|
|
| Page 3 of 6 |
|
|
 Posted: Sat, 4th Dec 2010 22:01 Post subject: |
|
 |
| peter980 wrote: | | The difference is that with retail disc (if having no activation), no one can force you how you use that "license". |
That's not true. Companies don't do it, because that's too much of a hassle, but that doesn't mean they can't.
| peter980 wrote: | | They can ever revoke it if they "feel like it". |
That's just nonsense.
| nos wrote: | | Valve could easily start charging you every time you wanted to play a game, if they felt like it. |
Nonsense, if they did that they would get mass sued and THEY WOULD LOSE.
| OLime wrote: | | Steam? Yeah, they can cut off your account if they wanted to... |
Nonsense.
Last edited by JanKowalski82 on Sun, 5th Dec 2010 01:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 4th Dec 2010 22:05 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | peter980 wrote: | | They can ever revoke it if they "feel like it". |
That's just nonsense. |
Why not. They see, for example, that one of your games is in fact pirated, or that you are too much disruptive in forums, or using some hack in some MP game, and then they decide to ban your whole account (you broke your license agreement, blah, blah, blah...), including all bought games.
^You don't need to be actually guilty on anything. It's enough if they think you are.
Last edited by peter980 on Sat, 4th Dec 2010 22:18; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 4th Dec 2010 22:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| peter980 wrote: | | Quote: | | peter980 wrote: | | They can ever revoke it if they "feel like it". |
That's just nonsense. |
Why not. They see, for example, that one of your games is in fact pirated, or that you are too much disruptive in forums, or using some hack in some MP game, and then they decide to ban your whole account (you broke your license agreement, blah, blah, blah...), including all bought games. |
What do you mean pirated ? If you pirated a game then you don't have it on your Steam account, so they don't know that you have it.
If you are trolling on the forum, you get banned from the forum, not your account.
If you're cheating on MP, you get a VAC ban, not an account ban.
Besides, don't you think there is a difference between: "because they feel like it" and "because they have a legitimate reason to ban you"?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 4th Dec 2010 23:48 Post subject: |
|
|
| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | peter980 wrote: | | The difference is that with retail disc (if having no activation), no one can force you how you use that "license". |
That's not true. Companies don't do it, because that's too much of a hassle, but that doesn't mean they can't. |
Now you made me curious how any company can control what I do with my retail discs. This, of course, does not take into account games you do not really own but merely rent, like any game that is dependent on UPlay, for example. So, enlighten us please and do not disregard verything replying "nonsense" and not prove your point... if there is any.
| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | nos wrote: | | Valve could easily start charging you every time you wanted to play a game, if they felt like it. |
Nonsense, if they did that they would get mass sued and THEY WOULD LOOSE. |
You clearly have not a single clue how contract law and terms of service work. Valve CAN change their terms at will, and they would not loose anything. Because, once again for the slow, unlike with retail games and those from GOG, you do not own Steam games, you just rent them. The only retail games that are like Steam games are those which are dpenedant on a service like UPlay.
[quote="JanKowalski82"] | OLime wrote: | | Steam? Yeah, they can cut off your account if they wanted to... |
Nonsense.[/quote]
Great reply, very sophisticated and totaly convincing.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 00:41 Post subject: |
|
|
| OLime wrote: | | Now you made me curious how any company can control what I do with my retail discs. This, of course, does not take into account games you do not really own but merely rent, like any game that is dependent on UPlay, for example. So, enlighten us please and do not disregard verything replying "nonsense" and not prove your point... if there is any. |
I didn't mean they can control what you do with the disc, because the disc is an item you own (your property) and you can do whatever you want with it. They can, however, control how you use your license (again, you don't own THE GAME). If you do something with a retail game that is considered a breach of the license, you CAN loose your license. And if you do and continue to play the game, you are a pirate in the same way, as if you've never bought the game.
| OLime wrote: | | You clearly have not a single clue how contract law and terms of service work. Valve CAN change their terms at will, and they would not loose anything. Because, once again for the slow, unlike with retail games and those from GOG, you do not own Steam games, you just rent them. The only retail games that are like Steam games are those which are dpenedant on a service like UPlay. |
Yes I do and you apparently don't. Again, you never own a game, you only purchase a license, that allows you to use it. Be it retail, Steam or other DD service. Saying you only rent Steam games shows how ignorant you are. You don't understand what it means to rent something. Valve can't introduce fees for using your games, because when you purchase a game (a license) you purchase a right to use it indefinately and for free (unless it's a MMO of course). They can't change the terms of license for individual games you've already bought. If Steam develops into something bigger and they want to introduce fees for using it (Steam, not individual games), they would have to seperate your games from Steam, because otherwise it would prevent you from using your games free of charge, which you are entitled to.
Licenses for individual games and terms of service for Steam are 2 seperate things.
| OLime wrote: | | Great reply, very sophisticated and totaly convincing. |
Anyone with half a brain cell knows they can't cut you off just because they want to.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 00:50 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 00:55 Post subject: |
|
|
| garus wrote: | | JanKowalski82 wrote: | | OLime wrote: | | Great reply, very sophisticated and totaly convincing. |
Anyone with half a brain cell knows they can't cut you off just because they want to. |
They can, but that doesn't mean they will.
And Steam will someday fall and stop working. Then you will lose all your games. |
1. They have to have a reason to disable you account.
2. It's been said many times (I think by Gabe himself) that if Steam goes out of business, the games will be patched and seperated from it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 01:09 Post subject: |
|
|
STEAM® SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT
This Steam Subscriber Agreement ("Agreement") is a legal document that explains your rights and obligations as a Subscriber. Please read it carefully.
1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.
You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration. Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers.
Each Subscription allows you access to certain services, software and other content under the terms of each such Subscription and this Agreement. Additional terms provided with each such Subscription ("Subscription Terms") may apply to the use of a given Subscription, and are incorporated into this Agreement. Further, additional terms (for example, fees and billing procedures) may be posted on http://www.steampowered.com or within the Steam service ("Rules of Use"), and are incorporated into this Agreement. As a Subscriber, you agree to all of the terms and conditions of the Valve Privacy Policy, which are also incorporated into this Agreement. A copy of the Valve Privacy Policy can be found at http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.htm.
13. TERM AND TERMINATION
Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.
2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.
Unless I'm reading it wrong Valve can change their rules anytime they want, including fees and cancelling your account at their discretion
The last part sounds very much as if Valve don't have to a damn thing to provide access to your games if Steam is ever trashed
Again, nobody is saying anything like that (extra fees, account deletion without reason etc) will ever happen but everybody that is a "Subscriber" to Steam has given Valve the authority to do just that
I'm in no way anti-Valve or Steam, I just don't use it yet, no way to pay online, crappy DSL and the like
The above won't stop me from using it in the future but Valve's stance is a valid concern in my eyes
I even bought the Orange Box a while back but haven't installed it yet, mainly due to reports of an 8GB update needed just for TF2 and my chronic lack of hdd space
As for the original point of the topic, it looks Steam is doing a lot of good for the smaller guys, good on them
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 01:24 Post subject: |
|
|
| nos wrote: | | I even bought the Orange Box a while back but haven't installed it yet, mainly due to reports of an 8GB update needed just for TF2 and my chronic lack of hdd space |
http://www.teamfortress.com/119/
After 119 updates TF2's size became 4.83GB from 2.45GB, when originally released. There's no 8GB update.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 01:34 Post subject: |
|
|
People often seem to forget, that apart from contracts and licenses there is also somehing called THE LAW (Constitution, Acts, Common Law in the UK and US). No private agreement is above the law.
Example: of course Valve can disable your account. But if they do that without a legitimate reason, they can be sued for damages and they most definately would lose.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 07:30 Post subject: |
|
|
| JanKowalski82 wrote: | People often seem to forget, that apart from contracts and licenses there is also somehing called THE LAW (Constitution, Acts, Common Law in the UK and US). No private agreement is above the law.
Example: of course Valve can disable your account. But if they do that without a legitimate reason, they can be sued for damages and they most definately would lose. |
You are wrong. I have degrees in both German and American common law, I studied European and UN contract law and am working as a lawyer for a few years now. Just a few months back, the German Supreme Court ruled that when you buy a game, even a retail one, that is dependent on Steam, you only buy a piece of plastic and are totally dependant on Steam. This means the disc is worthless if you refuse to use Steam. They do not need any reason at all to change their terms, just like any bank where you have an account, for example. If they change their terms, and you disagre with that change, you are out. Simple as that. There is no law that generally forbids that. You can basically sign any contract about anything with anybody, with only a few exceptions.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 09:30 Post subject: |
|
|
| consolitis wrote: | | nos wrote: | | I even bought the Orange Box a while back but haven't installed it yet, mainly due to reports of an 8GB update needed just for TF2 and my chronic lack of hdd space |
http://www.teamfortress.com/119/
After 119 updates TF2's size became 4.83GB from 2.45GB, when originally released. There's no 8GB update. |
Seen many ppl cry how big valve updates are. but when i downloaded bc2 it was 8GB? and every update get bigger and bigger last one was 2.5GB total is over 20GB.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 11:25 Post subject: |
|
|
Seen many ppl cry how big valve updates are. but when i downloaded bc2 it was 8GB? and every update get bigger and bigger last one was 2.5GB total is over 20GB.[/quote]
Some people would be on limited monthly DL quotas, with either shaping or excess usage charged additionally when that quota is exceeded. Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth so when that is taken into account, sure some people will complain which they are quite within their right's to do.
Personally I absolutely HATE steam and will never ever use it, it's intrusive, controls what you do regarding using games that are attached to it, and is a rip off to boot with the associated charges they bare upon their customers for most new games. The only positive I've ever heard of steam is regarding what the OP has linked to and quoted on this thread, but that does not mean a real lot IMHO, unless everything you read on the net is taken as gospel.
Steam the cash cow got where it is because the consumer's helped it happen. Unfortunately a lot of people have short memories or are not aware about how steam have done business regarding customer service in the past. I remember well what happened to many people when HL2 was released with it and all the closed account's associated with that debacle. And yes, I was one also with a legit key like so many others. What customer support did I get at the time: ZILCH. I hold grudges about that sort of crap, therefore Gabe & Steam Co can go fuck themselves. One consolation, monopolies don't last forever (hopefully).
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 12:26 Post subject: |
|
|
| OLime wrote: | | You are wrong. I have degrees in both German and American common law, I studied European and UN contract law and am working as a lawyer for a few years now. Just a few months back, the German Supreme Court ruled that when you buy a game, even a retail one, that is dependent on Steam, you only buy a piece of plastic and are totally dependant on Steam. This means the disc is worthless if you refuse to use Steam. |
If this is true you need to head back to school, as it is by law, impossible to own any piece of software unless you developed it (and even then there are serious caveats) - that does not only apply to Steam games. With every single piece of "software" you buy, what you actually buy is a usage license, and you thereby adhere to any limitations imposed by the developer. You've said several times that with retail discs you are "free", but you're far from free.
Yes, Valve may change the EULA at will and if you don't agree you're out. Same goes for all software however. Microsoft may release a Service Pack for Windows with an updated EULA, Adobe may change their EULA when updating their shit, and so on. The very Flash player you have installed on your system may have its EULA changed with an update, and all they have to do is show you some text telling you it has been changed and where to find the new one. They don't even need to highlight what has changed exactly, as long as the updated one is available.
Have you ever bothered to read the EULAs that come with non-Steamworks games? They all include the line that they reserve the right to change it at any given time. It's also something one should be aware of when purchasing, regardless if it's Steam or not.
Some of you are really pulling this out of context, and you haven't even started to look at copyright issues. Did you know for example that it is impossible for a company to actually have the copyright to software? Bet you didn't.
If your precious retail disk has any form of online activation, which they all do these days, then they can change the EULA for activation at any given time just the same and deny you access. To take on GOG, they may change some license as well, preventing you from re-downloading the installer, thereby once again denying you access. Stop acting as if Valve and Steam are the only ones who have this shit in their EULA, every piece of software does. The only games where you actually are entirely free in how they operate are the ones that do not rely on any online service at all. That's games from last century, because I don't think we've had any this century that don't use either a master server for server lists, activation or anything similar.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 12:40 Post subject: |
|
|
| OLime wrote: | | Just a few months back, the German Supreme Court ruled that when you buy a game, even a retail one, that is dependent on Steam, you only buy a piece of plastic and are totally dependant on Steam. This means the disc is worthless if you refuse to use Steam. |
Yes, with Steamworks games you basically just buy a key, which you activate on Steam. The disc is just a backup copy of game files you can just download from Steam.
But what does this have to do with what I said and you quoted ?
| OLime wrote: | | They do not need any reason at all to change their terms, just like any bank where you have an account, for example. If they change their terms, and you disagre with that change, you are out. Simple as that. There is no law that generally forbids that. You can basically sign any contract about anything with anybody, with only a few exceptions. |
I never said they can't change their terms of service. I said they can't disable your account without a reason and you can sue them for damages if they do. Cancelling a bank account agreement has no negative consequences, you just withdraw your money and go to another bank.
Of course you can sign any contract you want. But if an element of that contract is against the law, that element or the whole contract is void, especially if you're a consumer and the other part uses general terms of services as part of the contract (something you have no influence on).
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 12:53 Post subject: |
|
|
| pwerelds wrote: | | OLime wrote: | | You are wrong. I have degrees in both German and American common law, I studied European and UN contract law and am working as a lawyer for a few years now. Just a few months back, the German Supreme Court ruled that when you buy a game, even a retail one, that is dependent on Steam, you only buy a piece of plastic and are totally dependant on Steam. This means the disc is worthless if you refuse to use Steam. |
If this is true you need to head back to school, as it is by law, impossible to own any piece of software unless you developed it (and even then there are serious caveats) - that does not only apply to Steam games. With every single piece of "software" you buy, what you actually buy is a usage license, and you thereby adhere to any limitations imposed by the developer. You've said several times that with retail discs you are "free", but you're far from free.
Yes, Valve may change the EULA at will and if you don't agree you're out. Same goes for all software however. Microsoft may release a Service Pack for Windows with an updated EULA, Adobe may change their EULA when updating their shit, and so on. The very Flash player you have installed on your system may have its EULA changed with an update, and all they have to do is show you some text telling you it has been changed and where to find the new one. They don't even need to highlight what has changed exactly, as long as the updated one is available.
Have you ever bothered to read the EULAs that come with non-Steamworks games? They all include the line that they reserve the right to change it at any given time. It's also something one should be aware of when purchasing, regardless if it's Steam or not.
Some of you are really pulling this out of context, and you haven't even started to look at copyright issues. Did you know for example that it is impossible for a company to actually have the copyright to software? Bet you didn't.
If your precious retail disk has any form of online activation, which they all do these days, then they can change the EULA for activation at any given time just the same and deny you access. To take on GOG, they may change some license as well, preventing you from re-downloading the installer, thereby once again denying you access. Stop acting as if Valve and Steam are the only ones who have this shit in their EULA, every piece of software does. The only games where you actually are entirely free in how they operate are the ones that do not rely on any online service at all. That's games from last century, because I don't think we've had any this century that don't use either a master server for server lists, activation or anything similar. |
Very good post.
Pretty much every software needs updates, to the point where the original version on the disc very soon becomes obselete.
So if you're afraid Valve might lock you out of your games, you have to remember that every company whose software you bought might do that too.
Not to mention that the very OS most of you are using right now (Windows) requires Internet Activation anyway and Microsoft could easily not renew your activation the next time you install it, for whatever reason (this is the "because they feel like it", argument).
So what do you do? Pirate everything because of the fear that the software you've bought might become useless?
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 13:37 Post subject: |
|
|
| consolitis wrote: |
So what do you do? Pirate everything because of the fear that the software you've bought might become useless? |
I would argue that you should always buy the games that you love (preferably through a service which gives the most to developers), but always keep up with the latest trends in copy protection and cracking. I'll say that I love Steam, and that mostly everything I buy is through digital distribution - I just can't be arsed with discs which require waiting 10 minutes to install, and then hunting out patches for games, or for the patch distro service (GPGNet can fuck right off). But, I know that as soon as Steam or G4W or Impulse or whoever stop me from playing games I rightfully bought, I'll pirate those games to hell and back. And if anyone from the law catches me, I'll say that I rightfully bought said games, and that the pirated versions are backups. 
This, to me, is why the last 2 pages of this thread are pointless. 
Pixieking
----------
ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 14:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| pwerelds wrote: |
If this is true you need to head back to school, as it is by law, impossible to own any piece of software unless you developed it (and even then there are serious caveats) - that does not only apply to Steam games. With every single piece of "software" you buy, what you actually buy is a usage license, and you thereby adhere to any limitations imposed by the developer. You've said several times that with retail discs you are "free", but you're far from free. |
From the context and what has been said by others and me, it is clear that the point is that with a retail copy you have rights that you do not have with Steam games. You can resell the game and by that also the right to use the disc's content, you can desroy the disc, gift it, whatever... trythat with a Steam game.
Nobody here said that you have the full right to its content because it is common knowledge that you don't. It is the same with a car: You pay for it, you can make changes to the engine or other parts, resell it... whatever. You do not, however, have the right to the parts or desing of the car as in "you are the absolute owner". You cannot disassemble the engine, for example, and use these parts to create something new as there are patent rights in the way. It's the same with software: Nobody can prevent me from modding a game or software. My rights as the owner stop where it comes to disassembling. You still have far more rights as the owner of a retail copy as you have with a pure digital copy or a retail one that is bound to an online service, a kind of hybrid system, or an incomplete retail game if you want. Take Starcraft 2, for example. Without a battle.net account, the discs merely serve as decoration on a cupboard. Adding to that, Blizzard actively bans accounts for using third party cheats. Steam could and can do the same.
Mr. Kowalski here tries to convince us that such behaviour, without compensation for people who cannot access their games any longer, is not possible, while it clearly is. And nobody prevents Valve from changing and/or enforcing their terms of service. If they change their terms, and you disagree, you can say goodbye to your "purchased" games. This cannot happen with retail games, as long as they are not bound to an online service.
@JK82:
This is the nature of digital distribution. Show us where it states that once you buy a key you have the eternal right to use it. You have it as long as the terms to which you agreed are in effect. If they change so does your right. This is why a lot of people got angry because of that GOG pr stunt: Suddenly they feared all their purchased games were gone. This can happen to Steam, too, and then you will be standing there, with possibly a lot of cash lost as in: You can no longer play the games because your account got deleted. On which basis, do you think, you can claim damages? This is why many people speak of renting, not purchasing games over Steam.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 15:34 Post subject: |
|
|
@OLime
I am done discussing with you. First you come to this thread complaining how Valve hasn't done anything for ages and suggesting all they did was steal ideas and buy developers and modders. Apart from the fact that this has nothing to do with this thread (which is about Steam as a service that is friendly to the developers, not about Valve as a developer) you've been proven by others how ridiculous those statements were. Then you switched to complaining about the legal side of Steam. And again you showed your ignorance by saying multiple times that you don't really own games on Steam (contrary to retail games), that you only rent games on Steam and now you compare a software license to a car (which is beyond incompetent - for a lawyer). You also throw some random court ruling which proves nothing anyone here was arguing against.
Long story short: discussing with you is a waste of time. You are either a troll or a really incompetent lawyer (which is not that uncommon). Either way - BYE.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 16:35 Post subject: |
|
|
Hating on Steam is so 2004.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 17:30 Post subject: |
|
|
| OLime wrote: | | From the context and what has been said by others and me, it is clear that the point is that with a retail copy you have rights that you do not have with Steam games. You can resell the game and by that also the right to use the disc's content, you can desroy the disc, gift it, whatever... trythat with a Steam game. |
Erm, no you can't. In most cases you're not even legally allowed to sell the disc to someone else, and especially not your license to use it. Want proof? Read the EULAs that come with Windows, Adobe and so on.
Want a game example? I just grabbed a random one off my shelf (the original Max Payne, mad random picking skills yo ). At the end it has a "Limited software warranty and license agreement". Now, this is a very short one in fact. It has 4 sections:
1. Grant of limited non-exclusive license
2. Intellectual property ownership
3. Software backup or archiving
4. Restrictions
With the exception of #3, all three other sections explicitly state (and I quote): "The SOFTWARE and ACCOMPANYING MATERIALS may not be sold, rented, loaned or otherwise transferred to any other individual or entity". That's nothing special, almost every piece of commercial software has this line. Just like every single EULA also states that you're not allowed to reverse engineer or disassemble the software.
You also handily ignore the fact that everything that comes out these days has some form of online activation, release date check, whatever. That applies to retail discs just the same.
Honestly, anyone with any knowledge of copyright law knows this. Fuck, I've had 3 bloody courses about this in my education so that I know what rights I have to software I write. I study Software Engineering, but this part of the law has been drilled into us so that we can protect ourselves.
Stop acting as if you're a master on the law, because this part clearly is new to you. Retail discs give you 0 extra rights, as their EULAs are pretty much identical as those for digital games, and have been for more than a decade. In fact, the whole usage license + you can't resell it has been around for more than even two decades. The ONLY difference is that with these digital forms it is a lot HARDER to do so because they can actively prevent you from doing it - but selling your retail copy to someone else is just as illegal. I'll be happy to grab games from the early 90's even even late 80's, pretty sure the booklets that came with my "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" states the same shit in its EULA.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 23:10 Post subject: |
|
|
| pwerelds wrote: |
Erm, no you can't. In most cases you're not even legally allowed to sell the disc to someone else, and especially not your license to use it. Want proof? Read the EULAs that come with Windows, Adobe and so on. |
This is wrong. Nobody can prevent you from selling a disc you bought, just like with an audio cd or a book or something similar. This is so obvious that it astonishes me that you write something like that. The whole used slaes market on eBay, Gamestop, heck, every single street market were illegal. How do you explain that?
And let me tell you another little anecdote: I have worked for the German parliament for some time during my studies, and during that had to recheck their contracts with Microsoft. MS clealry forbade the folks their to make backup copies, despite the written law allowing everybody to make backup copies if necessary. They just didn't care about German copyright law. And you have to take into consideration that these EULAs are made for several markets with different laws. What is possible in the USA, e.g., might go against EU law. You could also sell your Steam account if you wanted to, just like thousands of people do with their WoW accounts. Of course Blizzard tries to prevent this with their EULA but they have no legal possibility to prevent you from ebaying your account. Their are court rulings that explicitely allow the sale of software discs only that this does not make much sense where some kind of account is needed. As long as the majroity of games does not need Steam, Uplay or similar services and only has disc checks and the like, nobody can prevent you from selling this stuff.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maus0r
Posts: 424
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010 23:36 Post subject: |
|
|
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Can somebody please close this thread? Round, and round, and round, and round in bloody cirlces. Give it up, ffs.
Olime: You're not impressing anybody with your 'credentials', in fact the longer you go on in the face of overwhelming and intelligent counters to your claims, the more ridiculous you look. It's obvious to any outsider looking at this thread. I read the whole thing, every word of every post objectively, and it is apparent to even my non-lawyer brain... IT'S OVER.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 4th Mar 2011 12:04 Post subject: |
|
|
More Steam love from Introversion: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/03/introversion-its-unlikely-that-well-work-with-microsoft-again/
| Quote: | “Do we regret working with Microsoft?” said Morris. “No, but it’s unlikely we’ll work with them again … they make you work harder on the production value, but they don’t back it up with sales.”
Referring to the Xbox Live Arcade ports of Darwinia and Multiwinia, Morris remarked: “XBLA were good to us and put us in the deal of the week, but it had no impact. Steam promotion was an order of magnitude better.” |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2011 20:16 Post subject: |
|
|
Not about Steam, but DD in general.. Paradox says:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/06/paradox-sales-are-90-digital-we-don%E2%80%99t-really-need-retailers-any-more-says-ceo/
| Quote: | Wester told us that “this year we’re close to ninety percent of our revenue being digital. Retail sales are like a bonus for us now. We don’t really need retailers any more and that is a release because retailers have not been good for the industry. They’ve not been good for the creative part of the industry, for finding new cool games.”
“People complain to publishers that there are only sequels on the market, but that’s because retailers want to see sequels, because they can do their chart diagrams for how things sell and things like that. So one of the things preventing more creative gaming has been the retail challenge.” |
| Quote: | | Wester told us that Steam is Paradox’ main partner, followed by Gamersgate. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
Last edited by consolitis on Wed, 6th Jul 2011 20:22; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2011 20:23 Post subject: |
|
|
^ I edited my post (removed that part) 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 7th Jul 2011 00:54 Post subject: |
|
|
It's kind of funny because on the one side you have all the guys bashing Steam and DD in general. There's rumours, flat out lies, bad assumptions and wishes but not much fact against Steam. At the same time devs are loving it. I'm convinced. Steam and DD is saving PC-gaming as we speak. We will be seeing more PC oriented games in a year or two. The problem at the moment is that most projects are already heavily invested into console-gaming and it takes time to redirect resources. It's like turning that oil tanker. It takes time but it's gaining momentum steadily.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Thu, 7th Jul 2011 00:59 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | What do you mean pirated ? If you pirated a game then you don't have it on your Steam account, so they don't know that you have it. |
I pirated Dawn of War and Defense Grid before I bought them. I remember getting steam achievements attached to my account before purchase. They might be able to check who has steam achievements for games they don't own.
intel ultra 7 265k, 64gb ram, 3070
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 3 of 6 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
 |
|
