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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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 Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 15:28 Post subject: |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 15:36 Post subject: |
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Why werelds? 
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 15:47 Post subject: |
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Because while it's technically a Great Wall unit (which is a good manufacturer in fact, one of the few that can really meat Seasonic's on its own level), it's also OCZ, who have a reputation for putting much cheaper components inside. The 650W unit in particular has got a bad hit/miss ratio; IIRC, [H] reviewed one and it failed on them during testing. That's bad.
That, and the fact that SiN is picking up 16GB of RAM and an H100, but is skimping on the most vital part of the PC 
Edit: yep.
From http://hardocp.com/article/2011/12/20/ocz_zt_series_650w_power_supply_review/9:
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As we saw starting off with the Build Quality, the OCZ ZT 650W is going to be a good but compromised unit today. Following along in that theme, the ZT 650W did well in our load testing for the tests it would complete. The unit had good regulation with the 12v dropping by 0.14v and the minor rails dropping by up to 0.06v. The efficiency of the unit was even very good as it ranged from 84.08% to 85.30% at 120v and 82.56% to 84.42% at 100v. Even the unit's 80Plus results were good as it ranged from 82.07% to 85.12% using 80Plus’s load testing parameters, thus hitting its 80Plus Bronze advertised value. All of those good things comes crashing to an end though when we point out that the unit was unable to complete the Torture Test or our full load tests at 45C, which is 20C higher than 80Plus' test parameters. That is kind of a big "but" to have to add to this unit’s performance. However, it is what it is and while this unit is supposed to be rated for 45C operation, neither sample we had would do so for us as the OTP seems to be set far too low.
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Too lazy to find Jonny's review of the 750W version, but IIRC he also noted that the unit barely meets the the 80+ Bronze specs even at 80+'s own (weak) standards, let alone more realistic standards; the temperature inside your case will never be "room temperature" (which is 23 degrees Celsius in 80+'s spec).
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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Aeon
Posts: 8700
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 17:59 Post subject: |
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XFX Pro 650w is also a good one. They are also made by Seasonic or they have something to do with it if I'm not mistaken.
Intel i7 6700K, RTX470 Super, Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 18:21 Post subject: |
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Make sure to buy two noctua fans for that H100.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 18:43 Post subject: |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Apr 2012 21:16 Post subject: |
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Z77 boards should be available now, get ASrock.
for cooling paste get arctic MX4
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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 01:17 Post subject: |
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I would get a better psu too!
fuck ...
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51417
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 01:53 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | I'm just one of the few that does give a damn about PSU's |
What do you mean one of the few? 
I thought it was a bit more common knowledge by now that you should always, ALWAYS invest on a rock solid PSU.
I mean, it's not like you only have pretty much your ENTIRE system (CPU + Mobo + RAM + GPU + ...ok, everything except the case  ) riding on it, right? 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 11:20 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:22; edited 1 time in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24642
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 11:54 Post subject: |
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The only difference between the i5 2500K and the i7 2600K is hyperthreading. 2600K has it, 2500K doesn't. And the only real use for HT today is encoding. You'll see very little improvement in games and everyday apps.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 12:57 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:24; edited 1 time in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 13:03 Post subject: |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 14:17 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | _SiN_ wrote: | But I encode movies from time to time, and I'm more of a "better to have it and not need it, and need it and not have it"-kind of guy  |
Of course, the money won't spend itself  |
See, this man gets it
About the PSU, since it's a hot topic now 
The store I buy from, only stock generally good items for enthusiasts, or generally PC-building people - they have few brands but just the good stuff - now obviously, there are products here and there that aren't good buys, here's an example. I wasn't aware that this PSU was that bad, but AT LEAST it's 80+ Bronze certified, SURELY there are worse PSUs to buy out there, even though that this is a poor example since it has a high failure rate, according to the info I got in this thread
Anyway, I'll get another PSU in either case.
| bringiton wrote: | | It was just directed at tonizito, who said that the case does not rely on the PSU. I just pointed out that with a faulty PSU, your case fans might fail which could have a bad effect |
ooh, doh, my bad
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 14:23 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:24; edited 1 time in total
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65084
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 14:40 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 14:50 Post subject: |
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| _SiN_ wrote: | | The store I buy from, only stock generally good items for enthusiasts, or generally PC-building people - they have few brands but just the good stuff - now obviously, there are products here and there that aren't good buys, here's an example. I wasn't aware that this PSU was that bad, but AT LEAST it's 80+ Bronze certified, SURELY there are worse PSUs to buy out there, even though that this is a poor example since it has a high failure rate, according to the info I got in this thread |
Unfortunately, there's a few problems with this logic
First of all, PSU brand means jackshit. Corsair have good units and bad units; what's worse is that even with a product series you can't rely on anything. Example using Corsair because they're so inconsistent and easy to use as an example:
- TX650: Seasonic (not sold anymore, was SS's original X platform)
- TX650C: CWT (not sold anymore)
- TX650V2: Seasonic
- TX650M: CWT
Last two are both still in production and being sold. This continues throughout the entire TX series. I'm not done yet though, things get better.
- HX450, 520, 620: All Seasonic, all discontinued.
- HX650: Seasonic, still sold.
- HX750, 850, 1050: CWT, still sold. (CWT has two fucking aweful platform and one that can match Seasonic mostly - this is the latter one, failure rates are slightly higher than SS though).
So PSU brand means absolutely jackshit.
Then there's the 80+ rating. It's a good indication, but far from flawless and most certainly not the sole criteria to value a PSU's worth by. 80+'s certification involves load testing at 20%, 50%, 100% load with specific target efficiency at each step. Now, the first problem is a bit of inconsistency; basic 80+ just means 80/80/80, whereas bronze already means 82/85/82 - suddenly the 50% load efficiency has to be higher. The big problem however is the testing conditions. Like I said, 80+ tests at "room temperature", which they defined as 23 degrees Celsius. That temperature is kept consistent throughout their load test, which is just complete horseshit, because when your PC is under any load, the temperature inside will be way above room temperature; in the summer, with a room temperature of 25 degrees, that can easily approach 40 degrees, even with good airflow.
Now why does that matter? Because the components inside perform worse the hotter they get. Meaning efficiency and reliability drop when the thing gets hotter - and quite drastically so, I might add. The big advantage to a Seasonic built unit is that Seasonic sets some standards for the OEMs, so by definition any "Seasonic Inside" unit will have a higher standard set for it. When OEMs take a manufacturers PSU, there are only some parts which the manufacturer supplies; a lot of the capacitors are in fact placed and chosen by the OEM, where as the actual power supply comes from the manufacturer. Great Wall build some great PSU's as well, but in this case for example OCZ has obviously opted to replace some of the capacitors which cheap pieces of shit which degrade rapidly under duress. Result? A unit that no longer meets the 80+ efficiency under load in a realistic environment (i.e. 23+ degrees) and even fails.
As an added bonus, higher quality PSU's that are actually built to withstand higher temperatures (like Seasonic's X-platform) are typically much quieter; in Seasonic's own units the fan doesn't even spin up until you hit like 50% load on it
I can't stress it enough, but whatever unit interests you: read reviews. Jonny Guru is the PSU king, [H] aren't bad either.
There, wall of text to scare you out of just looking at brand!
Edit @ garus: why's that a bad thing? :S
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tonizito
VIP Member
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 15:30 Post subject: |
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| bringiton wrote: | Also the case, or don't you use any fans except on the CPU?  Image all your case fans failing, not pretty  |
Case != case + fans.
| Werelds wrote: | | - TX650: Seasonic (not sold anymore, was SS's original X platform) |
~ 4 years now, still going strong and silent 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
Last edited by tonizito on Tue, 3rd Apr 2012 15:31; edited 1 time in total |
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_SiN_
Megatron
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