringement.
Patents may not be ideal in their concept, but they provide incentives for R&D costs/development. If a company were to invent a technology while no patent laws exist, they most likely would keep the technology a secret (not bringing it in public domain) as it's free for exploitation for every other company. In pharmaceutical and processors industry the cost of commercialization is much higher than initial concept costs. So unless there weren't any way to prevent copying the industry would be much weaker and abstain from productization investments.
Also some individual can come up with a cool technological invention and thanks to patent laws could become a licensor, that is license the technology to others who are interested in it. Without patents it would be pointless for others to license it when they can exploit it. |
A pattern arises!
Do you watch content while getting head from your top model GF and on the breaks you get between freelance web designing on your iMac and driving your Ferrari?
But while you do have a point on the TV set, I still think that buying a blu ray reader and the disks make you moron since most HDTV's out there can read MKV without any trouble.
As for the 2nd paragraph I did mention that
| tonizito wrote: | Oh and I'm in no way "sticking it to the man".
It's easier this way and I don't give a fuck about doing it. |
so what makes you think that I'm worried about "copyright infringement"?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:23 Post subject: |
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So, basically, you call moron a person who buys movies? And the cool guy is the one who is leeching his .mkv 720/1080p material? Interesting. Street thieves and junkies would approve your comment.
As your first sentence i don't get it at all. Why would i drive a Ferrari? Are you suggesting only rich people use HD tv sets? Have you even looked how cheap 50 inch panels are these days?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:24 Post subject: |
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| evribadi wrote: | | Also some individual can come up with a cool technological invention and thanks to patent laws could become a licensor, that is license the technology to others who are interested in it. Without patents it would be pointless for others to license it when they can exploit it. |
Oh really?
Considering the very basic filing fee is already 380 USD, do you really think that's interesting to a web developer at all? You do realise that at least 50% of the "innovative" UI elements in MS' Metro and Apple's iOS are things that've been on the web for half a decade or more right? Where's their protection? I'm not saying they should get money for what they came up with, as most wouldn't even want it because they actually really DO make their shit public (unlike MS or Apple), but USPTO could at least pull the prior art card and not grant the fucking patents to these corporations.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:28 Post subject: |
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If you call it an excuse, prove the logic behind it wrong then. All I see is you repeating the same stuff, over and over again. And thanks for the illumination. I wouldn't have guessed what I do, and what I myself called piracy, is, indeed, copyright infringement (that's sarcasm by the way).
I download and "consume", because there's no way to to evaluate something by downloading alone (or perhaps you'd like to illuminate me in this regard too?). After the evaluation, I:
1. Consider the game good and worthy of my money (in which case the game gets bought isntantly)
2. Consider the game mediocre, overadvertised and not worth it's current pricetag (in which case the game doesn't get bought, but it may happen at a later time, when the price drops to a value closer to it's real worth)
3. Consider the game shit - kinda like 2., but way worse (in which case the game gets deleted instantly, and I usually regret whatever little amount of time it took me to get to know it)
It's really as simple as that and as long as there are enough games of second and third cathegories (so far, they are a majority, and a by a large margin too), I don't care in the slightest wheter it's against the law or so called morality - for the reasons I highlited in the last paragraph of my last post. Actually, it's the exact opposite: I feel very lucky I managed to elude being conned out of my money for a product that's either overpriced, or not worth a single penny.
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| Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:29 Post subject: |
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Werelds,
That's why you should file a patent notice for your invention. Ans yes, the fee is high, but that's where the rationality of patent filing comes in. You don't just file an ownership claim for every single thing you come up with. You have to see it large-scale. To see if it's profitable, and if others would want to license it.
Well, big software companies have from the beginning been under attack for stealing ideas. And not just software companies. Microsoft could've used a free/unlicensed design elements with their Metro, so legally they're on the right side. Or have anyone sued them for "stealing " Metro and using it?
Last edited by evribadi on Mon, 11th Jun 2012 12:33; edited 1 time in total
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it's totally their fault.
DXWarlock 
