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 Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 23:03 Post subject: |
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I really didn't enjoy Galactic Civilizations 2 (even with all the expansions) as much as I wanted. I kept wanting MOO2 instead -- I'm hoping this is pretty much like MOO1 or MOO2, with an actual soul, rather than GalCiv which seemed very spreadsheet-with-animations and just not fun.
Can't believe I almost missed this game's existence altogether. Getting kind of hyped up for it.
Edit: WOOOHOO, 100 posts 
| Sertorius wrote: | | Just be careful to your ass while surfing on the net and NOTHING will happen to you. |
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 23:41 Post subject: |
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"Anyway, this game is good. At times it is even great. Its the first 4x game to grab me and not let go in a long time.
Recently, I started an innocent game with the retail code beta and before I knew it, hours had gone by and I was passing the 700th turn mark.
My empire spanned across the galaxy and my enemies trembled when my fleets drew into orbit.
This game is highly addictive, somewhat like crystal meth, and if you're not careful, it will destroy your life.
Like any other good 4x game, you are the leader of your "tribe", any one of 12 unique races, and you control finance, diplomacy, research, colonial administration/construction and of course war.
The UI is simple, and although your options can be quite numerous, this is an intuitive easy game to learn. Anyone familiar with 4x games will have no trouble diving head first into this one.
You spread your people by colonizing other planets with Arc vessels. As you research new technology, your Arc vessels will become more advanced and capable of colonizing different kinds of worlds, ie. barren, tundra, irradiated, etc. Eventually, you will be able to colonize systems containing no planetoid at all. Once a colony is established, you will begin construction.
There are a wide range of structures available. From your standard mining operations, to research installations, orbital ship yards of various size, industrial centers, security buildings, recreational facilities, and defensive installations such as missile bases and orbital laser arrays.
As you increase the size of your industrial base and develop more advanced technology, you will be able to construct larger, more complex building types. Of course, your options may be limited by population size and available planetary space.
Meanwhile, the same holds true for construction of space craft and ground troops. Ships come in various classes, I'm sorry to advise that there is no ship design component here, but there are numerous classes of vessel ranging from scout, cutter, corvette, transports, destroyer, cruiser, escort carrier, fleet carrier, dreadnaught, battle cruiser, etc. etc.
There are also various classes of special space craft that you can build once you obtain certain rare resources and/or certain levels of technology. Ships are moved from system to system through standard real space, or through worm holes.
The time it takes to reach a system obviously depends on the distance to be traveled. One minor quible is that there is no fleet formation mechanic. Ships are essentially moved individually in groups.
You can not combine them into one organized unit and name it, say the 1st Terran Fleet. This will hopefully be addressed in a future update. Anyway, when you reach a system, you may colonize if its uninhabbited, do nothing if its held by a neutral or friendly species, or attack if its held by hostiles.
The combat is real time. You may position your ships which appear in orbit over the hostile world. Enemy ships will aggressively attack you. If they cannot win, they may try to retreat. If your fleet contains assault transports carrying troops, you may bring them over the planet in real time and deploy your troops. The planet is a barren field, you wont fight over cities and terrain is very indistinct.
Your troops will engage any enemy defensive installations as well as any enemy troops still left to oppose. Your ships which carry ground attack weaponry may provide combat support from space.
I have found that it is usually unnecessary to land troops on the planet as ships with ground weapons are typically very powerful and more than capable of destroying the enemy ground forces.
Battles are timed to last only three minutes...I'm not sure if this can be modified, but the battles are typically short, nasty brutish affairs. If they last longer than the 3 minute limit, the battle may continue in the following turn.
Once you destroy all of the enemy defensive troops, ships and facilities, you can decide amongst a number of options including to exterminate, devastate or subjugate. If you subjugate, you will take the colony and have to manage the alien population.
Make sure you garrison it properly, or else you will deal with unrest, turmoil and eventually open rioting.
I would subjugate, and then transport my own population of the planet to balance out the alien population and take control of the new world.
If you're a particularly sadistic kind of bastage, you can use biological weapons to exterminate the population but preserve the industrial building for your use.
When not killing your enemies, or being killed by them, you can interact with them in a number of different ways. The diplomacy suite is fairly flexible and your AI opponents are not shy when it comes to requesting agreements and making offers of trade.
They will ask for technology, for map information, for assistance in dealing with enemies and ultimately for defensive alliances. Trade ships, colonies, money, open relay stations so that your ships can refuel, open trade delegations (so that you can spy) etc. There are a lot of options here.
Research...there are hundreds of technologies broken down amongst a number of research fields. You can resrach multiple technologies at once, placing emphasis on any one over the others...its up to you how you divide your research points (which are generated by constructing research facilties).
There are pretty much all the techs you'd expect and even a bunch of unique ones in fields such as psychic and biological...there ar even special research options if you construct a skunkworks lab.
AI...its aggressive and it plays an enjoyable game. It usually makes logical decisions, but of course there are times where it offers a trade that seems illogical. What is most important to me is they will attack your undefended colonies, ask for peace when they cannot win and HONOR their military alliances and demand that you honor yours.
In battle, the AI constructs a fleets utilizing a wide range of vessels. Long range missile ships, fleet carriers, large class dreadnaughts and escort class destroyers. The AI will construct defensive military installations and attempt to hold onto its colonies while spreading to yours. Races that are peaceful in nature will attempt to befriend you, while those that are hostile will try to destroy you.
I am overall pleased with the AI in this game. Of course, I know the career complainers around here will find faults, but I can't make that my problem, I'll be too busy enjoying the game.
I don't want to turn this into a review, at this stage, but I have really enjoyed this game. Bob Smith has focused the development of this title on gameplay, AI and elements that make a fun game. The graphics and sounds are pleasing, but clearly not the developmental priority here. Although I enjoy the Total War games, those of you who have an ax to grind with CA and/or TW, should not confuse Armada with TW...the similarities are only in the broadest of terms...Armada is in essence a completely different game.
In my opinion, if you are a fan of 4x games you need to put this one on the top of your list. If you sit on the fence and refuse to get it, its at your loss... "
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 23:58 Post subject: |
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Thanks, Epsilon. The only thing that sounds bad to me is the 3 minute limit on tactical battles, but the rest sounds pretty fantastic. Hopefully we can eventually (in future updates) group the ships into proper fleets.
This game might just be my MOO2 replacement.
| Sertorius wrote: | | Just be careful to your ass while surfing on the net and NOTHING will happen to you. |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 00:01 Post subject: |
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Thanks for mini review, Epsilon.
How does it compares to the Sword of the Stars - Argos Naval Yard ? Seems they are very similar, especially timed battle rounds.
Which do you like the most so far Armada or SoTS ?
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 02:35 Post subject: |
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Well there's probably more tactics in Sword of The Stars, in that you can select which mission sections of ships to target.
But theres more options for trade, diplomacy and managing your systems in Armada, and you have more of a choice in how you want your tech to turn out.
Couple with the fact that theres a lot of racial tech thats unique to each of the 12 different races.
Another interresting thing about the reseach in Armada is the Skunkworks, where you can conduct research into experimental technologies that may or may not work
Theres a lot of tech that needs special conditions to be useful as well, like having to harvest off a neutron star to create one specific tech.
Also theres only hot-seat multiplayer in Armada until the lan and ip gets patched in, which will happen before christmas I hear.
But it's still cool that theres hot-seat in there, don't see that much these days.
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 04:09 Post subject: |
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Gonna grab this. Wonder when it will be available on Impulse?
I did read correctly that it was supposed to be there right?
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 05:03 Post subject: |
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| Big_Gun wrote: | Gonna grab this. Wonder when it will be available on Impulse?
I did read correctly that it was supposed to be there right? |
Not until tuesday. |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 08:28 Post subject: |
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Yaaay, looks great, thanks for the heads up!
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 09:05 Post subject: |
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Interesting. Do you know if there are any plans for coop mp?
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vurt
Posts: 13821
Location: Sweden
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 14:43 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | Real time combat? Time restricted? :/
I doubt this will be anywhere near GalCiv2 (one of the best PC games ever imo), but i'm gonna give it a try at least |
The only combat there was in GalCiv 2 was rendered, you have no influence over it besides your fleet setup.
Might as well play Armageddon Empires then and watch the numbers from your dice rolls. |
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vurt
Posts: 13821
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 17:15 Post subject: |
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Yeah combat was somewhat disapointing, but it doesnt mean all other 4x games should have crappy combat too, does it? Why the fuck would anyone want real time combat in a game like this, and time restricted (worst gameplay element ever, in any game).. sounds like they did their best to make it as crappy as they possibly could.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 17:51 Post subject: |
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I'm really not too big on the time restricted real-time combat either, but the other stuff looks great, will definitely check it out. I actually quite like the combat in GalCiv...
Steam - The Poopflinger
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 17:54 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Yeah combat was somewhat disapointing, but it doesnt mean all other 4x games should have crappy combat too, does it? Why the fuck would anyone want real time combat in a game like this, and time restricted (worst gameplay element ever, in any game).. sounds like they did their best to make it as crappy as they possibly could. |
I will reserve my opinion till i actually play it.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 18:02 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Yeah combat was somewhat disapointing, but it doesnt mean all other 4x games should have crappy combat too, does it? Why the fuck would anyone want real time combat in a game like this, and time restricted (worst gameplay element ever, in any game).. sounds like they did their best to make it as crappy as they possibly could. |
IMO time restricted combat adds another layer of strategy in a turn based 4x with separate combat gameplay. If you have no restriction at all, reinforcements from other planets will never ever play any role at all and pretty much the only viable strategy will become huge doomfleets to gain numerical superiority and glass/invade planets ASAP. If there's a time limit, the defender might actually hold out for a turn even if the attacker has the superior force, and then let reinforcements come in and turn the table. It also kind of makes sense in a turn based game to have a limit, since the RT or tactical turn based combat always will be more or less abstracted, and a turn is after all limited to some span of time.
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 18:31 Post subject: |
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| Mental_Hippie wrote: | | vurt wrote: | | Yeah combat was somewhat disapointing, but it doesnt mean all other 4x games should have crappy combat too, does it? Why the fuck would anyone want real time combat in a game like this, and time restricted (worst gameplay element ever, in any game).. sounds like they did their best to make it as crappy as they possibly could. |
IMO time restricted combat adds another layer of strategy in a turn based 4x with separate combat gameplay. If you have no restriction at all, reinforcements from other planets will never ever play any role at all and pretty much the only viable strategy will become huge doomfleets to gain numerical superiority and glass/invade planets ASAP. If there's a time limit, the defender might actually hold out for a turn even if the attacker has the superior force, and then let reinforcements come in and turn the table. It also kind of makes sense in a turn based game to have a limit, since the RT or tactical turn based combat always will be more or less abstracted, and a turn is after all limited to some span of time. |
Excellent analysis.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 20:19 Post subject: |
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| Big_Gun wrote: | | Mental_Hippie wrote: | | vurt wrote: | | Yeah combat was somewhat disapointing, but it doesnt mean all other 4x games should have crappy combat too, does it? Why the fuck would anyone want real time combat in a game like this, and time restricted (worst gameplay element ever, in any game).. sounds like they did their best to make it as crappy as they possibly could. |
IMO time restricted combat adds another layer of strategy in a turn based 4x with separate combat gameplay. If you have no restriction at all, reinforcements from other planets will never ever play any role at all and pretty much the only viable strategy will become huge doomfleets to gain numerical superiority and glass/invade planets ASAP. If there's a time limit, the defender might actually hold out for a turn even if the attacker has the superior force, and then let reinforcements come in and turn the table. It also kind of makes sense in a turn based game to have a limit, since the RT or tactical turn based combat always will be more or less abstracted, and a turn is after all limited to some span of time. |
Excellent analysis. |
I concur.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 21:15 Post subject: |
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Good points regarding time restricted combat and the additional layer of strategy that brings.
I don't know what it is about GalCiv 2, but I didn't enjoy it all that much. I loved MOO1 and MOO2, played SoTS a bit (liked the combat in that one), but GalCiv 2 just felt hollow to me. I bought all the expansions for it anyway, but I'd honestly get more enjoyment out of MOO2.
Either way, buying this one on Tuesday.
| Sertorius wrote: | | Just be careful to your ass while surfing on the net and NOTHING will happen to you. |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 22:43 Post subject: |
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any site selling it in digital form yet? cant find it anywhere
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 22:51 Post subject: |
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| ewo wrote: | | any site selling it in digital form yet? cant find it anywhere |
www.matrixgames.com from tuesday. |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 23:51 Post subject: |
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| Mental_Hippie wrote: |
IMO time restricted combat adds another layer of strategy ...snip... If you have no restriction at all, reinforcements from other planets will never ever play any role at all ...snip... If there's a time limit, the defender might actually hold out for a turn even if the attacker has the superior force. ...snip... |
I agree with you on that. SOTS is a prime example how the time limit can in fact add to the strategy layer of the game by allowing reinforcements. Thing is, this only works if the combat is sufficiently slow paced. If it is a big and ugly brawl, thats over kinda fast, as some of the ones who already played it have said, then having a time limit has no real effect whatsoever.
In SOTS, the time limit was enforced by the fact that you only had a limited number of points to commit to a fight. I doubt theres a similar restriction here, so meh.. we will see tho.
As for the game itself. I dont hold my breath. Plenty have tried but quite frankly, theres only a handful of tries even worth mentioning. The rest are just ugly and useless clones that try to be innovative but fail badly.
Personally, i dont see how a game in this genre could succeed without decent ship customization (lets not bring up soase as an example, as thats more of an RTS than a true 4X TBS game). Building your own ship designs is just as much part of the moo experience, as it can get.
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A-A
Posts: 3153
Location: New york
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009 19:48 Post subject: |
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| A-A wrote: | Is it out yet? , is it out yet? , is it out yet?
Just posting for anyone else who was going to post this  |
Hmm no not until tomorrow. |
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009 23:23 Post subject: |
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Epsilon, did you test the MP?
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009 23:44 Post subject: |
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It's hotseat only, for the time being.
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A-A
Posts: 3153
Location: New york
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proekaan
VIP Member
Posts: 3650
Location: Finland
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A-A
Posts: 3153
Location: New york
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009 11:12 Post subject: |
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Will do , thanks proekaan!
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