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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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 Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 17:49 Post subject: New SSD :) |
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About to throw in 2 x 64gb crucial M4 drives in raid 0.
Anybody got experience of this. i suspect it's going to be a headache.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 17:58 Post subject: |
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no trim when using raid ?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 18:00 Post subject: |
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Why RAID? You do realise you won't have TRIM?
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 18:00 Post subject: |
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Yeh, no trim support.
well. i have 1x 64gb m4. it's either add a second or sell it on fleabay and bag a 128gb model.
I'm not entirely settled on the raid idea. but i feel compelled to play with it.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 18:09 Post subject: |
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You have the M4 drives Ankh?
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 18:16 Post subject: |
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No, they don't.
What they have is a driver that allows you to use TRIM on a drive that is connected to one of their controllers in RAID mode - NOT on drives that are actually in RAID. That driver has been out for more than a year now, and there's still absolutely no RAIDx+TRIM support; maybe a third party RAID controller company will do it at some point, but unless I missed something, Intel still don't support it (plenty of threads on the subject on the usual boards).
Edit: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/18653
| Quote: | | Translation: if your Intel storage controller is set to RAID mode, you'll now be able to benefit from your solid-state drive's TRIM functionality when running it alongside a RAID array comprised of mechanical drives. TRIM isn't supported for SSDs participating in a RAID array, however. Intel may add that feature in the future, but it hasn't committed to doing so. |
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 18:37 Post subject: |
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There is no way 
That's why you barely see anyone actually doing it; if you use your system a lot, it's going to slow down quite rapidly.
Why are you so set on RAID 0 though? Aside from the performance benefit for sequential read (which, like I said, is utterly pointless) it does more harm than good. Should one of the two drives fail for whatever reason, you're fucked. If it's purely for the idea of having a bigger OS drive, I suggest that you look at separating it instead. A lot of software doesn't need to be on your OS drive; installing Steam to a secondary drive for example is quite handy, since you won't have to redownload anything in case of a format.
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 19:06 Post subject: |
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Congratulations on getting married 
I do understand, but this is one of those techs that just isn't worth it. A lot of problems, a lot of risks and little benefit. I considered it myself (got 2 Vertex 2's), but I'm just using them separate. The benefit I got from using one as my OS drive alone made me happy enough already 
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jun 2011 20:04 Post subject: |
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Look into dynamic disks. This is Windows' software implementation of RAID.
And to make Windows boot from a dynamic volume,
| Quote: | Hi all,
I recently had this same issue. What happened was that I needed to upgrade my OS to 7 Ultimate x64, so I did a fresh install after backing up my data. I needed 4 Partitions but due to the compulsory system-reserved 100Mb-partition, I ended up having 5 partitions. So the only option was to convert to Dynamic Disk format since Basic Disk format does not allow more than 4 partitions on a disk.
I did this conversion to Dynamic Disk and restarted Windows 7 Ultimate x64. OOOpppsss!!! The OS boot got stuck where everyone else's got stuck. Then I did a quick re-install of Windows on the same partition where I have Windows running, and voila! It was back and up!
I think the best way to go about this business is;
Step 1: Backup Ur data
Step 2: Take Ur hard-disk to another PC running a Compatible OS
Step 3: Convert the disk to Dynamic, format and partition it as you desire
Step 4: Bring it back to Ur PC
Step 5: Install Windows
Alternatively, in Step 2, you can choose to do the work on Ur PC, but it will take Installing the OS on the disk, converting and partitioning it and then re-installing the OS.
Ultimately, I think that the issue is that Windows 7 does not have the ability to read the boot record once the conversion takes place. So you will have to install on the disk after it has been converted to a Dynamic Disk format. |
Trim support guaranteed.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sun, 19th Jun 2011 18:47 Post subject: |
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Stuff i just read tells me that wont give me raid 0 + trim.
Seems the speed loss on these drives without trim is fairly marginal so raid it is.
Will be keeping a fairly clean drive and migrate the user/program data folders over to a 1tb f3 drive.
Fun times.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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garus
VIP Member
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| Posted: Sun, 19th Jun 2011 18:51 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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Slizza
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24640
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sun, 19th Jun 2011 19:11 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | Stuff i just read tells me that wont give me raid 0 + trim.
Seems the speed loss on these drives without trim is fairly marginal so raid it is.
Will be keeping a fairly clean drive and migrate the user/program data folders over to a 1tb f3 drive.
Fun times. |
So... what are you going to use the drives for if you move user/program data folders away?
Btw, if you're going for RAID 0, I sure hope you have a system that can handle ~1GB/s transfer rates.
And in the end, I doubt you'll actually notice much of a real-life difference between 500MB/s and 1GB/s since there are so many other things that become bottlenecks.
I have a simple Vertex 2E-drive (~280MB/s) and what takes time during boot is the POST-process.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 19th Jun 2011 20:22 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | Stuff i just read tells me that wont give me raid 0 + trim.
Seems the speed loss on these drives without trim is fairly marginal so raid it is.
Will be keeping a fairly clean drive and migrate the user/program data folders over to a 1tb f3 drive.
Fun times. |
Well without TRIM make sure you keep 30% of that space free at the very least. And with free, I mean unpartitioned, unformatted. Because that is what TRIM does - it keeps as much free space as possible, thus allowing the controller to operate at full speed.
But it seems you're dead set on getting RAID 0, so have fun
@ Frant: my POST takes about as long as it takes to get from boot loader into Windows >_<
And to clarify for Slizza: RAID-0 doesn't speed up boot process; boot = tens of thousands of smallass files, sequential read does fuckall for that |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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garus
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| Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011 18:43 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011 19:26 Post subject: |
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can anyone explain what TRIM is simply?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011 19:32 Post subject: |
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Heavily simplified: an SSD slows down as more of its blocks are "occupied" (have data in them). TRIM makes sure that when you delete a file for example, it really clears that block rather than just removing the file entry from the file table.
Also the reason why you should always leave 10% of an SSD unpartitioned.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011 19:33 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011 20:03 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | Wasn't told anything i didn't already know.
What i asked is if anybody had experience with raid 0 ssd.
drives cope better without trim now than previous generations with there own garbage collection systems. but not as good as with trim. |
And they wear your number of cycles down much faster, because they cause a very high write amplification.
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Frant
King's Bounty
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