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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:01 Post subject: |
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| iconized wrote: | "collective sovereign authority": Does not exist. It is either collective or sovereign. But a case:
A certain tribe lives by your idea. One day 15 years earlier a male baby gets born, grown up he appears to be extremely strong, stupid and dangerous. On occasion he kills off other tribe's people. What do you do? |
Well, State sovereignty is collective at it's core, since it relies on a majority of individuals to accept and believe in it.
I'm assuming you imply I'm also a member of that hypothetical tribe, what would I do?
Depending on the specific nature of his murderers, I would trial him in a public court as to clear any doubt that he was the initiator of force in the murders and then judge him accordingly.
One thing is certain though, I could not bring the victims back to life... If you understand what I mean by this.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73199
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:03 Post subject: |
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Just report people, it will all go away soon. 
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14353
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:11 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: |
Depending on the specific nature of his murderers, I would trial him in a public court as to clear any doubt that he was the initiator of force in the murders and then judge him accordingly.
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To facepalm or not to facepalm?
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:17 Post subject: |
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| couleur wrote: | | iconized wrote: | | He gave his idea of anarchy 3 posts above yours. |
He says: " it is the state of nature that is ever present in society when individuals interact freely and without imaginary hierarchic relationships."
I do not believe such a state has ever existed and certainliy not "ever present". For me it is a mere postualte without any worth. A rational concept devoid of reality.
But if he could give a more explicit definition of this "state of nature", at least I would be able to tell where he is coming from.
He doesnt ever give information about the "practical" side of his theory. As such, the "idea" is empty. |
A state like that might exists when everyone is on LSD I guess, but will not last longer than some hours. I was trying to give Ronhrin an example why his ideas will never work in whatever group of organisation.
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:23 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | | iconized wrote: | "collective sovereign authority": Does not exist. It is either collective or sovereign. But a case:
A certain tribe lives by your idea. One day 15 years earlier a male baby gets born, grown up he appears to be extremely strong, stupid and dangerous. On occasion he kills off other tribe's people. What do you do? |
Well, State sovereignty is collective at it's core, since it relies on a majority of individuals to accept and believe in it.
I'm assuming you imply I'm also a member of that hypothetical tribe, what would I do?
Depending on the specific nature of his murderers, I would trial him in a public court as to clear any doubt that he was the initiator of force in the murders and then judge him accordingly.
One thing is certain though, I could not bring the victims back to life... If you understand what I mean by this. |
This is nonsense a sovereign is one person who rules in a limited area. Anyway if the collective would give you the power to prosecute him, you at that point claim authority over that person.
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 18:30 Post subject: |
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| iconized wrote: | | couleur wrote: | | iconized wrote: | | He gave his idea of anarchy 3 posts above yours. |
He says: " it is the state of nature that is ever present in society when individuals interact freely and without imaginary hierarchic relationships."
I do not believe such a state has ever existed and certainliy not "ever present". For me it is a mere postualte without any worth. A rational concept devoid of reality.
But if he could give a more explicit definition of this "state of nature", at least I would be able to tell where he is coming from.
He doesnt ever give information about the "practical" side of his theory. As such, the "idea" is empty. |
A state like that might exists when everyone is on LSD I guess, but will not last longer than some hours. I was trying to give Ronhrin an example why his ideas will never work in whatever group of organisation. |
My ideas are an example, they are not a belief of what society ought to be, and that is the point right there, the State is no more of an idea as my previous example is.
I'm not advocating an absolute theory of what humanity should be as a whole, what I'm discussing here is that there is no logical reason for we to accept the State other than by blind believe itself, because it is a human construct, an idea, it is not a fundamental of nature and the very thought of treating it as such is as ridiculous as religion itself.
All that is within our power and will of choice cannot be defined as an ought to be absolute, the very aspect that we can choose to accept or reject the State makes it flawed in it's very nature.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 19:10 Post subject: |
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So your anarchistic ideas should not be seen as how a society ought to be, after all we can accept them and reject them and that makes them flawed?
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 19:14 Post subject: |
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I love turtles!
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |

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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 19:43 Post subject: |
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Ronhrin has had multiple chances, he was even offered to defend his views in his own thread. Which he did not have the time for.
He was warned by sYn what the consequences would be should he continue on this particular path.
Yet he was at it again.
Now he's been permanently banned for the time being.
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 19:58 Post subject: |
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In this case I invited him to keep on discussing, dunno if it is fair.
Last edited by TSR69 on Fri, 15th Jul 2011 20:33; edited 1 time in total
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 20:17 Post subject: |
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| human_steel wrote: | | Epsilon wrote: | | Now he's been permanently banned for the time being. |
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The problem here is that he previously warned what the consequence would be if he pushed on. He was invited to defend his views and told to keep it all in his anarchy thread.
We will be discussing this situation in the moderator section and what the action and length of the ban should be. |
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 20:24 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:54; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:06 Post subject: |
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Fook this I'm off to knock one off.
Ryzen 5 3600 cpu@3.60 Mhz.
hyper x 32 gb ddr 4 memory.
Msi Carbon gaming pro ac motherboard.
Evga 600 psu.
Msi Armour rx 8 gb 5700 Graphic card.
Ps4 Standard 500gb.
Lg 4k 42 inch tv.
Oculus Quest 2.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:14 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | @Epsilon, for the last time, I don't have any views, for someone who I considered as an intelligent person, you certainly have some difficulty at comprehending the meaning and definition of language.
The end of your post is prove of it, you certainly understand the meaning of permanently...
I will not change myself, I am not promoting any views as you so frequently referred it.
What I've always said and you never understood is that ALL views and belief systems are meaningless and logically invalid, and none of them deserve to be respected.
I will never respect any belief system or remain idle while it's being discussed next to me.
I don't need to prove what I'm stating here since many other critics of my person have agreed upon the fact that the State is nothing more than a meta construct based strictly on belief.
So again, the burden of proof lies with you, not me, as it's you the one supporting and imposing a belief system down my throat, I'm merely actively rejecting it.
As arrogant, irritant, self entitled as I might be, I am correct in this regard, and as said before many critics of mine have already understood the veracity of this particular statement.
In short I tell you this, I will never respect any belief system, not tomorrow, not in another 10 years, not ever.
I don't hold any grudge against you or anyone in the hump though, if you don't want me as a member there, fine, I won't bother to create any other account also, have a good life.
@iNatan: I like you, but your reporting here was completely uncalled for and pointless, at this point I view you as the mean little devil sitting on Epsilon's shoulders and speaking at his hears.
Goodbye. |
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:16 Post subject: |
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quick what's the definition of a hypocrite.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:20 Post subject: |
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I do not understand why people spend this much time, energy and passion debating the imaginary. Even when you argue against religion you are wasting time over complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73199
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:31 Post subject: |
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@Ronhrin's ghost
Oh please, as if I requested a perm ban  All I wanted was this thread to get deleted (which wasn't) and you to take 2 days. I have never asked for you getting perm banned. Like you don't know me. Pathetic.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24643
Location: Your Mom
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:33 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | I do not understand why people spend this much time, energy and passion debating the imaginary. Even when you argue against religion you are wasting time over complete and utter nonsense. |
Because people cannot understand how so many are deluded and crazy while they're not. So they want to beat them over the head with a baseball bat. It's cool and all, if you're into acting like a psycho. But, people have their own right to do what they want with their lives. Regardless whether or not you abolish religion now, it will serve no real purpose to mankind while you still exist. After that if anything does happen, you will not know, you will not be held responsible. We cannot change the outcome of life and the outcome of humanity. The only thing we can do is accept that everyone is different.
I find it to be a terrifying thing to turn everyone into one singular idea. I support religion as much as I support atheists and agnostic. What I do not support are people who want to force their opinion on things onto others believing that they themselves are smarter than the ones they want to 'recruit'.
Cause in the end. What matters is whether or not, when the time comes, you can answer the meaning of life question with a smile on your face.
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:37 Post subject: |
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:50 Post subject: |
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other perm bans have been overturned as well.
Can't we just call it a really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really long ban?
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:51 Post subject: |
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Well, I am nothing if not a social constructivist. I believe that if we do not subscribe to one set of parameters, we subscribe to another. All of us accept certain parameters more or less on 'faith'. Even in mathematics, anarchism or baseball. There are always factors around us which we cannot explain, that we... be it through lack of understanding or fear of consequence ascribe to something that is out of our hands (imaginary if you will).
I honestly think that most people, even the non-religious want there to be 'something' because of how overwhelming the responsibility of ones actions are. Some create elaborate systems around something to rationalize irrational behaviour, to in some sense "break free" out of imaginary prisons.
Like alcohol for instance, some say they become braver when they drink it. Yet empirically alcohol (or many other drugs for that matter) results in completely different behaviour from person to person. Some people "become" cheerful, happy, others cheating, lying bastards. All use "alcohol" as their reason for doing so. But the bottom line is that all of them want a way out of the responsibility for action, or at the very least a system which forgives them ("Oh, I was drunk... so that's why I did it").
This is also why anarchism in its essence is such a contradiction. Organized disorganization? A system without a system? Bottom line is that there is a system that grants the participants with a way out of responsibility. "I am willing and able to do as I please, because I believe in this system - and there are no morals because that is what I believe". We build entire fortresses of make-believe and construct the most elaborate arguments around them to fortify ourselves in our attempts to deny our responsibility for our actions and our fear of not being in control.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 22:55 Post subject: |
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We've devolved and it's not because of religion.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 23:05 Post subject: |
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Its no doubt harder to break free from religion if you're born in a country where the majority are religious, and is where its socially unacceptable to be an aithist.
I bet lots of people question their fath even in Saudi Arabia, but they know what the consequenses are. And even in less extrimist countries in the middle east they know they will "lose" their family and maybe friends too. And its just not worth it.
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 23:08 Post subject: |
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But in complete and honest truth. Is being religion and i don't mean the kind that will slap you over the head when you say oh my god, but the kind of religion where you believe in god, but that's it. You don't need to follow the bible word for word. go to church every sunday, but only go on those special days like easter, christmas, april first, etc etc. Is it bad? If you're a regular, common guy, who acts like a 'stereotypical, perfect, good to everyone atheist, is it bad if you're religious?
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 23:10 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | | We've devolved and it's not because of religion. |
Have "we"?
I believe once "we" are more aware of how our 'reality' is filtered by our past experiences and how we ourselves create it, how all of our perceived notions of fact relies upon contractual agreements and obligations, "we" can start filtering through essential bullshit and create a system which maximizes the development (evolution if you prefer) of our species and our science.
For all its naïvety, there is something to be said for Darwinism, social or not. The struggle for recognition, the striving toward bettering ourselves. It is just unfortunate how mankind keeps ending up on tangents and paths toward stupidity and ignorance. The whole dark age of our past limited our progress immensely, and it seems we are upon the brink of another. Fighting over quasi-politics and belief. A big bowl of vanity and misconception, struggle for money and cocks.
I think it has its place, most assuredly. But too much time is spent on getting distracted by pretty neon lights and impulse. Fuck man, I'd love it if we could fly through the universe in a spaceship!
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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