"Jews in malmö are being pushed out, by you guessed it, muslims"
What the shit is he talking about, I'm still here and I'll stay here til I see fit to leave.
Ohhh wait, according to his logic I'm not a real jew then... -.-
i really used to like pat condell, before he went all out right-wing nationalist. His reasoning has really suffered. Maybe beginning alzheimers?
No idea if he is a nationalist or not, but his reasoning sounds perfectly clear from here.
well, he used to make light fun of theists. Then he started to get more and more riled up about muslims until he started to make dishonest arguments pro nationalist organisations and actions. For me that is a change in reasoning. Or maybe in the beginning his attitude just didnt shine through enough, i dont know. Can't stand to watch his videos anymore, because of his right-wing nazi bullshit. As an atheist i feel offended that he is one of the more prominent figures of new atheism and how he throws away all credibility by going in bed with nationalists, when we could really need another voice of reason in the debate.
So him complaining (rightfully) against Islamization of Europe makes him nationalist or nazi? He has also complained against Christianity, but that is OK because Christians are not a minority in Europe? I have not seen one video of his that shows him as nationalist.
So him complaining (rightfully) against Islamization of Europe makes him nationalist or nazi? He has also complained against Christianity, but that is OK because Christians are not a minority in Europe? I have not seen one video of his that shows him as nationalist.
yes, islamization is bad. But the way he portrays "facts" or the groups he endorses sometimes are highly quesitonable. If you dont want to take my assessment at face value i can go dig out some of the response videos by coughlan616 and other youtubers to pat condell on the issues.
in the above video he begins with some rhethoric about the once great swedish people. And that they may be great in the future again. Which is one of the hallmarks of nationalist thinking (as if being citizen of a nation was equal to a certain ethnicity / dna-strain / culture, and not being of that culture couldnt make you a swede => see "true scotsman fallacy").
Also, the allegations put forth in the video are all arguments heavily used by right-wing nationalist and represent the pinnacle of islamophobic arguments. And when in bed with nazis rhethoric-wise i usually get a bad feeling. Because fear and hate have never been good paths to solutions, but rather only to more problems.
So him complaining (rightfully) against Islamization of Europe makes him nationalist or nazi? He has also complained against Christianity, but that is OK because Christians are not a minority in Europe? I have not seen one video of his that shows him as nationalist.
In europe theres so many people who are afraid of speaking out against islam, and when someone does so publically theres usually an outrage.
Usually it's the people who consider themselves to be open minded and "laid back" who quickly jump out of their chairs and cry bloody murder.
I generally find it really funny to witness the hypocracy.
//above statement isn't about pat condell or his videos but about the islamization in europe and the reactions.
Well, to be honest, I have not been following Pat Condell, the man, to know what parties or organizations he endorses, I just happen to share his views on religion in general. He has mainly protested against Christianity (and Catholicism in particular) and recently, Islamization of Europe and the ridiculous politically correct bullshit. And I happen to agree with these views. Seeing as how Islamic immigrants have brought down quality of life, and even pushing for Sharia Law, I don't see this as nationality but rather defense and preservation no less.
And the sad truth is, that right-wing nationalism usually rises as a defense mechanism when people have had enough. That is what right-wing nutters prey on, the weakness, fear and doubt in people's heart. And I fear that if a change to the current political correctness and "tolerance" does not come, people might resort to nationalism out of desperation.
true, leo. But thats the reason why i brought it up. Because the more one gets in bed with the right-wing, the further we are away from working solutions.
and at the moment we are in a stress field of both islamization and islamophobia being bad. And pat condell has no solutions to offer apart from hate as far as a see it.
I think this rightwing populist rhetoric is the nazism of the 21st century. Pat Condell doesn't sound particularly radical to me. Maybe because this kind of anti-islam gibberish is very popular nowadays in Holland. It has become perfectly fine to say that islam and nazism are exactly alike. It's what people talk about when they're having coffee.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
Hey, remember that scene from Schindler's list where the kids were going "Goodbye Jews!" and waiving them away, that's what haters will be doing when they send all the muslims to "happy"camps, quickly followed by jews and homos... o.O
true, leo. But thats the reason why i brought it up. Because the more one gets in bed with the right-wing, the further we are away from working solutions.
and at the moment we are in a stress field of both islamization and islamophobia being bad. And pat condell has no solutions to offer apart from hate as far as a see it.
Well the rightwing dudes have got a solution. Their solution would be to remove the muslims from Europe and bring them back to where they came from (mostly northern Africa and the Middle East.)
So technically that would qualify as a solution. Whether one likes that solution is a different matter.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
@Lutzifer What is the solution though? I am at a loss too. Who has the solutions? One cannot expect immigrants to be lifted and kicked out. The only solution I see is to not enable them to have their way, as they do now. But I don't see this happening either. :\
To be honest, myself, I have gotten very intolerant of religion in the last year. But not any particular religion, not Islamophobia, but religion in general; the stupidity attached to it, the evil, the uncertainty. Religion in general in the world is going into its darkest period, and I don't want to be dragged with it. But this is where we a re going. You can see this in all religions (that matter ) - they become more and more intolerant of science, of truth, of logic; anyone who does not agree with their primitive views is immediately a blasphemer and is an enemy to their religion; suddenly teaching basic math is now considered somehow against religion, because if kids know 3+3*3=12 then they are eating from the forbidden apple? (This is from local religious nutcases here, not wanting to teach basic knowledge to children in religious schools, funded by the government!) I am honestly getting more and more frustrated. So how long before start thinking that the only solution is the militant one? And how long before others start thinking like that? I am terrified, and yet I can totally see myself going that road if things don't change. Sorry for the honesty.
In before we get a preaching from ChinUp about how religion is not about what others say religions is.
"Jews in malmö are being pushed out, by you guessed it, muslims"
What the shit is he talking about, I'm still here and I'll stay here til I see fit to leave.
Ohhh wait, according to his logic I'm not a real jew then... -.-
I guess you missed the fact that synagogues in Malmö and faithful jews have been harassed by muslim youth the last couple of years.
"Jews in malmö are being pushed out, by you guessed it, muslims"
What the shit is he talking about, I'm still here and I'll stay here til I see fit to leave.
Ohhh wait, according to his logic I'm not a real jew then... -.-
Can you safely walk with a yarmulka on your head through the muslim neighbourhoods? Didn't think so...
"Jews in malmö are being pushed out, by you guessed it, muslims"
What the shit is he talking about, I'm still here and I'll stay here til I see fit to leave.
Ohhh wait, according to his logic I'm not a real jew then... -.-
Can you safely walk with a yarmulka on your head through the muslim neighbourhoods? Didn't think so...
I can try, although mine doesn't fit anymore and I'm not really religious to start off with...
And I've seen rabbis walking about in central city, dunno if they've been harassed since I didn't talk to them.
Watch the video. I know it's in German, but my German teacher once told me that Swedes can understand German if spoken slowly lol
Then your teacher is a big fat liar...it's a completely different language.
Now, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish are like that and the Finnish are well, I have no idea what the fuck they're saying since they sound like drunk Hungarians when they speak.
Last edited by Mr.Tinkles on Thu, 2nd Dec 2010 22:40; edited 1 time in total
Also, the allegations put forth in the video are all arguments heavily used by right-wing nationalist and represent the pinnacle of islamophobic arguments.
Ah, guilt-by-association. Just because some right-wing racist ultra-nationalists borrow the arguments doesn't make it any less valid. This is a thinking trap. "Oh, if racists think that, I can't think that because that would make me racist even if the opinion isn't racist in itself and I don't want to be branded racist."
Unfortunately, while Pat Condell exaggerates and make it sound like Sweden is like Iraq, most of what he's saying and claiming is based on reality, pulled to it's conclusion with a forceful monologue. The polarization in Sweden is strong, you're simply not allowed to criticize Islam since that is seen as an attack of the muslim people and will get you bombed by criticism and accusations of being racist. We have a majority of people that wouldn't care if Lars Vilks (made some drawings of muhammed) was assassinated since they think that he brought it onto himself. Absolutely no support for freedom of speech and expression or freedom from religion, just a subconscious fear of Islam. It's like these people acknowledge Islam will grow and they don't want to become victims, thus making sure they don't annoy the muslim population, all in the name of "tolerance" which is a tragic joke.
It's blind tolerance towards strong intolerance, a self-defeating stance that will let intolerance from Islam take over. When the "mayor" of Malmö indirectly defends islamism and turns a blind eye towards anti-semitism, the picture should be fairly clear.
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(This is from local religious nutcases here, not wanting to teach basic knowledge to children in religious schools, funded by the government!) I am honestly getting more and more frustrated. So how long before start thinking that the only solution is the militant one? And how long before others start thinking like that? I am terrified, and yet I can totally see myself going that road if things don't change. Sorry for the honesty.
