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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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 Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 21:58 Post subject: John Carmack: Consoles are holding PC Game development back |
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Sourced from RPS
| Quote: | “When we started on the game six years ago, I looked at the consoles and said ‘These are as good as the PC’, and our development strategy was to develop live on all the platforms. And now we’re looking at PCs that have ten times the horsepower of the consoles. I’m making a large change in my direction just saying ‘We should be building things efficiently on the PC and then deploying on the consoles.’ And we didn’t make that as crisp of a distinction as we could have.
“My development system now has twenty four threads and twenty four gigs of memory, and we can start putting on half a terrabyte of solid state drives, and these are the things that are gonna drive the development process on the PC. I’m actually as excited about how we’re developing tht titles in this coming generation as the graphic enhancements and things that I’m gonna make.
“…it is unhappily true that we have these consoles here running at sixty frames per second, and we could have these massively more powerful PC systems that struggle sometimes to hold the same framerate because of unnecessary overheads. If we were programming that hardware directly on the metal the same way we do consoles, it would be significantly more powerful.” |
Hear it from the man himself
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 21:59 Post subject: |
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That was already true in 2006.
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:00 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
And we all know it, but it's always interesting when it also comes from "public" characters and innovators, past tense, like Carmack. |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:01 Post subject: |
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No shit Sherlock.
And still, Rage, Doom 4 - console are lead platforms.  And of course Carmack didn't see it coming, he thought that six years ago consoles were equal to PC and that's how they would stay forever. 
What a joke this idiot has become. No respect for him; anything he spews these days is worse and worse. Do us a favor, focus on iOS development. Oh wait, even there, Epic are doing a better job than your engine. 
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:03 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
No it wasn't.
Also:
| Quote: | "It is a little bit of a shame that despite the raw horsepower, we are hampered by the arm's length API interface because it is, unhappily, true that we have the consoles here running at 60 frames per second and we can have these massively more powerful PC systems that struggle sometimes to hold the framerate because of unnecessary overheads.
"Where, if we were programming that hardware directly on the metal the same way we do the consoles, it would be significantly more powerful." |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:04 Post subject: |
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wait, wasn't it him not long back stating that he thinks consoles are the way to go?
well paraphrasing, but could have swore he jumped on the "piracy..blah blah. hardware compliance" bandwagon a few months back.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:04 Post subject: |
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@Karmack: No shit, Sherlock!
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:04 Post subject: |
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What a bunch of marketing bullshit.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:05 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | wait, wasn't it him not long back stating that he thinks consoles are the way to go?
well paraphrasing, but could have swore he jumped on the "piracy..blah blah. hardware compliance" bandwagon a few months back. |
From the same interview:
| Quote: | | "And those just end up being the cold hard economic truths," he concluded, "that you can spent $100 million working on a game now, and if you did that focused on the PC you'd be out of business." |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:05 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
No it wasn't. |
That's a load of crap. In 2006, I had a Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM and a 8800GTX. Still pwns console hardware even today. That is all. |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:07 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | consolitis wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
No it wasn't. |
That's a load of crap. In 2006, I had a Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM and a 8800GTX. Still pwns console hardware even today. That is all. |
Erm, of course. But I didn't. Neither my friends. Neither a lot of other people. So my machine was holding you back anyway, since I hadn't upgraded yet.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:08 Post subject: |
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He looks like Kevni Bacon 
1 and 2 are still amazing.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:09 Post subject: |
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Whatever happened to releasing games that would stress your hardware so much you wouldn't be able to run it properly? Where is the Doom 3 of this generation? Or the Quake 2 of this generation? Karmack used to make these engines. Now he "challenges" the consoles with a Tech 4, eh sorry, Tech 5 outdated shit.
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xExtreme
Posts: 5811
Location: 43 6C 75 6A 2D 4E 61 70 6F 63 61
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:11 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:12 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | yea. what I was saying consolitis...
not sure what hes trying to say..hes like a politician..lots of words and 'facts'...little actual action/opinion.
so is he saying that consoles are hurting PC's and that it needs to be fixed..or that consoles are hurting PC gaming because they are so much better?  |
There's no reason for the consoles to hold the PC back, if PC games sell better than they do. That's what he's saying.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:12 Post subject: |
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Who in the world forces you to spend $100M Carmack?
How about aiming smaller and trying with gameplay instead of experience-driven derivative fluff in a pretty package.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:14 Post subject: |
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| xExtreme wrote: | | iNatan wrote: | | consolitis wrote: |
No it wasn't. |
That's a load of crap. In 2006, I had a Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM and a 8800GTX. Still pwns console hardware even today. That is all. |
Wasn't 8800GTX released late in 2007?
@ Interview "No shit Sherlock" |
Close. November 2006 for $600
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:16 Post subject: |
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I think the issue is some new "gamers" today (the casual ones I guess..they all have consoles) assume PC games = flash games.
I know a few personally that have a 360 AND a ps3..and tell them try a PC game. and they go "why would I want to play bubble bobble and bejewled..Ive seen games like that for the PC.i got a xbawks 360! did you know I can play online with friends with realtime voicechat on it??"
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:18 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | I think the issue is some new "gamers" today (the casual ones I guess..they all have consoles) assume PC games = flash games.
I know a few personally that have a 360 AND a ps3..and tell them try a PC game. and they go "why would I want to play bubble bobble and bejewled..Ive seen games like that for the PC.i got a xbawks 360! did you know I can play online with friends with realtime voicechat on it??" |
... and then you punch them in the gut, right?
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:22 Post subject: |
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I wish those "twenty four threads and twenty four gigs of memory" were used for something useful, not for the ~10gb worth of unoptimized code, HD textures and zero gameplay...
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:32 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
In terms of general capability, flexibility that has always been and always will be true. But in terms of power - it wasn't. When current generation of consoles came out, they were more powerful than PCs, the same was true for the previous generations. By the end of 2006 maybe 5% of gamers had equal or slightly more powerful hardware than consoles, so you can't say it was talready rue in 2006.
ASUS GTX 660 2GB, AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE, MSI 870-G45, 4GB DDR3 1333, Plextor M5 Pro 128GB, WD Red 1TB
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:37 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:44 Post subject: |
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| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
In terms of general capability, flexibility that has always been and always will be true. But in terms of power - it wasn't. When current generation of consoles came out, they were more powerful than PCs, the same was true for the previous generations. By the end of 2006 maybe 5% of gamers had equal or slightly more powerful hardware than consoles, so you can't say it was talready rue in 2006. |
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=18358
November 2007, that's close to 2008, Steam reported that 60% of PC gamers were still using single core CPUs.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:49 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Neon wrote: | | That was already true in 2006. |
In terms of general capability, flexibility that has always been and always will be true. But in terms of power - it wasn't. When current generation of consoles came out, they were more powerful than PCs, the same was true for the previous generations. By the end of 2006 maybe 5% of gamers had equal or slightly more powerful hardware than consoles, so you can't say it was talready rue in 2006. |
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=18358
November 2007, that's close to 2008, Steam reported that 60% of PC gamers were still using single core CPUs. |
I was using a single-core till late 2009  switched to quad-core 2 months ago.
ASUS GTX 660 2GB, AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE, MSI 870-G45, 4GB DDR3 1333, Plextor M5 Pro 128GB, WD Red 1TB
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jun 2011 22:52 Post subject: |
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Did they also show the target games of these single-core users?  Same with 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions that were popular until late. Because if you disregard the CS and CSS horde of noobcakes, I am sure results would be much more balanced.
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