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TSR69
Banned
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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 Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 01:57 Post subject: The future of piracy |
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Wanted to start this thread long time ago but tonight is the night.
This post/thread will be speculative of course.
Providers blocking sites/content
Lately a trial in the Netherlands 'BREIN versus Ziggo' had an outcome that Ziggo shouldn't have to block their clients to 'The Pirate Bay website' since it would censor the internet still the judge said that BREIN should warn individual users that they are pirating.
Meaning Ziggo can be forced to hand over the privacy details of some of their clients to BREIN.
BREIN can't lose that way they get the info of pirates on a platter but as they stated earlier they will no longer target individual users with lawsuits.
So another outcome is that in the future pirates will get censored by their ISP so they can no longer visit certain sites.
What will the future bring?
Looking at the EU legislation that has to be implemented sooner or later, the future looks even more brim.
Maybe it becomes time for P2P clients without centralised servers, the traffic gets tunnelled through VPN proxies in a country with digital freedom and all clients also function as a server for others (search and distributing services).
Optionally you can run it without a VPN but then you can be marked without compromising the VPN users.
Obviously the encryption should be strong enough to withstand 'deep packet inspection' or de-encryption methods.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 02:26 Post subject: |
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shut one thing down and something else will take its place
it's like the war on drugs
as long as there is a demand, there will be supply
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Ronhrin
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 02:49 Post subject: |
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| 8ball wrote: | shut one thing down and something else will take its place
it's like the war on drugs
as long as there is a demand, there will be supply |
And with time harsh criminalization of it, in 20 years it is very possible that internet piracy gets the same criminal treatment that drug traffic has on present day.
Goverments need to control everything, and the internet is the big headache goverments currently face, it is no secret that most news media sources are influenced one way or another by their respective goverments in the type of information they air.
The exponential growth on internet popularity is making people turning more into it as a honest source of unbiased raw news where people can comment upon events and unify according to beliefs and perspectives.
You can see for example what happened recently to the founder of WikiLeaks, some 2 weeks ago, you saw on some news outlets that he was being charged with allegations of rape, allegations that were denied a couple of days later, when you see this type of news, you clearly understand that someone is merely attempting to discredit the man and damaging his image.
Goverments have been increansingly focus on a way to control and censor the whole internet, and at the rate we're going that might actually happen sooner or later.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 03:09 Post subject: |
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Perhaps in time they will wise up, as they did with the alcohol prohibition. If you ask me, drug legalization is something that will solve a huge portion of the world's crime also, but that's just too big of a step for America. 
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 03:37 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Perhaps in time they will wise up, as they did with the alcohol prohibition. If you ask me, drug legalization is something that will solve a huge portion of the world's crime also, but that's just too big of a step for America. |
On that we do agree, I make no secret about where I stand politically as you already know, and in my view, the aggressive punishment and/or incarceration of anything that is not aggression itself is just ridiculous, immoral and the true cause of the greatest problems in society.
A rapist, pedophile, murderer, etc has initiated an act of violence which should be responded with some harsher punishment such as prison.
A drug dealer is merely providing a service that has demand, that's why even with illegal status it is one of the most profitable business in existence.
Some may say that dealing drug to kids is an act of violence and aggression, but we have to understand the real reason why this happens, this only happens because drugs are illegal and drug dealers find it easier to profit on the long term if they target kids.
If drugs weren't subject of such over the top illegal status, it would be a profitable business model just as alcohol and tobacco currently is, and only be allowed to be sold to people over 18.
People who want to do drugs will always to drugs, but instead of purchasing a pure product from a company that has to be subject to some regulatory system, people are purchasing pure crap that in the long term will damage their body in far greater ways than a pure drug would.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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TSR69
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 03:49 Post subject: |
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| iconized wrote: | Ronhrin, you were a WoW player right?
Where was that latest WoW discussion on this board again  |
WoW?
I hate WoW...
And what does WoW have to do with this discussion?
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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TSR69
Banned
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Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 03:54 Post subject: |
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ehh WoW causes this topic to go completely off topic
Formerly known as iconized
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Nalo
nothing
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 04:08 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 07:03; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 06:53 Post subject: |
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The future of piracy is where child porn is today.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 09:34 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | A drug dealer is merely providing a service that has demand, that's why even with illegal status it is one of the most profitable business in existence.
Some may say that dealing drug to kids is an act of violence and aggression, but we have to understand the real reason why this happens, this only happens because drugs are illegal and drug dealers find it easier to profit on the long term if they target kids.
If drugs weren't subject of such over the top illegal status, it would be a profitable business model just as alcohol and tobacco currently is, and only be allowed to be sold to people over 18.
People who want to do drugs will always to drugs, but instead of purchasing a pure product from a company that has to be subject to some regulatory system, people are purchasing pure crap that in the long term will damage their body in far greater ways than a pure drug would. |
And alcohol and tobacco aren't sold to ppl under 18 
I disagree. Sure you could legalize 'easy' drugs, but what about the heavy ones like heroin?
The problem with drugs is that they change the brain chemistry, whereas alcohol and tobacco only damage the brain in a way that's causing addiction (I'm not talking about the effects on liver and lungs here). The drugs really change brain chemistry in a big way. And that can really change ppl.
By legalizing that you risk of generating ppl who became unable to function properly in society. With that you would have to provide them with free rehab, because you (the government) have made the drugs available in the first place. And I haven't heard of ppl who 'just once tried heroin and then stopped'. Even ppl who have been in rehab usually goes back.
You would get a huge amount of new social cases which would only leech the money out of the system. There just isn't a perfect way to do that.
Another thing is: Who do you think would supply the drugs to the state? Nice hard working ppl in the field all day on the sun, or the narco bosses that already have their operations?
That way they (and they are just great and lovely ppl, no?) would have the control of drugs - to the state and the other way (because illegal use wouldn't just magically stop because you can get sth legally at much higher prices). They would have the massive incomes, and we know that ppl who can make state own them (like bankers) are usually the ones who control the laws of the state and in the end the state itself.
So massive no on that one.
As for piracy. I think, and this is of course my personal opinion, that it arose partly because ppl didn't have the money to buy most of the games, and games industry has really sunk low imo. There are some good games, but I have yet to see some game that made me want to spend money on (ok maybe Portal 2  ).
You cannot expect to get money from shitty product. Devs these days are oriented more on how to make more money (in a way I really can't blame them, they have to eat and upgrade their business so that they could stay in the competition), instead of making a really great and memorable gaming experience.
So piracy will never stop imo. It will evolve, coping with new ways to kill it 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 10:16 Post subject: |
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The future of piracy = the past of piracy: never ending, just changing channels.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 11:05 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: |
The problem with drugs is that they change the brain chemistry, whereas alcohol and tobacco only damage the brain in a way that's causing addiction (I'm not talking about the effects on liver and lungs here). The drugs really change brain chemistry in a big way. And that can really change ppl. |
Is this oversimplified bullshit day? How can you think addiction isn't a change in the brain chemistry? Nikotin is insanely addicting and very bad for your health! To my knowledge most psychedelics haven't even been proved bad for your health at all! Do to stupid laws it is however tough to make real thorough experiments.
| dingo_d wrote: |
By legalizing that you risk of generating ppl who became unable to function properly in society. With that you would have to provide them with free rehab, because you (the government) have made the drugs available in the first place. And I haven't heard of ppl who 'just once tried heroin and then stopped'. Even ppl who have been in rehab usually goes back. |
Do you know anyone who tried heroin? Do you visit boards where drug use is discussed? Lots of people can function properly while still smoking herion once a month.
| dingo_d wrote: |
You would get a huge amount of new social cases which would only leech the money out of the system. There just isn't a perfect way to do that.
Another thing is: Who do you think would supply the drugs to the state? Nice hard working ppl in the field all day on the sun, or the narco bosses that already have their operations?
That way they (and they are just great and lovely ppl, no?) would have the control of drugs - to the state and the other way (because illegal use wouldn't just magically stop because you can get sth legally at much higher prices). They would have the massive incomes, and we know that ppl who can make state own them (like bankers) are usually the ones who control the laws of the state and in the end the state itself. |
And right now we have people in jail for possesion and other small stuff.
Much better! Farmers in Afghanistan makes insane amounts of opium. Why wouldn't they sell to the government instead of criminal lords?
I would guess normal people would by legal drugs if they are provided. Maybe some would buy illegal instead but wouldn't that be the same people who are doing it now?
Piracy: Aren't times getting better? If I am not mistaken Brein wont sue for personal use anymore. That is start. So atleast the every day pirate wont have problems.
The three strikes policy wont hold either. To many government services is only available on the internet, or is much cheaper online.
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Frant
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 11:29 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | dingo_d wrote: |
The problem with drugs is that they change the brain chemistry, whereas alcohol and tobacco only damage the brain in a way that's causing addiction (I'm not talking about the effects on liver and lungs here). The drugs really change brain chemistry in a big way. And that can really change ppl. |
Is this oversimplified bullshit day? How can you think addiction isn't a change in the brain chemistry? Nikotin is insanely addicting and very bad for your health! To my knowledge most psychedelics haven't even been proved bad for your health at all! Do to stupid laws it is however tough to make real thorough experiments. |
Are you on drugs?
What are you talking about? Nicotine is a toxin, but the change in chemistry is mainly the serotonin one. I never said it wasn't a change in brain chem. It's been proven that LSD and Ex damages the brain tissue (besides the addiction one).
| Atropa wrote: |
| dingo_d wrote: |
By legalizing that you risk of generating ppl who became unable to function properly in society. With that you would have to provide them with free rehab, because you (the government) have made the drugs available in the first place. And I haven't heard of ppl who 'just once tried heroin and then stopped'. Even ppl who have been in rehab usually goes back. |
Do you know anyone who tried heroin? Do you visit boards where drug use is discussed? Lots of people can function properly while still smoking herion once a month. |
Actually I know some. My mothers cousin is an ex drug addict, and while he seems normal he really isn't quite. Plus I know some ppl who went to rehab only to go back on drugs right after. In my middle school I had friends who 'just tried' almost every drug (from pot and crushing dozen diazepam pills to heavy stuff like cocain, LSD etc.). Most of them quit, and now work some heavy and shitty paid job (life is just peachy for them ).
I have a friend from middle school who is so fried that he barely recognize ppl he grew up with. Talk about no effects
| Atropa wrote: |
| dingo_d wrote: |
You would get a huge amount of new social cases which would only leech the money out of the system. There just isn't a perfect way to do that.
Another thing is: Who do you think would supply the drugs to the state? Nice hard working ppl in the field all day on the sun, or the narco bosses that already have their operations?
That way they (and they are just great and lovely ppl, no?) would have the control of drugs - to the state and the other way (because illegal use wouldn't just magically stop because you can get sth legally at much higher prices). They would have the massive incomes, and we know that ppl who can make state own them (like bankers) are usually the ones who control the laws of the state and in the end the state itself. |
And right now we have people in jail for possesion and other small stuff.
Much better! Farmers in Afghanistan makes insane amounts of opium. Why wouldn't they sell to the government instead of criminal lords?
I would guess normal people would by legal drugs if they are provided. Maybe some would buy illegal instead but wouldn't that be the same people who are doing it now? |
Ppl in jail for possessing small amounts of pot is stupid, I agree. But I would put idiots who give (sell) drugs to kids, without thinking.
About ppl in Afghan: How would they sell the opium to the government if their country is in turmoil?
My statement was: you couldn't grow it normally, because there are already a bunch of drug lords. Even if there was a country in which growing/producing drugs would be legal, you couldn't do shit because you'd have to give a big cut to the bigger fish or you'd get killed. Look at drug wars in Colombia. They are killing each other (drug lords). Imagine how would they react to some poor schmuck trying to make honest living out of it.
| Atropa wrote: |
Piracy: Aren't times getting better? If I am not mistaken Brein wont sue for personal use anymore. That is start. So atleast the every day pirate wont have problems.
The three strikes policy wont hold either. To many government services is only available on the internet, or is much cheaper online. |
I don't know how the law is where you live, but here it's not that big, mostly because the net coverage is shit...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 11:32 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | dingo_d wrote: |
The problem with drugs is that they change the brain chemistry, whereas alcohol and tobacco only damage the brain in a way that's causing addiction (I'm not talking about the effects on liver and lungs here). The drugs really change brain chemistry in a big way. And that can really change ppl. |
Is this oversimplified bullshit day? How can you think addiction isn't a change in the brain chemistry? Nikotin is insanely addicting and very bad for your health! To my knowledge most psychedelics haven't even been proved bad for your health at all! Do to stupid laws it is however tough to make real thorough experiments.
| dingo_d wrote: |
By legalizing that you risk of generating ppl who became unable to function properly in society. With that you would have to provide them with free rehab, because you (the government) have made the drugs available in the first place. And I haven't heard of ppl who 'just once tried heroin and then stopped'. Even ppl who have been in rehab usually goes back. |
Do you know anyone who tried heroin? Do you visit boards where drug use is discussed? Lots of people can function properly while still smoking herion once a month.
| dingo_d wrote: |
You would get a huge amount of new social cases which would only leech the money out of the system. There just isn't a perfect way to do that.
Another thing is: Who do you think would supply the drugs to the state? Nice hard working ppl in the field all day on the sun, or the narco bosses that already have their operations?
That way they (and they are just great and lovely ppl, no?) would have the control of drugs - to the state and the other way (because illegal use wouldn't just magically stop because you can get sth legally at much higher prices). They would have the massive incomes, and we know that ppl who can make state own them (like bankers) are usually the ones who control the laws of the state and in the end the state itself. |
And right now we have people in jail for possesion and other small stuff.
Much better! Farmers in Afghanistan makes insane amounts of opium. Why wouldn't they sell to the government instead of criminal lords?
I would guess normal people would by legal drugs if they are provided. Maybe some would buy illegal instead but wouldn't that be the same people who are doing it now?
Piracy: Aren't times getting better? If I am not mistaken Brein wont sue for personal use anymore. That is start. So atleast the every day pirate wont have problems.
The three strikes policy wont hold either. To many government services is only available on the internet, or is much cheaper online. |
QFT!
The legalisation of all drugs is something we will see in the next 25 years or so. The war on drugs is not working and puts very poor farmers out of business with no livelihood.
Legalisation and regulation is the way to go, we just need to spend as much as we do on the teaching children about the dangers of drink as we do on the dangers of drugs.
Why oh why countries spend billions on "trying" to prevent the misuse of drugs when they could garner trillions in taxes on all narcotics every year is completely beyond me.
And finally, dingo, i have a friend who just this week has finished his prescription of subutex (a heroin substitute) after a year of being on it. He was capable of functioning normally, having a pretty respectable job, while smoking 40 quid a days worth of heroin.
| Cohen wrote: | I'm a troll! well done, you caught me lying my ass off on a forum. I post pictures so that it makes you angry and that you wish you could have my awesome material things  |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 11:49 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: |
Are you on drugs?
What are you talking about? Nicotine is a toxin, but the change in chemistry is mainly the serotonin one. I never said it wasn't a change in brain chem. It's been proven that LSD and Ex damages the brain tissue (besides the addiction one). |
Some painkillers but nothing to serious 
I may be misinformed but to my knowledge LSD is one of the safest drugs ever! It has no sign of physical addiction what so ever. The same goes for mescalin, lsa and dmt. If you have links then do share.
| dingo_d wrote: |
Actually I know some. My mothers cousin is an ex drug addict, and while he seems normal he really isn't quite. Plus I know some ppl who went to rehab only to go back on drugs right after. In my middle school I had friends who 'just tried' almost every drug (from pot and crushing dozen diazepam pills to heavy stuff like cocain, LSD etc.). Most of them quit, and now work some heavy and shitty paid job (life is just peachy for them ).
I have a friend from middle school who is so fried that he barely recognize ppl he grew up with. Talk about no effects |
I didn't say it does not have any effect. As with everything else if you over do it, it wil suck in the end. I myself both know people who know how to use drugs and s0me who don't. I can't see why stupid people should limit my choices. Further more with the people I know who fucked up, it wasn't really because of the drugs. They would have found something else to temporarily fuck them up instead. Point beeing, stupid people do stupid shit no matter what.
| dingo_d wrote: |
Ppl in jail for possessing small amounts of pot is stupid, I agree. But I would put idiots who give (sell) drugs to kids, without thinking.
About ppl in Afghan: How would they sell the opium to the government if their country is in turmoil?
My statement was: you couldn't grow it normally, because there are already a bunch of drug lords. Even if there was a country in which growing/producing drugs would be legal, you couldn't do shit because you'd have to give a big cut to the bigger fish or you'd get killed. Look at drug wars in Colombia. They are killing each other (drug lords). Imagine how would they react to some poor schmuck trying to make honest living out of it.
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There were some quite nasty fellows back when alcohol was illegal. Legalizing worked out pretty well I think. I can't see why that shouldn't be possible again.
The point of Afghanistan was that it is ordinary people growing opium, so it should be possible to make them work legal.
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Frant
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 12:02 Post subject: |
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| Atropa wrote: | | I may be misinformed but to my knowledge LSD is one of the safest drugs ever! It has no sign of physical addiction what so ever. The same goes for mescalin, lsa and dmt. If you have links then do share. |
That's the delusion of a drug romantic. The life long psychological damage that can be incurred by a single time use of a strong hallucinogen has been proven.
But any junkie/druggie/dopehead/etc. will go into defensive mode when someone criticise their precious drugs.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 12:05 Post subject: |
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I am against it because ppl really can't control themselves.
I think we aren't really ready for things like that. Just my opinion...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 12:31 Post subject: |
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I didn't call YOU personally a junkie though, I have no idea what your drug habits are.
I have plenty of acquaintances and witnesses to temporary and permanent damage from various drug use. There are people that have taken various hallucinogenics that have permanent damage to their visual center (HPPD) resulting in constant patterns/disturbances with their eyesight. Add to that chronic depression/anxiety/personality changes and you get my drift. We're talking stuff that can permanently change your brain chemistry and alter your personality.
| Quote: | HPPD: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder- HPPD is the experience of long term visual problems caused by taking psychedelics. There is no accurate percentage of users who experience HPPD after using hallucinogens, but Erowid believes it to be less than 5%. HPPD can occur after a single use of a psychedelic drug and often does, which leads some people to believe that there is a genetic predisposition for it.
We all occasionally experience visual garbage, weird blobs of color, grainy or pixellated vision, dust and other debris on the eyes, and other weird experiences. For some of us, the use of psychedelics makes us a little bit more aware of this visual "noise". This is not the same thing as HPPD.
HPPD is thought to be when the visual cortex of the brain no longer has the ability to sort the garbage out. It is only considered HPPD when normal life is hindered by the perceptual changes.
There isn't much you can do to protect yourself from HPPD. Beyond watching for the early symptoms, and using infrequently; it is mostly a game of Russian Roulette. Fortunately, most people eventually recover from it within six months to a year and a half. Sadly, some never do. |
What ignited my activity here was the callous disregard of actual risks with taking drugs. Governments will exaggerate the risks while the erowid-crew will say most drugs are safe. In reality psycho-active substances can be very dangerous and the risks should not be ignored or smoothed over as you are doing, and that's why I said drug-romantics (users that defend drugs and the usage of them) give off an air of being delusional in their defence of the usage.
| Atropa wrote: | | As long as you are well prepared and have some general knowledge of what you are going into, LSD will hardly be a problem. |
Not for the majority perhaps, but enough individuals will have quality of life affected in negative ways that it shouldn't be pushed under the carpet.
That said, some people can handle psychedelics better than others. Unfortunately human curiosity gets the best of most people.
Obviously strong drugs like heroin (and any other strong opiate that affects our reward system like it) are a lot worse as far as long term damage, suffering and 3rd party negative effects are concerned.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ronhrin
Banned
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Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 12:41 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: | I am against it because ppl really can't control themselves.
I think we aren't really ready for things like that. Just my opinion... |
I certainly agree with that, the thing is, that is a universal truth!
It is irrelevant if drugs are free or illegal, people will always use them!
The thing is, by making them illegal you are forcefully criminalizing one aspect of society which will not disappear, by criminalizing it you are demanding coercive and aggressive action against every aspect of the drug trade, which is just illogical and immoral considering the simple fact that people choose to do drugs willingly, and the only thing you can do is educate people about the harms of drugs, force is never the answer.
Look at us, society is trying to make our activities on the internet being treated like a crime, and there are already some cases of actual jail time in the US and other countries for piracy.
And as mentioned before, nobody can really stop it because there is such high demand and we always find ways to circumvent the system.
You might say that piracy doesn't harm anyone, but it is very likely that because of companies losing their profit margins, people will end up being fired from their jobs, so as a matter of fact we are indirectly harming people in a different manner.
There are aspects of human civilization that will never disappear such as piracy, prostitution, drugs, etc.
The rational method of dealing with such issues is to regulate them through legal channels, not make it illegal and marginalized by society.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 13:16 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Perhaps in time they will wise up, as they did with the alcohol prohibition. If you ask me, drug legalization is something that will solve a huge portion of the world's crime also, but that's just too big of a step for America. |
yeah but come on theres got to be a line
what message do you send if you just legalize everything that is difficult to stop? legalize rape? legalize murder?
if theres no punihsment for dealing drugs then they just become more brazen... both the people selling it, people transporting it, people growing it, and people using it... just cant agree to legalizing drugs... itll make shit worse not better. |
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 13:36 Post subject: |
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How can you even bring up rape and murder in the same discussion as drug use? Seriously, that was just bad. It's like when homosexual marriage became legal in one American state (don't remember which one) and the homophobes said (and this is a quote, mind you) "Men marrying men? What's next, men marrying horses!?".
You do not directly hurt or harm anyone by sitting in your own home doing X for example - murdering or raping someone only has one outcome. You can do drugs all your life without doing one illegal thing - you can't murder someone without taking the other persons life.
I personally have never done any drugs whatsoever (except for alcohol), and yet I feel like things like maruijana that actually is growing naturally (and is not some dirty waste product like im sure some drugs are) shouldn't be illegal at all, even less punishable by jail just because Im in possesion of it.
I actually do believe that I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want to my own goddamn body, if somethings kills me slowly, then happy for me.
It's not like legalizing a drug would somehow give people free passes to do shit that is still illegal.
Watercooled 5950X | AORUS Master X570 | Asus RTX 3090 TUF Gaming OC | 64Gb RAM | 1Tb 970 Evo Plus + 2Tb 660p | etc etc
Last edited by _SiN_ on Thu, 26th Aug 2010 13:40; edited 1 time in total
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 13:39 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | iNatan wrote: | | Perhaps in time they will wise up, as they did with the alcohol prohibition. If you ask me, drug legalization is something that will solve a huge portion of the world's crime also, but that's just too big of a step for America. |
yeah but come on theres got to be a line
what message do you send if you just legalize everything that is difficult to stop? legalize rape? legalize murder?
if theres no punihsment for dealing drugs then they just become more brazen... both the people selling it, people transporting it, people growing it, and people using it... just cant agree to legalizing drugs... itll make shit worse not better. |
First you have to understand that murder and rape is something that happens to a much lesser extent than prostitution and drugs.
Then you are comparing two very distinct things, rape and murder is aggression against other people!
Drugs and prostitution concerns you and you alone!...
You cannot mixed everything on the same definition.
People should be free to do whatever they want without interfering with the freedom of others.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 13:49 Post subject: |
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my point isnt to equate drugs to rape and murder, its just to say that the way to deal with crime is not to make the act legal - its just silly.
agree.. people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesnt interfere to create a loss for others...
but drugs are not one of those things... and neither is piracy...
i mean how many people get high on drugs then rape and kill other people? how many people are killed in the name of selling drugs? not to mention pushing drugs to kids to get them hooked, before they are able to make their own sound choices? and leos solution is to just say fuck it and ignore the problem by legalizing drugs? how does that change the underlying problems of violence and suffering behind it?
im not saying the current situation is working in the case of drugs - far from it... but turning a blind eye and ignoring it by legalizing it, would make problems so much worse.
and yes, clearly im not a fan of drugs or drug users.... if they only ever did that shit behind closed doors and it NEVER effected the lives of others in any way, then that'd be fine with me... but thats just not the way it is....
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 14:07 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | my point isnt to equate drugs to rape and murder, its just to say that the way to deal with crime is not to make the act legal - its just silly. |
Crime is only a crime because someone marginalized it and criminalized it!
Drugs and Piracy are only considered crime because they go against the interests of political and economical institutions!
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Aug 2010 14:13 Post subject: |
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wait wait wait wait...
your saying crime is only crime because the politicians or businesses make it so, because it conflicts with their selfish interests? hard to tell if theres sarcasm in there....
so preventing drug related rapes and violence ISNT something that society as a whole would rather not have because it makes them feel less safe? or are you saying drug related rape is only illegal because it damages the profitability of the sex trade
crime is crime because it goes against the best interests of society as a whole, or against the rights of the property owners.
if someone makes a product that has equal worth in a digital form, they have the right to not have others own that product without monetary transactions for it.
you have the right to not have people walk into your house and steal all ur shit...
also this isnt a rant against piracy... i mean im a pirate sure, and that wont change any time soon... but im under no illusions about what i do.
Last edited by chiv on Thu, 26th Aug 2010 14:20; edited 1 time in total
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