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-=Cartoon=-
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Location: South Pacific Ocean
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 Posted: Mon, 19th Mar 2012 20:34 Post subject: Your experience under communism |
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I found a few of the stories in the NK thread interesting/sureal
Did you grow up with it ??? what country ??? what was it like ??? etc etc etc
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 19th Mar 2012 21:08 Post subject: |
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I was very young adventurer when socialism was removed from Bulgaria, but then I took an arrow to the knee, and I still remember it was much better than the democracy later, where we wouldn't have power for several hours a day. Now these cleared eventually, but when I was small we used to go on vacations every year and live better under socialism than democracy. The change hit Bulgaria (and most of the shithole err I mean eastern Europe) quite bad. There were not enough people to man the factories, so there was lack of food, etc.
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 01:42 Post subject: |
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My parents grew up in communist controlled Poland back in the 80's (they left when they were 22). Always used to tell me stories about ration cards, waiting in massive lines for basic necessities such as salt, sugar, toilet paper, meat etc.
Ah, and the good ole "The Soviets would ship train cars full of supplies and food back to Russia while local stores were continuously out of stock". Heard that story dozens of times.
Also apparently had to attend celebrations/parades/marches. It wasn't mandatory per se, but if you were the only one to not go, you can bet you sure as fuck weren't getting that promotion at work.
In terms of school work, my mother always recounted how none of their text books ever mentioned anything about Katyn, or the massive slaughters carried out by Stalin/Lenin.
Basically, it penetrated every facet of society, and while good on paper, according to my parents it brought nothing but resentment and hatred towards their communist masters, all in secret of course.
That said, all this feedback is second hand, not from me, and older people have a tendency to embellish a bit, so take all of it with a grain of salt.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 03:33 Post subject: |
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Well for example you weren't allow to have Christmas(as in Dec). Everyone did it secretly, since Russian's version of Christmas is in the beginning of January.
Schools were quite easy, if you sucked at tests, teachers helped you to pass during the test, since for example if a student didn't pass, everyone blamed the teacher and it was quite possible that teacher would be sacked.
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 07:31 Post subject: |
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everyone had a job back then. now its unemployment FTW.
everything was built during that era. appartments, factories, highways, dams. now after 20 years of "democracy", we have nothing. and nothing was built. just stolen and sold.
on the other hand, there were bad things also aka lack of food/ratios and idk. back then, you had some money but nothing to buy. now food is everywhere but zero money.
overall, like everything in life it had its good and bad things.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ♪ Viva La Vida ♪ <<<<<< <<<<< <<<<<< <<<
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spankie
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 09:41 Post subject: |
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Well, looks to me that the transition in for example eastern germany, Russia, Poland went quite well. You go through a deep valley economy-wise just after the transition because you need a whole generation of corruption and inefficiency to go away. Once you open it, the people with power will try to sustain their position by abusing their connections, selling off state assets, handing out state companies etc. Just like it was in Russia. But eventually those people will die.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania all made a incredible transition since they went open and are the fastest growing countries in the EU. Estonia went through hellish unemployment in 2008-2010, but now they are growing so fast again, unemployment is down to normal levels, debt is very low. But they went from communism to free market and changed structural.
Bulgaria and hungaria changed their system in theory, but they didn't change their economy structurally and did not change the people that have the power.
Communism might work in theory, which I doubt anywayz, but in practice it will never ever ever work. It is just opening the door to lazyness, corruption, free riding, enrichment of an elite etc etc. People are people, people want to be loved, valued, awarded whatever you call it. If you work hard, you want to get more of the love than when you are a lazy fuck doing nothing. If you collectivize the reward or punishments, people get lazy.
Just take the student room example. You are with 10 people in the building and the central heating bill is collectivized. People always put their room at 25C because their cost is split in 10. If all people think that way, you will end up with a huge bill compared with a personalized bill.
In communism the same goes for production in the other way. You collectivize working incentives. But people always look for the cheapest way out, so they become lazy and hope others will do the job. Everybody does it, and eventually there is no productivity at all in your economy. Your economy stays low, no innovation, no luxury, no growth. You can try to fool people by handing out useless money or food tickets or whatever. But if there is no production, you can't use it. Money is actually useless in an economy, it just facilitates transactions. You need production to have an economy.
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garus
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 09:58 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 10:30 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:24; edited 1 time in total
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14362
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 10:52 Post subject: |
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| Acer wrote: | | Well I live in a kinda communistic country now, Sweden. |
What is communist about Sweden? With their Constitutional monarchy, and the central-right government in place, they are not even close to communism.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65092
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 14:58 Post subject: |
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My country has never been under real communism, though given the results I'm not 100% sure it's a good thing.
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:12 Post subject: |
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i was born in a communist country. got out when i turned 11. HUZZAH!
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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garus
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:28 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:34 Post subject: |
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i'm glad i left. at least i didn't play max payne for pew pew factor  
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Neon
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garus
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Posts: 34197
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:36 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:39 Post subject: |
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Looks like its pretty much the same in the Balkan countries, transition was fucking awful. People lost jobs, money, factories closed, small amount of people got insanely rich, they involved themselves in the government and stole even more. The current government is building fucking monuments and everything important was built during the communism.
What was wrong imo was the insane love for one man, Tito was god and still is to some people.
But the genuine impression is that people were happier and less worried.
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 16:44 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | WaldoJ wrote: | | i'm glad i left. at least i didn't play max payne for pew pew factor |
Irrelevant to the case, your honor!
Did you play it for the grim on Max's face, then?  |
| Code: |
grim (grm)
adj. grim·mer, grim·mest
1. Unrelenting; rigid.
2. Uninviting or unnerving in aspect; forbidding: "undoubtedly the grimmest part of him was his iron claw" (J.M. Barrie).
3. Ghastly; sinister: "He made a grim jest at the horrifying nature of his wound" (Reginald Pound). See Synonyms at ghastly.
4. Dismal; gloomy: a grim, rainy day.
5. Ferocious; savage: the grim advance of the pillaging army. |
you mean grin...
| Code: |
grin (grn)
v. grinned, grin·ning, grins
v.intr.
To smile broadly, often baring the teeth, as in amusement, glee, embarrassment, or other strong emotion.
v.tr.
To express with a grin: I grinned my approval.
n.
1. The act of grinning.
2. The facial expression produced by grinning. |
I played it for the orsom story that was revealed in the orsom trailers.
Honest truth... when it was revealed on e3 for like 2nd time... it had this awesome map that looked like a blast and it was red and there was a shootout on a bridge above a vat of something vile... but it never came with the game. It looks sooo john woo ish and cyf ish. 
Communism went away years before I moved out, but it still lingered on and then I moved and now i hear all you people dress all purdy and fancy and talk all fancy and shmancy... 
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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garus
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 17:04 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:22; edited 2 times in total
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WaldoJ
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Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 17:05 Post subject: |
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Pffft   
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 17:24 Post subject: |
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My parents were born in 50ies and they loved it. Mother is automation engineer, father - radio & electronics engineer. They say, back then people were much friendlier towards each other, life was calm and simple - like a pieces of jigsaw puzzle. State provided apartment, after studying the practice and job was waiting for you with no bullshit like "You haven't worked yet, you lack any working experience and therefore you don't get a job". Also you didn't have to sell yourself as a product during job interviews by telling why you're better than anyone else.
When I was born, parents were given an apartment in a newly build apartment complex.
My grandfather and grandmother were factory workers and as such were given early retirement. Grandfather was given a summer house and a car, grandmother - an apartment in a newly build apartment complex and as she was working at cement factory - an environment with risk for health, she was also given a village house with two big apple gardens, and enough land for potatoes, strawberries, chickens, etc.
Also grandfather and grandmother received all necessary medical aid, and yearly trips to sanatoriums and resorts and they were allowed to take their grandchildren with them.
And this how I managed to experience the good of that system a little bit too. I also traveled by train, flew on a plane and saw a black sea for the first time all was given by the state.
And from my personal experience, every summer roads in neighborhood were maintained and eventually rebuild, apartment complex was also maintained every year. Food was much better, especially vegetables and fruits, now strawberries, tomatoes and cucumbers all taste the same. Toys, boardgames were better they all were designed at first to stimulate learning - motor skills, mathematics, geography, memory. But this was a double edge sword and could be considered a bad thing as the creativity wasn't a priority, even in draw lessons the goal was to develop the motor skills.
With Gorbachev all this come to an end, folks were allowed to start selling and reselling stuff, money became the only important thing in a world, people became greedier ready to bite each other throats in order to get more, an era of businessman began. Workers, engineers, teachers, etc. were told that they lived a false life, their moral compass is wrong and they all are just a lowlife shits that need to be managed and era of "managers" began.
Prices went up, wages went down, people became all for themselves. In schools parents were forced to pay to teachers otherwise they gave bad marks to pupils diminishing their chances to get a budget place in a university or simply forcing them to retake the current grade again. Teachers who didn't want to participate in all this were forced to leave. Kids with poor parents were forced to work as cleaners for the school or at teacher's apartments and were ridiculed by other peers with wealth parents. Such acts damaged the next generation, that now knew the money is their god now.
During that times, mother managed to keep her job, father wasn't as lucky - his workplace started to pay most of the wages in product form - electronics components, which he was selling during weekends, eventually protection fees to bandits, militia(police) and market owners made it unprofitable. But he got lucky, did an electronics work for folks with privileged connection to the black market, and eventually started to work for them helping with adapting vhs players, computers, tvs to Soviet stuff.
Our family become the 1% of that times for a very short period, and I got to play with Sinclair, Atari and Amiga.
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Mar 2012 17:32 Post subject: |
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just some shit
- no food, people would stand in lines for all kinds of shit, rationed milk, bread, meat, etc
- no imported goods was sold, everything was made here, and it was horrible
- only party members had it good and had chocolate and crap like that, it was a good thing if you had relatives in the country side since they'd be a good source of chicken meat or pork, fish and other 'exotics' were scarce
- 2-3 hours of propaganda tv and that's mostly it
- cinemas still had new movies, star wars was playing
- people with VCRs were gods, so were those with sattelite dishes
- militia as they were called or securitate could confiscate anything just by sheer will
- every class, every job had spies that would rat on their friends and colleague if they were suspected of doing anti-communist shit, informants were everywhere
- wire taping was done regularly
- my grandmother got the usual death threat visit every year by the securitate since my grandad lived in west germany and came back once a year
- my dad made a shitload of cash selling things my grandad brought him, from canned soda like Sprite, Coke to cassette tapes and so on, he usually recorded him stuff that was playing on Top of the Pops back in the day
- power was cut every day to make the whole country more economical
- so was hot water
- on sundays only cars with odd numbers (license plate) could driven, or even numbers, can't remember
- 23 august parade for our glorious communist leader, everything was set up to be perfect when the boss was around, that included some ridiculous stuff. The Univeristy i finished last year had a huge propeller engine from some airplane on one of it's buildings and they never used it unless HE (Ceausescu) visited and that meant half the city didn't have power because of that fucking thing. Sometimes they moved it manually and idled the engine.
- teachers would beat the shit out of you if you didn't comply, it was standard practice
- sometimes gas though to find and some people improvised with tuica (palinka)
- sometimes you got oil instead of beer since it was in the same bottle and made in the same place, you had to be really carefull what you were buying
- abortions were illegal, if they found out, the doc and the woman would be seriously fucked, either they 'dissapeard', or jail time
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spankie
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Mar 2012 11:40 Post subject: |
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| Acer wrote: | Well I live in a kinda communistic country now, Sweden.
Its not bad, though I hate chicks with buzzcuts wearing a dress with army boots  |
You call sweden communist? You have statsbolaget to sell the booze, but that's only because you guys are historical fucking drunks in the winter because there is nothing to do then and it's too cold (at least that is what the vodka sale/consumption showed me ). And there is a good social net, but that doesn't make it communist.
You guys have one of the most productive economies in the world and highest living standard in the world. You can do whatever you want, free choice, vote for whoever you want etc. That's not communist.
The biggest problem people have with transition from communism to free market is that they are lazy fucks. Excuse the phrasing, i will clarify. You have an economy that is state-controlled. Not very productive, but everybody has a job. At the best, everybody can survive, everybody has housing, everybody has food. But that's about it.
Once you open the markets, you are totally not competitive, you can import everything cheap which trashes your own economy and in turn makes you run huge external deficits. Of course, if you want to have additional luxury, you have to work more. That's completely logical. If you want to consume more as a country, you have to produce more/be more productive to pay for it. Combine that with inefficiencies in the newly opened market, and you see your economy collapsing.
BUUUUUT, once you go through the crash, you rise like a phoenix and can have a booming economy. Of course people need to be willing to be more productive, work harder, and adopt the 'capitalistic system. To put it easy: If a country is completely lazy and only produces food for itself, that is ok. But if you want an ipad you need import, you need to export something that is as valuable as the ipad, which means you as a customer will need to produce at least 600$ in value to export. If you only farm for yourself, that won't work. So you need big companies that do the farming, so it becomes more efficient. That way, you produce the same amount of food and other people have spare time, so they can produce things to export. There is only 1 way to grow your economy: Specialization, specialization, specialization. Why do you think there are constantly new sectors formed in the economy with highly specialized functions!
There is of course the russian system where you just export gas and oil and still lay on your lazy ass. But other countries have become productive in other sectors and specialized. Estonia is exporting shitloads of IT equipment, which enables them to import shitloads of other luxury goods.
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BLaM!
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Posts: 13818
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Mar 2012 12:05 Post subject: |
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| ivan1real wrote: | Looks like its pretty much the same in the Balkan countries, transition was fucking awful. People lost jobs, money, factories closed, small amount of people got insanely rich, they involved themselves in the government and stole even more. The current government is building fucking monuments and everything important was built during the communism.
What was wrong imo was the insane love for one man, Tito was god and still is to some people.
But the genuine impression is that people were happier and less worried. |
pretty much this although we don't build monuments now. Some of those in Skopje are epic... |
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