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TSR69
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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 Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2011 00:55 Post subject: |
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those years all look pretty ok really, ups and downs a little but it always seems to not get any worse... Id iike to see the next 5 years now
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TSR69
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Frant
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2011 18:27 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: | | those years all look pretty ok really, ups and downs a little but it always seems to not get any worse... Id iike to see the next 5 years now |
Look at the outline of the 1979 polar cap and then compare ice cap with that outline as years pass by.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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TSR69
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Frant
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Frant
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Rofl_Mao
Posts: 3187
Location: Nederland
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2011 20:59 Post subject: |
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I think the main reason for the "common man" to deny global warming is just money and cars. Global warming is a long term phenomenon, while most people want to satisfy short term needs. Plus it's easy because you don't have to do anything. The common man however is not in charge, so (thankfully I think) most governments have had climate policies for many years.
It's true scientists haven't unanimously agreed on mankind being the cause of global warming, but the majority thinks it is. The impression I'm getting is that about 75% of science thinks mankind is the cause. So there might still be a chance that people haven't got anything to do with climate change. Which would actually be great because we could then fly in airplanes all we want and have barbecues every day.
| Lopin18 wrote: | I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.  |
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2011 22:57 Post subject: |
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If it isn't mankind who are behind global warming, it would still be necessary to make precautions against the weather changes. Is CO2 really that polluting? Does it directly hurt us? If it doesn't I would rather use the money to secure some of the vulnerable places and see if the higher temperatures can be used for some neat stuff. I don't know maybe some new places to grow grain or something.
To me it seems like a lost cause to try and lower the CO2 levels enough for it to have any impact.
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TSR69
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Mon, 10th Jan 2011 14:59 Post subject: |
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Another argument to change our oil based economies is that we will run out of easy to "harvest" oil.
With the start of the Industrial Revolution humanity started significantly changing the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas (like water vapour, methane, nitrous oxide, ozone and chlorofluorocarbons), the changing of the atmosphere will have a significant impact on the global climate. Note that we in less than 300 years have made a bigger change to the atmosphere than the normal earthly processes (like volcanic activity) during eight hundred thousand years.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html
Methods to measure that are for example examining air in Antarctic ice:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5314592.stm
Formerly known as iconized
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Jan 2011 23:25 Post subject: |
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Haven't you heard, Global Warming is all a buncha bullshit according to US Republicans/Tea Party ppl.
Its all hocus pocus 'science mumbojumbo' 
I mean, the world is only 6000 years old, duh 
Seriously, how ppl can believe nonsense like that is baffling. I understand a leap of faith but fuck...to ignore hard science is fuckin ludacris.
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 05:46 Post subject: |
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hard science can also be falsified to support it self and gain more funds.
Global warming is legit...
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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TSR69
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 19:10 Post subject: |
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WaldoJ you are on of those, it is impossible to have a discussion with since you're not willing to examine the material that is presented. You assume it is all falsified perhaps? You most likely live a bell of assumptions.
Formerly known as iconized
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SycoShaman
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 19:28 Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Icon
Global Warming is real. All you have to do is look at the weather.
Not to mention EVERY scientist agree's that GW is a fact.
Its not reverse but it will be soon if we take the right measures.
@Waldo
Something wrong man?
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 19:33 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: |
I mean, the world is only 6000 years old, duh
Seriously, how ppl can believe nonsense like that is baffling. I understand a leap of faith but fuck...to ignore hard science is fuckin ludacris. |
What if you didn't know very much about the physics behind radioactive decay( quantum tunneling through the potential barrier, the differential equation for decays and so on)? You would still believe the earth is older than 6000 years because alot of people have told you that, even though you really havn't got any insight on where these assumptions come from. Basicly you believe what we tell you to.
Now what if you lived somewhere where there was group of wise men, who over many years have told "knowledgable" things? They often seem to be right( or they are traditionally right), then why wouldn't you believe them when they toldl you the earth is only 6000 years. It's not like you know anything about carbon-dating. |
There are thousands of other things that require just a very average intellect to realise the Earth is older than some religious nuts says. Dinosaurs anybody?
You don't need to be a nuclear physicist to laugh at delusional religious people.
| atropa wrote: | | Basicly you believe what we tell you to. |
Only the meekest of the meek sheep. There's such a thing as rational thinking, common sense, critical thought, weighing different claims/facts against each other etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Obviously you'd have a different starting point if this happened 2000 years ago, but it's not 2000 years ago. There is no excuse for people in the "enlightened" western world to believe the Earth is 6000 years old.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 20:11 Post subject: |
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The only way to gauge the age of the earth I personally know anything about is carbon-dating. So if i didn't know about that I would have to base my assumptions on the other things you mention for which I have no idea of how precise they are or what their limitations are. I would have to rely on people I think do good and sound science. But really I wouldn't have the slightest idea of wether somebody was just joking around with me.
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Jan 2011 20:21 Post subject: |
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Existence of oil then. Through chemistry (not carbon dating) you come to the conclusion that it has taken hundreds of thousands of years for dead organic matter to transform into oil and natural gas. If you're not versed in chemistry: read several books and correlate information. If you don't have access to books, schools or knowledgeable people - herd your sheep.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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TSR69
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TSR69
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jan 2011 17:20 Post subject: |
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Rational thought is one thing.
Rational thought based on evidence is another thing.
Rational thought based on what scientists tell you to get more money from you is yet another thing.
Global Warming is legit. Listening to the causes is bull shit though. According to science we're all to blame, when it's also true that animals that peta defends also cause CO2. The things environmentalists do also cause damage to the planet.
Aging of the earth is also lulz. You have christians who say they've created a fossil of pickle in a matter of months. You have Scientists who say the earth is millions upon millions of years old. You also have Scientists who say this and that. You have various religions aging the earth differently. None of it really matters.
Fact of the matter is... if we don't adapt we'll keep complaining. The winters are getting colder, summers are getting hotter. The core temp is increasing. And what do we do? Throw more money into science to find a cure. There is no cure. Planets die. We're on a dying planet. We're not killing it. Its just killing itself. We're only helping it die faster. And by we, i mean everyone. Even vegans, even those silly environmentalists, even religious nut jobs. By finding a way to make our lives more comfortable we're not adapting to the planet and every year we get OMFG SNOW IN JULY! NO WAY!
Give it 50 years and we'll still be in the same situation whining and cringing and complaining how we killed our children because the planet is going... fuck that. If we're not colonizing our solar system by 2070 then we are all fuck then.
Religion is keeping us on this planet. Simple as that. And with religion, whether or not you believe in it, we will all die.
Science is also keeping us on this planet. But that's more complicated. Religion is easier to blame since every 'rational thinker' hates religion. Science is causing so much shit on this planet its ridiculous. Fraudulent information is everywhere. It's a pyramid scheme. Want more money throw more science into it.
Real science is still out there and it's even more dangerous, but it's fucking amazing. Can't wait for humanity to finally become what it's been trying to become for the past 80 years. It actually will be far more awesome than this 'global warming' malarky that's been around since bank cheques were invented. It's been happening since day 0. But it's in the limelight for the past dozens of years. BLEH.
iconized, No. I analyze the information. And you can have a discussion with me. A legitimate discussion. But seriously, science nowadays is more money driven than anything else. There is real awesome science out there, and then there's government funded science with real scientists who are paid to give the information that people NEED to see be scared and worried and terrified.
 Even those who believe they are not sheep, are also sheep.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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TSR69
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Jan 2011 21:54 Post subject: |
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Science and Scientists:
Scientists publish their findings and others scientists will examine the information or redo the experiments. So if scientific findings are false it will most likely be debunked. Remember the claim of cold fusion back in 1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion#Announcement)? And yes there are scientists who deliberately falsify information but certainly in the exact sciences it is kinda hard to get away with it. I think it is not reasonable to think that all the climate scientists are falsifying information and their findings to get more funding. On the other hand they need more funding for climate change research because there are still too many unknowns. For example the exact role of the oceans in distributing warmth globally. ESA's satellite GOCE is tracking that now:
http://www.esa.int/esaLP/LPgoce.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/mar/16/climate-change-oceans-satellite-esa
Global warming:
So you agree it is happening but that it is due to carbon dioxide is an hoax? Earth's climate is a gigantic complex and entropic system compared to the size of us humans. Compared to the universe it is not. There are so many cycles and occurrences that have an influence on this system that some changes noticed during a couple of decades can't hardly been seen as significant for a longer term trend. However we know we are burning tons of fossil fuels and we can roughly calculate the amount of carbon dioxide pushed into the air. And with the research done we can be pretty sure now that not even the dinosaurs have witnessed the current carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere. Not that they actually could notice that since they had a brain the size of a walnut.
And here is why the climate scientists are right IMO. You can actually calculate how much extra warmth/energy is contained by earth's climate system by the higher carbon dioxide concentration. But still too many unknowns like how much extra water vapour will this create? Water vapour is also a greenhouse gas. Or how many clouds will it cause, clouds deflect energy. You are right by saying that massive factory farming is not helping either but mainly because the massive amount of poo of the animals releases massive amounts of methane that is also a greenhouse gas.
Other reasons to abandon our reliance on fossil fuels:
- The climate changes that have already been set off will destroy many ecosystems. The longer we will continue the worse the outcome.
- We are paying billions of ¥€$ to religious nut cases in Arabia that use the money for political and religious goals.
- The searching and drilling for oil wastes ecosystems.
- We will run out of oil eventually.
- The whole of the oil based economies is extremely wasteful.
Last edited by TSR69 on Sat, 15th Jan 2011 22:12; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Jan 2011 22:03 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | Dinosaurs anybody? |
You mean jesus ponies?  |
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