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Frant
King's Bounty
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 Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:34 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: |
Frant .. am I mistaken that you described God as an intangible higher power as a justification for thinking all atheists don't believe in God ? How else can you justify thinking atheists cant believe in God apart from asserting God is a deity ie intangible higher power ? |
OMG... You obviously lack the capability to separate a theist and atheist.
The description of "God as an intangible higher power" isn't mine, it's how I perceive the faith of a believer, not that I personally believe God as an intangible higher power. That's just a definition, not a declaration that I actually believe in any gods or higher powers. Stop playing around with wordings and jump at the chance to turn and twist sentences to perpetuate your trolling.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:35 Post subject: |
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hey FM, we have come much further than usual. We now know that he is a pantheist. That is already a victory in and by itself imho 
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Frant
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:39 Post subject: |
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he fries the spaghetti monster in it, i guess |
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Nalo
nothing
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:39 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 07:12; edited 2 times in total
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ChinUp
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Frant
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:54 Post subject: |
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Again semantics and definitions. Very few would accept your definition of "god". To an atheist your "god" is simply an idea in your head and nothing that an atheist believes in or agrees with because then he/she would no longer be an atheist, he/she would be a pantheist if they bought your version.
I don't buy the abrahamic religions versions, I don't buy into pantheism or any other theism, to me God is just a word, nothing else.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:54 Post subject: |
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Sure thing, we now understand where you come from, but you also must understand that in here and in the majority of the world, when people say god, they mean the biblical crap, really no intentions to not co-exist with your beliefs, it is used as the biblical terms most of the time and you should not pick at anyone who mentions god as the biblical term BECAUSE YOU FUCKING DO IT EVERYTIME AND EVERYWHERE!!!
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:55 Post subject: |
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And for the thousands of time. WE ARE NOT BUYING INTO THE BULLSHIT OF THE CHURCH! We are rejecting it! Saying that the majority has a certain concept is an empirical observation, nothing more, nothing less.
And AGAIN, as long as you have not proven to us that your god is NOT IMAGINARY, then it is for all intents and purposes fictional. Logically, reasonably and practically. That makes my distinction of your comparison being fallacious true. Logically, reasonably and practically.
Claiming or believing that you think something is real, does not make it real.
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ChinUp
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 01:57 Post subject: |
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Lutzifer .. so your not buying into church crap about God when you assert God is only imagined ? Are you saying the church make out God is some real naturally occurring phenomena ? How could the church play God if they made out God was something real everyone can experience ?
The church needs people to think God is something out of reach in order to wield authority. The authority of the church is 100% based on peoples belief that without the church they can't access God.
Why do you think the church pumps it into peoples heads as soon as they can that God is some remote being the church speaks for ? If people thought God was something they could access whenever wherever the church would be out of a job.
Creating the illusion God is imaginary establishes the dependence on the church.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Last edited by ChinUp on Fri, 14th May 2010 02:04; edited 1 time in total
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:03 Post subject: |
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i do not assert or buy into church crap. As i have stated before. I do not make any claims and noone has been able to demonstrate. So i take it as FACT that no god exists as much as i take it as fact that no fairies and no santa claus exists. And most religions make god out to be something that can be subjectively experienced as long as you believe in it (as long as they have the final say in religious dogma, they coudlnt care less anyways). It does not change the facts though.
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ChinUp
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Nalo
nothing
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:08 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 07:12; edited 2 times in total
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ChinUp
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:11 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | I don't want to get too deep into this but, You are saying it depends how God is defined? I am speaking broader terms here; using the general opinion of God. We could go round in circles but I get your point. Im not sure it makes sense though, because by that logic, a person who believes that god is embodied in their gambling, would also be considered an atheist. Gambler = atheist = flaw |
A gambler would likely believe Luck is God. An atheist belief in God so long as they don't think luck is some entity.
The general opinion of God is the opinion provided by the church, not an opinion I would back personally. In your experience is it the majority or minority who think for themselves ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Last edited by ChinUp on Fri, 14th May 2010 02:16; edited 1 time in total
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:14 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | Lutzifer wrote: | | i do not assert. As i have stated before. I do not make any claims and noone has been able to demonstrate. So i take it as FACT that no god exists as much as i take it as fact that no fairies and no santa claus exists. And most religions make god out to be something that can be subjectively experienced as long as you believe in it. It does not change the facts though. |
The fact that God is synonymous with fairies & Santa Clause ? How about the fact that the church is the source of the idea that God is synonymous with fairies & Santa Clause .. or don't you want to think about that ? 
Bottom line your a church tool if you think about God like the church wants you too ie like God is synonymous with fairies & Santa Clause. The church couldn't speak for God, influence people if people didn't think God was synonymous with fairies & Santa Clause. |
if you do not stop the church bullshit, i ll just stop arguing, because you make everything circular back to that same STUPID argument that has been shown to be idiotic by more people than me. AND the distinction has no purpose whatsoever. I asked you before: Why the fuck should we care about who the fuck says what about stuff that IS NOT REAL! Will you tell me i m a church tool, because i say Harry Potter books are works of fiction as well?
As for pantheism: If you truely do believe that god is the universe, why even give it an extra name? Wasnt Universe good enough or did you have two consonants and a vowel left over from scrabble? Why attach an extra concept to something that does not need any more assertions added? |
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ChinUp
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Nalo
nothing
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:32 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 07:12; edited 3 times in total
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:33 Post subject: |
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hahahahahahahaha
i fail to tell the difference
hahahahahahahahaahah
ok, so you believe NEARLY the same as pantheists, with a tiny miniscule difference, so you can call your divine concept something different than those pesky pantheists.
The good thing is that you are claiming something to be then, whereas pantheists just equate. So yet again i can tell you that you have the burden of proof for your divine concept.
and as i said before, which you have not commented on OR FAILED TO UNDERSTAND: equating something real with something fictional does not make the fictional any less fictional. The example of yours has no merrit in the discussion because it is only the emotional resonance you feel towards the world that makes you see the beauty of a melody to be a sign of god or whatever is is that you d call that divine whatever in everything you claimed to be there. It does not substantiate any claims of realness of divine existence.
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:35 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | Please try & discuss God without referring to fantasy characters. If I wanted to discuss God with people who refer to God as a fantasy character I would go to church.  |
you edited that into your post after i quoted it.
If you want me to discuss god with you without referring to fantasy characters you have to first prove that whatever you claim to be god is not fictional. So far you have failed to produce anything. |
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ixigia
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 02:50 Post subject: |
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it was either that, or masturbating. Which i will do now, i guess 
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ChinUp
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 03:00 Post subject: |
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Lutzifer .. You are applying the "sign of God", "divine existence" mumbojumbo.
I stated that a person who calls the melody the universe plays God, has a belief in God that is based on something real & tangible.
You then apply the unreal intangible variables to it to discredit its validity. What for ?
Is calling the grain in wood God, the same as calling wood God ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 03:03 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp - almost pantheist, definitely theist wrote: | | An atheist belief in God so long as they don't think luck is some entity. |
Amazing. You have some very twisted ideas about something as simple as atheism.
Atheist: there is no god in any form or shape or anything holistically relevant. the word god is just a word used by others to describe their need to believe in something.
I know you're going to twist that into something silly but I don't care.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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ChinUp
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 03:14 Post subject: |
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Frant .. Why do you suppose the church doesn't want people to think any other belief in God exists apart from their theistic belief in God ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Last edited by ChinUp on Fri, 14th May 2010 03:17; edited 1 time in total
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Lutzifer
Modzilla
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 03:16 Post subject: |
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you re accusing me of mumbojumbo???
first off, the univers does not play a melody. That is already highly conceptual and reductionist when looking at the states, dynamics and properties of "stuff" that makes up our universe.
You claimed that god in your opinion is in everything. And therefore it is based on something real.
So if i say that invisible alien beings command every living thing, is that also real, because it is based on something real?
NO it certainly is not.
And since you cannot get your head around the burden of proof thing, i ll do it a last time:
If you make a claim about the existence of something you have to prove it does indeed exist before you can equate it with something else. For example we know that everything is made up of atoms, because it can be demonstrated again and again. Your claim that god is in everything is a belief on the other hand is based ON NOTHING but your own imagination and has no basis in reality whatsoever. A vague feeling that it is so does not constitute proof.
| Quote: | | to discredit its validity. What for ? |
i m not here to discredit or disproof anything. It is your responsibility to back up the shit you re claiming. I m merely pointing out exactly that.
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ChinUp
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Fri, 14th May 2010 04:43 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | Frant .. Why do you suppose the church doesn't want people to think any other belief in God exists apart from their theistic belief in God ? |
What has that got to do with me? You're generalising as well. Which church? Which faith? Jehovas? Mormons? Catholics??? Muslims? Jews?
Christianity is built upon monotheism, thus they teach that particular brand of religion.
| Quote: | | Name something that doesn't make a sound. |
ANYTHING in space. No sound waves, thus nothing to hear.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Frant
King's Bounty
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so it's an intelligent entity/being within everything
