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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51398
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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 Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:15 Post subject: |
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Wow what a deal! 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:19 Post subject: |
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| sausje wrote: | What does DX11 has to do with AMD purely? :s
Meaning that there woudnt be any diffrence between having ATI dx11 or Nvidia? :\ |
No it wonยดt and will never be. DX11 is an API standard both AMD and nVidia do their best to cheat the api's (optimize code outside the api) so in Fact it does allot for AMD or nVidia to get their logo slapped on, work close together with the driver development teams and get their driver code optimized for specific games like this one (think about faster loading, less z-fighting, better crossfire support etc etc).
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:37 Post subject: |
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I'd rathar have Augmented stuff physically with me, rather than bits and bytes on my HDD.
i5 6600k @ 4.3 GHz | MSI z170 Gaming M7 | 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury | 850 Evo 500GB | EVGA 1070 SC | Seasonic X-660 | CM Storm Stryker
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:40 Post subject: |
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How is optimizing cheating?
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:43 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | How is optimizing cheating? |
Let's look at AMD's "optimization" of tessellation: reduce it as much as possible so their hardware can remain competitive. 
BTW, it is the same with nV: if(hardware != "nV") { physX.maxFPS = 0.3f; } |
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:49 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | How is optimizing cheating? |
Let's look at AMD's "optimization" of tessellation: reduce it as much as possible so their hardware can remain competitive.
BTW, it is the same with nV: if(hardware != "nV") { physX.maxFPS = 0.3f; } |
Agreed.
We should all switch to consoles, at least there neither AMD nor Nvidia can pull their cheap tricks. 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 13:54 Post subject: |
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Yep. In Mafia 2 the grass was simply removed to allow the proper display of the amazing hi-def ground textures offered by nVidia and Bluray.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:23 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:30 Post subject: |
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I know it isn't? That's exactly how it is, and your example shows it. HW companies cheat their asses off to "optimize" their drivers for games, instead of optimizing their shit hardware. The ability to toggle on or off has no importance because these features are turned on by default (or by EXE name case-by-case ), and most people don't even open their HW panel. But these same people will go "zomg AMD runs tessellation so much better after I updated my driver, AMD is amazing!  ". That's how it is, and you know it.
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:40 Post subject: |
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Heh, similar to how that mip-map option in the CCC default to high quality and not very-high quality thus reducing image quality for performance by default, or how Catalyst AI can't be disabled at all (Enraging Crossfire users quite a bit supposedly.) on newer hardware outside of tweak utilities.
That said I like the additional options but I adjust the GPU settings manually and carefully, leaving it at default has always been a bad idea in my experience whether it's NVIDIA, AMD or Intel.
(Depending on what you prefer, I try to get the most out of the visuals after all.)
Tesselation is something I would like to look into better whenever I upgrade the hardware, AMD's settings are 2x so app-controlled (Normally a bad idea due to aggressive optimizations I'd assume.) by default and then 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, 32x and 64x which is supposedly the normal and standard value which I find a bit odd as that's way too high to be noticeable in the comparisons I've checked, 4x to 8x is barely noticeable already. (Was it 8x or 6x come to think of it?) but it's understandable that this would skew the benchmark results a bit depending on what ATI enforce as the defaults. (That surface-format optimization issue is still there, when ticked texture quality is reduced in a number of games despite how it's said it has nothing to do with that, got a PM regarding this with someone asking why Crysis looked so blurry and turning that off resolved the majority of the issues in the PM exchanges we had before testing this, I don't have that feature myself though so again I can't verify anything but it would be interesting to test properly.)
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:40 Post subject: |
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So keeping it at max, no matter what, wouldn't be cheating? It's not like they're hiding what's being done, it's an option.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:53 Post subject: |
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The people that don't even go into the HW panel also won't notice the difference between 8 or 6 tesselation samples either, nor will they see the difference between 0 and -1 on texture LOD 
The problem is that they sometimes fuck up, and that's when you get these retarded outcries. To take two cases everyone should be familiar with: ATI + Q3 + R200 (8500), or NVIDIA + Crysis. In both cases they fucked it up, and all of a sudden you have the usual finger pointing going on.
Fact is, these optimisations are needed, because the chips are different. Having a single API is all fine and dandy, but you still have to translate that to something that works on your architecture, and an architecture will rarely be perfect for everything that it needs to do. If you build the architecture to fit the API, then there's not going to be much competition. NVIDIA focused on tessellation, because they were late enough to do so. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, including the various AA modes each supports - some modes work better in some situations, where others fail.
Again, they have to cater these cards for the general masses, you overestimate the number of people that will notice most of these optimisations (unless explicitly presented to them). The few people that will care, will be the ones tweaking the shit out of their drivers, games and system anyway, and all they need is the option to change these settings.
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 14:58 Post subject: |
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I think I'm still going to stick with ATi for my next upgrade, snag me one of those 6950s. Tessellation looks nice, but it's used far too in-frequently for games atm ... definitely not worth switching camps over. I'll buy whatever is faster for the money.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 15:09 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | So keeping it at max, no matter what, wouldn't be cheating? It's not like they're hiding what's being done, it's an option. |
I define an "option" as something that is turned off by default, and can be enabled by choice. Otherwise, the option is actually having the highest quality the game developers intended.
But on the topic of cheating, any algorithm other than ray tracing with infinite bounce (aka approximation) is cheating, so I wouldn't take this word as an insult so much. |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 15:13 Post subject: |
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Can we talk about the game? 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 15:14 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | Can we talk about the game? |
Sure; what can we say that hasn't be said up to now? |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 15:17 Post subject: |
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Idk 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34974
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 19:10 Post subject: |
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Guyver
Posts: 2221
Location: Bunga-Bun... err Italy.
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34974
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 19:29 Post subject: |
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Well it's mostly speculation, the entries are there but for all we know the demo might come after the release date for the main game if they're doing console versions first, as one example.
Useful utility that Steam RegEdit program, can't really do much with it but just viewing new entries and listings can sometimes reveal interesting details though it's often very sparse.
(Normally I only use it to see if the decryption keys are out yet but lately I've been checking new and updated listings for info such as this.)
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 19:29 Post subject: |
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| difm wrote: | | I'd rathar have Augmented stuff physically with me, rather than bits and bytes on my HDD. |
+1
Id like to have a physical box when I pay for a game
ASUS Maximus XII Formula | Core i9 10900k @ 5.2Ghz | 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4200Mhz | EVGA RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper | ASUS ROG PG35VQ |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 19:48 Post subject: |
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I still can't get over it how lame that main character is. Also the fact that it's modeled after that hipster creative director faggot and voiced by some guy with a forced grainy voice. Just doesn't connect with me.
Asus, B550, 3700X, 3060, 32GB.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 19:55 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 21:18 Post subject: |
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Yes, a PC demo will come.
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 22:18 Post subject: |
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| JBeckman wrote: | | (There's a Duke Forever demo linked up to some weird Piranha build record as well.) |
Piranha Games are responsible for the MP of DNF, so this means that the DNF demo we are waiting for will likely be MP instead of SP 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 22:21 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | Yes, a PC demo will come. |
How about asking your contact in Nixxes to fix the smoothness/sensitivity of the mouse? 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sat, 7th May 2011 23:33 Post subject: |
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But DNF MP is a Piranha Games production. I don't see how it bears no significance.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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