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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24642
Location: Your Mom
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 Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 10:01 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | does BF3 require you to install origin to use, or does this only effect those who buy it THROUGH origin.
because if origin is a must... they may have just lost a sale... |
| Quote: | | It’s already known that Origin will be required to play Battlefield 3 on the PC, and at first, it seemed like just another digital download service users would have to put up with. However, some might find it disturbing that, according to the Origin End User License Agreement (that thing no one ever reads), EA collects information about your computer, the software installed on it, its hardware, not only to “improve the service”, but they can also pass on this data to third parties |
http://bf3blog.com/tag/origin/
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 10:08 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | chiv wrote: | does BF3 require you to install origin to use, or does this only effect those who buy it THROUGH origin.
because if origin is a must... they may have just lost a sale... |
| Quote: | | It’s already known that Origin will be required to play Battlefield 3 on the PC, and at first, it seemed like just another digital download service users would have to put up with. However, some might find it disturbing that, according to the Origin End User License Agreement (that thing no one ever reads), EA collects information about your computer, the software installed on it, its hardware, not only to “improve the service”, but they can also pass on this data to third parties |
http://bf3blog.com/tag/origin/ |
I'm gonna start installing gayvilla 3d over and over and over on my computer...  |
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 10:14 Post subject: |
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whelp i guess ill cross this one off the purchase list... all this does is reinforce my belief that whenever you actually decide to buy a game, you get fucked over in one way or another.. and while collecting SOME data is nothing new, this free-range concept of having the 'right' to ANY bit of data they want to grab about you, your system and what you do on it, is just a huge step too far. no thanks EA... and it certainly doesnt help that you're an untrustworthy company that cant be trusted to even be remotely fair in what data you collect.... i dont want you sorting through my emails and shit, or keeping a collection of the PERFECTLY PG-RATED SITES I GO TO...
damn and i was really looking forward to this game as well 
back to pirating single player games i go.
ill probably have to pirate this game just on principle, even though i wont really be able to do fuck-all with it...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 10:26 Post subject: |
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I was looking forward to BF3. Now, I'm on the fence. And the thing is I have bought 3 or 4 games through EA download manager, so If I decide to boycot origin I will loose access to those games :/
One salvation though. Red orchestra 2. One great looking military shooter this year at least.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51419
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 10:58 Post subject: |
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BFBC2 is enough for me and it seems that it will be that way for quite some time. It was nice playing with the other humpers, but now everybody will move to BF3 and... 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 11:48 Post subject: |
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Well, lately everyone seems to have disappeared 
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73206
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 12:26 Post subject: |
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I am willing to become a professional BFBC2 player, ready to play on demand, if you pay the salary I get from my current job. 
no more
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65084
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 13:18 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | BFBC2 is enough for me and it seems that it will be that way for quite some time. It was nice playing with the other humpers, but now everybody will move to BF3 and... |
If my PC won't be able to run BF3, you won't be alone! |
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 14:09 Post subject: |
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be interesting to see if EA will give enough of a shit to change their policy on this. i mean if they want to collect information on anything RELATING to how i use origin (and its games) and collect hardware specs, im ok with that.
but just saying 'if you install this, you agree to EA having free access to collecting information on anything and everything it wants on your pc', just isnt acceptable at all, and it IS a determining factor in if ill buy BF3.
then again, if they did release something saying they WERE reversing that policy, i probably wouldnt believe them anyway...
ugh... EA... why did you have to pull such a massive sequence of dick-moves... i was really excited about buying bf3...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 14:52 Post subject: |
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I agree, what the fuck. I mean they have this new origin that they want to use to cut Steam out. They loose sales there because some people simple only want Steam. I can still understand EA. Then they go all greedy and implement this crap as well ending up in even more lost sales. If they were a tiny bit smart they wouldn't have done this simultanously. I feel what's gained by the collected information does not add up to the profit lost by this dick move.
Are there any orgnaized "protests" going on? People can laugh at that as much as they want but it has succeeded before.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 14:58 Post subject: |
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This is great, EA is (probably) getting payed 2 times!
1. The gamer buys the game (and accepts every agreement)
2. EA can sell the collected data to a third party
So, these days games are like:
MINUS:
Stripped down gameplay (no commander mode in BF3,...)
Poor console ports
Bugged games at release
No Lan
No mod tools/map editor
extra maps = payable DLC
For some games you have to be connected with the internet permanently (even for single player)
To install the game you have to install 1 or more services
Via those services they are allowed to collect the data you want (Even if they change the policy, I don't believe they leave this untouched if the service is capable of collecting this data)
PLUS:
Facebook integration
Consider if it's worth to buy those hyped games today....
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:01 Post subject: |
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another interesting thing i just thought of...
this is fucking GOLD for activision... i mean for all the shit EA has been throwing activisions way, if they play this right, and start spreading the word that 'hey... atleast activision wont steal your emails, tell other companies about what you're buying, how much youve been spending and at what online stores OR tell your mom about the porn youve been looking at...', they could really get one back on EA.. and it would richly be deserved.
EA -IS- the lesser evil here, but i really hope activision take them to task on this.
go onnn activision... do it... DO ITTTTTT. fuck em up teh butt!
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:14 Post subject: |
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Just uninstalled Origin, and my copy of NFS: Hot Pursuit works fine without it. It all comes down to how Origin integrates with BF3. If it's like Steamworks (that is, you need Origin running to play the game) then they have certainly lost a sale with me. If, however, it's just verifying/authenticating the .exe once, and then BF3 can be run without Origin in the background, then I'm fine with installing/uninstalling Origin. Given I'll be able to pick up A BF3 key for about £15, it's not too much hassle for what looks like a very good game.
Their attempt at having a Steam competitor does appear to have died before it got off the ground, though.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:22 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: |
Their attempt at having a Steam competitor does appear to have died before it got off the ground, though. |
Is there some proof that other services like Steam will not collect hardware/software data?
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:25 Post subject: |
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no, but from what ive read, steam lets you opt out of some kinds of data collection, but otherwise focuses on hardware and steam/steam game related data.
i dont have a problem with that.
but origin wants to be able to legally collect absolutely everything on my pc, and sell it to other companies.
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:33 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:49; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:37 Post subject: |
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| Vulture wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: |
Their attempt at having a Steam competitor does appear to have died before it got off the ground, though. |
Is there some proof that other services like Steam will not collect hardware/software data? |
Depends upon whether you trust what they say here:
http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
"Except in the cases described below, Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance"
"Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy"
"If an associate of Valve is collecting such personally identifiable information within one of our products or online sites, Valve will make users aware of this at the time the information is gathered. For example, product registration data for Half-Life is collected by Sierra Entertainment"
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:39 Post subject: |
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actually, yes now that i re-read it, i think ive probably been a bit hasty... not unwarranted, but id just want clarification from EA, really, because its foolish to automatically think that things ARENT as bad as you think they are, when EA is involved...
i just dont like the idea that its all so vague on stuff like 'related information', and application usage... i mean how far does this go? will they know i use firefox, or will they WANT to go deeper and find out what sites i go to, and what shops i buy from? im just note comfortable with their terms suggesting that im allowing them free-range on my computer to harvest information on everything i do - NOT in a paranoid way, but because i just think they have the right to invade my privacy beyond things that immediately concern the running of origin and their games, THAT is where my concern lies.
its NOT as bad as its being made out, but it definately IS something to be concerned about.
will it stop me playing bf3? uhh i dunno. i wont say NO, but i WOULD like to hear EA respond to this before i make a final decision..
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 15:55 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | ...its NOT as bad as its being made out, but it definately IS something to be concerned about.
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It's vague, indeed, like all the policies.
They can use the collected data to 'provide a service', vague enough?
The provided service can be:
- Creating charts (how many players are using Nvidia cards vs AMD/ATI cards etc...).
- What type of browser are they using to launch BF3? This data is maybe not so relevant for them, but maybe for another company. So they 'provide the service' for the third party.
- Maybe they can 'provide a service' to the gamer if the data can be used to create a patch for a known problem.
- Etc...
IMO they are mainly collecting and using hardware (gfx card, motherboard, cpu) and software (browser,...) data. But who knows what they are collecting and using.
This reminds me: Some years ago there was a chip in the Intel CPU's that could collect a lot of data, but it was stopped because a lot of protest?
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 17:53 Post subject: |
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they cant do that in Europe, its illegal, no matter if you sign EULA saying so.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 19:03 Post subject: |
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EA updated EULA for Origin.
ORIGIN END USER LICENCE AGREEMENT
| Quote: |
2.Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA’s legal rights.
In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally
identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.
As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as
improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise
enhancing your user experience.
This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy
shall control. |
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 19:22 Post subject: |
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haha!
a few new words, but nothing is changed - some things are even worse
its still incredibly vague by stating application usage, software and software usage, and then stating information is used for improving blah blah blah "and otherwise enhancing your user experience'. awesome. that pretty much covers any reason they want to make up, as long as the explanation ends with 'and makes your experience better'
and ok, fine, so the paranoid in me as now come to the party... "does not share information that personally identifies you" blah blah blah 'or to enforce EA's legal rights."
combined with mass application data collection, for both installed AND stuff that has been installed in the past? captain paranoia is DISPLEASED WITH THIS!!
as long as you have origin installed, im sure it'll be sniffing to make sure you arent running any EA games without the disc in the drive, old OR new...
so yeah, new EULA really hasnt changed shit. theyve just used prettier words to make it look like they care that we care about our privacy.
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 19:35 Post subject: |
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but havent they just replaced it with 'agents acting on our behalf'? that still indicates information is going to companies outside of EA..
either way, to me my main concerns are that EA wants free-run to collect every bit of data on my pc, regardless of if it is or is not related to origin, EA games, or even gaming, to use (ALMOST) however they want.
i dont think any other program wants such complete rights of access to so much private information, without any right to opt out.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 19:45 Post subject: |
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Given your views about this topic I really hope you don't use Steam.
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 19:59 Post subject: |
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just because i use steam, doesnt mean i want more of this crap on my pc. and besides, steams privacy policy doesnt sound nearly as invasive as EA's to me.. not that i trust valve or anything...
i think it just comes down to having long since accepted steam. im not quite ready for another even bigger entity wanting a free run of my system and private information...
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 20:17 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | just because i use steam, doesnt mean i want more of this crap on my pc. and besides, steams privacy policy doesnt sound nearly as invasive as EA's to me.. not that i trust valve or anything...
i think it just comes down to having long since accepted steam. im not quite ready for another even bigger entity wanting a free run of my system and private information... |
Oh, Valve's policy sounds even more invasive as they're bolder and more explicit about it:
http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
But in the end, both Steam and EA are doing the same shit with your info no matter the very subtle differences between their EULAs.
That's ok if you don't want to share your information with a new digital provider, that's a whole different kind of music. It just needs to be clarified that EA's Origin isn't doing anything different in terms of privacy as opposed to what its competitors have already been doing.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2011 20:35 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | chiv wrote: | just because i use steam, doesnt mean i want more of this crap on my pc. and besides, steams privacy policy doesnt sound nearly as invasive as EA's to me.. not that i trust valve or anything...
i think it just comes down to having long since accepted steam. im not quite ready for another even bigger entity wanting a free run of my system and private information... |
Oh, Valve's policy sounds even more invasive as they're bolder and more explicit about it:
http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
But in the end, both Steam and EA are doing the same shit with your info no matter the very subtle differences between their EULAs.
That's ok if you don't want to share your information with a new digital provider, that's a whole different kind of music. It just needs to be clarified that EA's Origin isn't doing anything different in terms of privacy as opposed to what its competitors have already been doing. |
Valve's policy is fine as within it, it states this:
"Choice/Opt-out
Valve gives users the option of discontinuing receipt of promotional email communications from Valve. Instructions for discontinuing receipt of promotional email communications from Valve will be provided in such subsequent email communications to users."
Origin does not give you that option. I think you will find that this is the main gripe people have with Origin's EULA and ToS.
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