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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65134
Location: Italy
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 Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 20:26 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 21:08 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 22:00 Post subject: |
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SOme titles gain by word of mouth and end up making more sales due to piracy.
I had never heard of Minecraft til I saw it posted on usenet back in March or so.
I ended up buying a copy and got 3 others to buy it.
So there are several sales that would have never happened if not forthe original piracy of that title.
Other than Youtube and a few forums, Minecraft has pretty much zero visibility anywhere and yet they have sold over 3 million copies by now.
And since I never used to frequent any gaming channels on Youtube I would have never even come across it if I hadnt been looking for it after seeing it on usenet.
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 23:02 Post subject: |
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if there was no piracy would they charge a fair price and do better games/ports?
who believes in that?
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34197
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 23:06 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:40; edited 1 time in total
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34197
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2011 23:08 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:40; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73381
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Oct 2011 20:33 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 18:58 Post subject: |
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/6343451/56-of-console-gamers-dont-pay-for-games-study
| Quote: | | According to Newzoo's findings, of the 82 million Americans who say they play console games, only about 36 million of them, or 44 percent, buy games at all. Instead, Newzoo found that games are more often than not shared between families or groups of friends. |
| Quote: | | For 25 percent of game buyers, at least half of their budgets go toward secondhand purchases, according to Newzoo. On average, US gamers spend about 23 percent of their gaming budget on used software. |
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
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I dont understand why piracy is always blamed on the PC consumer base? The only true PC only factor in piracy is that piracy happens by PC. Console games are pirated just as much and nowadays are pirated earlier and easier then PC games.
Take Skyrim, I believe theres a XBOX360 leak going around, how the fuck can you blame PC for that?
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 21:23 Post subject: |
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| Ragedoctor wrote: | I dont understand why piracy is always blamed on the PC consumer base? The only true PC only factor in piracy is that piracy happens by PC. Console games are pirated just as much and nowadays are pirated earlier and easier then PC games.
Take Skyrim, I believe theres a XBOX360 leak going around, how the fuck can you blame PC for that? |
You download and burn it on a computer!
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14445
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 21:23 Post subject: |
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| human_steel wrote: | http://www.gamespot.com/news/6343451/56-of-console-gamers-dont-pay-for-games-study
| Quote: | | According to Newzoo's findings, of the 82 million Americans who say they play console games, only about 36 million of them, or 44 percent, buy games at all. Instead, Newzoo found that games are more often than not shared between families or groups of friends. |
| Quote: | | For 25 percent of game buyers, at least half of their budgets go toward secondhand purchases, according to Newzoo. On average, US gamers spend about 23 percent of their gaming budget on used software. |
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I dont get why that is always raised as a problem. I bought the fecking license, why cant I borrow it to some friend or resell it FFS. The Industry can lick its balls.
| xxax wrote: | | Ragedoctor wrote: | I dont understand why piracy is always blamed on the PC consumer base? The only true PC only factor in piracy is that piracy happens by PC. Console games are pirated just as much and nowadays are pirated earlier and easier then PC games.
Take Skyrim, I believe theres a XBOX360 leak going around, how the fuck can you blame PC for that? |
You download and burn it on a computer! |
About time, computers became more like iPhones then.
Last edited by couleur on Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 21:26; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Nov 2011 21:25 Post subject: |
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The one major positive I see is exposure to games that may not otherwise be seen if having to purchase. When that exposure leads to a diamond in the rough, the one "pirating" the game may see fit to purchase to game to show the developer there are people out there enjoying their work and to please continue down that same path with future projects.
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2012 11:41 Post subject: |
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Didn't know where to post this, but here's a very good article about piracy, from Lar (Swen Vincke), the founder of Larian Studios:
http://www.lar.net/?p=99#more-99
| Quote: | | But that doesn’t mean I’m pro-DRM. You see, I wouldn’t be in this industry if it wouldn’t be for the abundance of copied games I played when I was a teenager. I built up most of my gameplay instincts playing those games, and being a slow learner, it took a lot of games, some of them being very bad |
It's one of those "what if"s right now... What if there was no piracy, would we still have Larian Studios and the great games they made?
| Quote: | | I happily paid for those games that I played over and over (some of them I bought multiple times because I lost the codes or the CD), but I always felt cheated when I paid for those games that were crap because I fell for the marketing. It’s an argument that you hear a lot from pirates - we’ll buy it if it’s good. And having been there, I actually follow that reasoning. |
I fucking love Larian in general, but Lar/Swen is such a brilliant guy. I like that compared to most developers, he doesn't keep it to himself if he has something to say, be it about piracy or publishers or whatever.
Read it all... seriously, it's a very good article! 
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2012 11:44 Post subject: |
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| Minacious wrote: | | The one major positive I see is exposure to games that may not otherwise be seen if having to purchase. When that exposure leads to a diamond in the rough, the one "pirating" the game may see fit to purchase to game to show the developer there are people out there enjoying their work and to please continue down that same path with future projects. |
such is why I do the game gifting. A lot of people here mean well and they rely on steam for their games, but god knows valve won't change the pricing for the Europeans. I'd rather see the people here buying their games they love instead of having to resort to only pirating due to higher costs. |
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Cyb3r
Posts: 615
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2012 13:16 Post subject: |
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idd spyke my gf living in the us currently get's the same game for me for about 2/3rd of the price i pay here :/
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2012 15:36 Post subject: |
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| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | No, they did not, at least Amnesia didn't. Read the developer's comments on sales. |
you sure about that statement? cause i'm pretty sure it's inaccurate, they set a pretty optimistic target of how many sales they wanted for them to add commentary to the game and hit that easily.
piracy isn't supposed to help anyone but the consumer, it's a way for consumers to force quality control from our end by forcibly demoing every game before evaluating it at any monetary cost.
in some cases though it does indeed help publicize a game that wouldn't have been able to be as noticeable otherwise, look at terraria for instance, Pbat's steam got hacked, pirates got pre-release non-public demo of the game, enjoyed it, now well over a million sales on steam.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 20:05 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:47; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24321
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 20:27 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | Found on reddit
| Quote: | Okay, so, gotta get this off my chest:
I am a game developer; I've worked in the past at Sony Bend Studios, and I currently work for a small developer known as Play Habit; in addition, I also do my own software and game development on the side (Play Habit knows about this and is happy for me.
I've got quite a few friends who are professional game developers, and I have some friends who are professional musicians. Piracy is a hot topic for both types of folks. But when I ask "What do you think about piracy?" to the two groups, I get distinctly different answers.
Most musicians I've talked to about this WANT you to pirate their music. They would MUCH, MUCH rather have someone listening to their music than not, because they understand that product familiarity is one of the primary marketing tools. Yes, they would rather people buy their music, as that's how they make money, but if it's between not hearing their music and hearing their music, they want you to hear it!
In my experience in the professional games industry, this is rarely the case. I've seen so many folks who decry pirates, and think that one of the highest priorities is making sure that folks that DIDN'T buy the game DON'T get to play. They believe that there's a direct and powerful correlation to a pirated unit and loss of a sale, and they believe that if you effectively deny/delay access to the game, those would-be pirates will buy it.
I've been in the games industry for quite a while now, and I kept abreast of game industry news far before I entered. From what I can tell, the reason that piracy became such a hot-button issue is because it was such an effective way for a developer to save face. Picture this scenario: you are in a board room, and one of the members asks the following question:
*So, why did GameX not sell according to our projections?*
As a developer, you have a few options for how to answer this. Let's say that GameX was a game that could've been great. The timeline and budget weren't planned out properly, or promises were made that were untenable, and there was no room for negotiating more time or money. The main design of the game had to be changed because one of the controlling board members watched his son play another game and he wanted more of that design present. Half the content in the game had to be cut to allow the remaining levels to get the attention they needed. A change in technical requirements on PlatformX cost another month of work; time that was intended to be used for bug fixing. In the last few months the lead programmer jumped ship because he found another company who would pay him more, and wasn't scrambling to complete this project Charlie Foxtrot. And the marketing budget was tied to a related movie release that never saw the light of day.
What do you do? You could pin the blame on board member who thought he was a designer, but this man pays your salary. You could blame the project organization/producer, but he was just doing the best he could with what was given to him. You could blame the platform, you could blame the programmer. You could blame the marketing (Or lack thereof).
But the night before this meeting, you were on PirateBay, downloading the latest episode of that hot new TV show your friend told you about, and you noticed that GameX is being torrented by 5000 people.
So you figure: "Hey, if I just say that it's because we got pirated, that hurts no one, and solves the problem, no fuss no muss! I can clearly see we've lost at LEAST 5000 sales from these figures."
And so this happens, for GameX, GameY, GameY X2, etc. Eventually, the first question in every board meeting is as follows:
*So, what are you guys doing to prevent piracy?*
This is how we end up with companies spending millions on anti-piracy measures that are both ineffective and potentially hazardous to end-users.
Indie devs go either way on this in my experience, though most of them do understand that the piracy problem is MUCH less of a problem than people make it out to be. At the very least, in the indie community, they understand that any DRM that has a chance to affect an end-user should be avoided at ALL COSTS.
End of rant I guess. |
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no secret there i guess Always easier to blame someone else.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 20:39 Post subject: |
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Im not sure any major studies on it. but my personal input:
There is a LOT of games I wouldn't have bought if I didn't pirate them first. and a few friends that wouldn't have bought it if I didn't tell them its worth it. I might get flack for this...but I dont mind the 'buy to play online pirated wont do it" type DRM. if a games good enough for me to want to play online with friends but cant because its pirated, then its worth buying for it.
Yes there is many games I did pirate and not buy because it wasn't worth it.
But there is only 2 outcomes of that. Either I buy it sight unseen, hate it. and never buy anything from them again (so legitimate purchase LOST them a repeat customer). or I don't buy it, don't feel burnt and they have a chance on a later game to have me buy from them on a different title.
And there is a few games I pirated, with no intention of EVER buying..because I knew it wasn't worth the price and wanted to see if maybe it wasn't as horrible as I assumed, but it was. It doesn't justify downloading it. but to say that's a lost sale is silly..It was never a sale option to start with.
Its like I wouldn't go out and BUY a 1980 Toyota celica for my son, but if someone gave me one for free I would take it. But there was no risk of losing a sale of a POS car because I had the option for a free one.
I mean the used car dealer down the road cant go "well there went a sale of a car I'm selling because he got one free"..no because I drove past the POS car 400 times, and didn't think it was worth the $500 you wanted for it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 20:46 Post subject: |
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The bit about the musicians wanting their music rather heard by as many people as possible, pirates or not is a thing that applies to video games as well. It should be the same with game developers / publishers. CD Projekt actually understands this, they said the same thing basically in one of the latest interviews I believe. They want as many people to play their game even if they pirate it because some of those pirates will keep pirating stuff without caring, but some of them will go "Hmm, I like that they're making great games and I like that they're not fucking over the customers with DRM and other nonsense like that. I will support them now." and that right there is a gained sale, not a lost one. That shit thinking needs to go away from everyone's mind because it's not fucking right.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 20:51 Post subject: |
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| DarkRohirrim wrote: | | The bit about the musicians wanting their music rather heard by as many people as possible, pirates or not is a thing that applies to video games as well. It should be the same with game developers / publishers. CD Projekt actually understands this, they said the same thing basically in one of the latest interviews I believe. They want as many people to play their game even if they pirate it because some of those pirates will keep pirating stuff without caring, but some of them will go "Hmm, I like that they're making great games and I like that they're not fucking over the customers with DRM and other nonsense like that. I will support them now." and that right there is a gained sale, not a lost one. That shit thinking needs to go away from everyone's mind because it's not fucking right. |
Exactly, its how they got 3 sales from me on Tribes.
I pirated the first one back when it was new, loved the SHIT out of it with shifter mod. tribes 2 came, I bought it. it sucked, tribes 3 (or whatever it was called) came, I bought it. it sucked..then the Tribes online 'aspen ski simulator' thing came..i bought IT, hoping it was back to what tribes was..didn't like it either.
So like music, one good pirated song can make you buy a whole next CD. one good pirated game got them 3 sales of crappy games from me
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 20th Nov 2013 21:25 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 21st Nov 2013 04:02 Post subject: |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 21st Nov 2013 04:07 Post subject: |
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You missed the 80's version of it then...lol
 Spoiler: | |
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Stige
Posts: 3556
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu, 21st Nov 2013 04:07 Post subject: |
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