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 Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 20:13 Post subject: Do you think i'm crazy |
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You know yestarday i woke up and i realized that i'm going to die one day. So i was scared and i started reading about death. The more i was reading, the more i became afraid. What is notingness? Is there such thing? We can never know. What do you think, is it normal to think about this?
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 20:31 Post subject: |
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The ultimate purpose of life is death.
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 20:37 Post subject: |
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oh little boy why be scared of the ultimate certainty? what is nothingness? remember before you were born? no? well that's how it's gonna be.
just enjoy life and if your life is too stressful grab an uz- err just get a better job.
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 21:02 Post subject: |
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had that when my grandfather [fukin despot and tirant] past away after some time beeing completely paralized, atlho it was a relief i was scared shitless of death when i slept on his bed after about a week after his death
haven't been thinking about it since
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tnisa8
Posts: 113
Location: ASEXUALLY REPRODUCTIVE ORGANISM
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 21:29 Post subject: |
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It's scary but there's nothing you can do about it. So just chill out and smoke that next blunt.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009 21:45 Post subject: |
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But money kills you from the inside. 
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deelix
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 02:52 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Think of this, in an infinitely cyclic universe (big crunch --> big bang repetition) the exact energy state which defines your consciousness will exist again. |
I doubt that the universe (cyclic or not) cares much about our existence not to mention that that reference to consciousness is bordering on religious dogma. Our presence here is probably a bigger accident than our demise which is pretty much a certainty.
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 03:44 Post subject: |
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If you've ever been under anesthesia you understand a bit what it might be like (I had my appendix out several years ago)... strange to just feel like you've blinked and then all of a sudden hours have gone by instantaneously.
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Cohen
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 04:30 Post subject: |
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lol, my experience wasn't so vivid ... just remember counting back from 10 and by the time I reached 6 then BAM I was waking up in the recovery room a split second later.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 04:32 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | Think of this, in an infinitely cyclic universe (big crunch --> big bang repetition) the exact energy state which defines your consciousness will exist again. |
I doubt that the universe (cyclic or not) cares much about our existence not to mention that that reference to consciousness is bordering on religious dogma. Our presence here is probably a bigger accident than our demise which is pretty much a certainty. |
Cares about our existence? The universe does not care about anything, it is a grand scale thermodynamic system, why do you anthropomorphise it like that?
I'm not going to bother continuing this debate in any detail, an internet forum is not the place and I don't really care enough to discuss my personal beliefs here. Suffice to say, it only has as much relation to organised religion as classical science.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
Last edited by AnimalMother on Tue, 30th Jun 2009 04:52; edited 1 time in total
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 04:39 Post subject: |
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I for one am pleasantly surprised to see that most people are honest about their fear ... it's easy to claim the opposite.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 04:43 Post subject: |
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| nouseforaname wrote: | | I for one am pleasantly surprised to see that most people are honest about their fear ... it's easy to claim the opposite. |
I think everyone goes through that stage, part of the transition into an adult. I suppose old people also go through the same process, that's why a lot of them 'rediscover' religion.
Anyway, it's probably best to just ignore the whole thing anyway. A fear of death is nothing but restrictive, and the answer to that fear is a personal thing anyway. Organised religion certainly doesn't provide an answer.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 05:43 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | nouseforaname wrote: | | I for one am pleasantly surprised to see that most people are honest about their fear ... it's easy to claim the opposite. |
I think everyone goes through that stage, part of the transition into an adult. I suppose old people also go through the same process, that's why a lot of them 'rediscover' religion.
Anyway, it's probably best to just ignore the whole thing anyway. A fear of death is nothing but restrictive, and the answer to that fear is a personal thing anyway. Organised religion certainly doesn't provide an answer. |
I don't know about that ... I mean I definitely went through a bit of a stage when I was younger, but even in recent years I guess I still would call what I feel a "fear" of death. Given the rest of the responsibilities I've assumed in my life (and the fact that I'm almost 30 FFS!) I wouldn't consider myself not an adult.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 05:49 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Cares about our existence? The universe does not care about anything, it is a grand scale thermodynamic system, why do you anthropomorphise it like that? |
Actually it is you who is handing out 'mathematical certainties' that all our consciousnesses will in the future remanifest themselves somehow. As if the universe by its 'cyclic' nature is aware of us and guarantees us all some form of resurrection.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | the exact energy state which defines your consciousness will exist again. |
Wtf does that even mean?
I can't even begin to understand what that means or what you base that assumption on. Have any of these aforementioned 'consciousnesses' contacted you to confirm this theory of yours? Otherwise it is just you stringing together a bunch of fancy words because you like to see them on the screen.
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 07:32 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | death is not scary at all, it's just another experience.  |
i agree with that 
though it may not be a memorable experience... it's still an experience
a ride of a lifetime
the final breath
the last stroke
what happens after doesn't matter...
people who are afraid of death haven't done a lot in life.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 07:45 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wtf does that even mean? |
The stuff that makes you will show up again.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 08:05 Post subject: |
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| nouseforaname wrote: | | lol, my experience wasn't so vivid ... just remember counting back from 10 and by the time I reached 6 then BAM I was waking up in the recovery room a split second later. |
Totally! I remember when I had surgery way back I just closed and opened my eyes. And that's it. I don't know if I was expecting anything more, but that was like: What? It's over? Well ok then...
| AnimalMother wrote: | | Think of this, in an infinitely cyclic universe (big crunch --> big bang repetition) the exact energy state which defines your consciousness will exist again. This is a mathematical certainty. |
Well, actually the currently accepted model is the Big Bang model in which the expasnion of the universe is accelerating 
But since we cnanot understand what time means (and thus we cannot know if it is only linear as in classic mechanics, or you can go both ways on time scale) we mustn't throw away the "closed universe" model (even tho Hawking is against it but...).
And the thing you are reffering to, AM, is Poincaré recurrence theorem. It states that if you have a system in initial state, and let it evolve (say gas in an box, but on one side of it (adiabaticly closed)), after a looooong period of time it will, eventually, go back to the state it was in the first place (io one side of a box - for gasses). But we don't really like that theorem as the time needed for a system to go back to initial state can be longer than the age of universe (~infinity) As my assistent/professor said: Physicist ignore it bacause it's silly
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 08:06 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | Cares about our existence? The universe does not care about anything, it is a grand scale thermodynamic system, why do you anthropomorphise it like that? |
Actually it is you who is handing out 'mathematical certainties' that all our consciousnesses will in the future remanifest themselves somehow. As if the universe by its 'cyclic' nature is aware of us and guarantees us all some form of resurrection.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | the exact energy state which defines your consciousness will exist again. |
Wtf does that even mean?
I can't even begin to understand what that means or what you base that assumption on. Have any of these aforementioned 'consciousnesses' contacted you to confirm this theory of yours? Otherwise it is just you stringing together a bunch of fancy words because you like to see them on the screen. |
It's all right, it's a personal thing anyway. It's not like we can really even debate something so subjective, there are no real 'facts' to speak of, and no precedent we can quantify.
I thought I would share my beliefs on mortality, as I feel they make me stronger. But it's not something you can really be told, it's a state of mind you have to find yourself. What is reassuring for me might not necessarily be the same for you.
So lets leave it at that, I hope I didn't come across as arrogant or elitist because that was not what I intended. Maybe it was a mistake to share something so inherently personal in the first place.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 08:12 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: |
Well, actually the currently accepted model is the Big Bang model in which the expasnion of the universe is accelerating
But since we cnanot understand what time means (and thus we cannot know if it is only linear as in classic mechanics, or you can go both ways on time scale) we mustn't throw away the "closed universe" model (even tho Hawking is against it but...).
And the thing you are reffering to, AM, is Poincaré recurrence theorem. It states that if you have a system in initial state, and let it evolve (say gas in an box, but on one side of it (adiabaticly closed)), after a looooong period of time it will, eventually, go back to the state it was in the first place (io one side of a box - for gasses). But we don't really like that theorem as the time needed for a system to go back to initial state can be longer than the age of universe (~infinity) As my assistent/professor said: Physicist ignore it bacause it's silly |
The rate of acceleration of expansion of the universe is decreasing. That theorem (which I hadn't heard of, thanks ) isn't exactly what I'm referring to, since I'm talking about the universe itself, time is irrelevant. It's not a practicable system, there is nothing to be manipulated so it's not ignored because it's 'silly', it's ignored because there is no practical way to manipulate such a system.
But like I said in my previous post, such a debate is purely academic, and this forum isn't an appropriate place for it.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 08:23 Post subject: |
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Death cannot be explained by anyone living. Just as any one persons life cannot be explained. Life and death are like each persons DNA. Each is unique. All life experiences are from the first person point of view. All experiences are related to someone else. Therefore they are related to how well the person relates the experiences. Life and death are all relative from the point of view. This is where Einstien's theory of special relativity comes into effect. No one can explain death because it is experienced from each persons point of view. No one person can recall events the same. Even in shared events. Each person views things differently. So what am I saying? I ay fuck it death will come when it comes. I can't change it.
IM NOT CRAZY
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 08:25 Post subject: |
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I don't know exactly about the rate of acceleration, its just sth one of my proffesors said, so I trust him I have cosmology on 4th year, so I can't give any "good" argument  (that reminds me I still have like two years until that  )
Well time is not really irrelevant (no mater what the size is: remember in 1 liter of air there is molecules with order of magnitude of N_A ~10^23 if I'm not mistaken) and the theorem holds. I'm saying that the time scale for such thing to happen would be approx. infinity and that's why we ignore it. But true, it's more academic debate so we'll leave it there
About the topic: I believe that we all get to the point in our life when we ask ourselves: What's the point? And that's pretty big event in ones life imo. You can really learn alot about yourself and grow as a person from it. It's nothing strange and nothing to fear (if you fear it too much you may become paranoid, and we all know what society does with those kind of people  )
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 09:51 Post subject: |
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lol everythng is relavent from a certain point of view. Your is different from mine just as AM is different from yours. No one person can expeireance the same thing because it is seen from their point of view. Its all relative man.
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 11:22 Post subject: |
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| nouseforaname wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | nouseforaname wrote: | | I for one am pleasantly surprised to see that most people are honest about their fear ... it's easy to claim the opposite. |
I think everyone goes through that stage, part of the transition into an adult. I suppose old people also go through the same process, that's why a lot of them 'rediscover' religion.
Anyway, it's probably best to just ignore the whole thing anyway. A fear of death is nothing but restrictive, and the answer to that fear is a personal thing anyway. Organised religion certainly doesn't provide an answer. |
I don't know about that ... I mean I definitely went through a bit of a stage when I was younger, but even in recent years I guess I still would call what I feel a "fear" of death. Given the rest of the responsibilities I've assumed in my life (and the fact that I'm almost 30 FFS!) I wouldn't consider myself not an adult. |
I don't know, from the way you talk about it, and your candid honesty, I wouldn't exactly call your attitude a 'fear'. People who truly fear it, are almost in denial about it's existence. This is what organised religion prays upon.
You understand the reality of it, unlike a child, yet you don't let it dominate your life, like a religious fundamentalist, or some older people. You have achieved a functional medium as it were.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009 11:38 Post subject: |
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As long as we're talking about beliefs then here's mine. I don't know more about death than anyone else here but just because we believe in different things doesn't mean that death will be different for all of us. No matter how hard we pray/hope/believe, that damn tooth won't turn into a quarter. All this talk about 'mathematical certainties' and 'relativity' makes it sound like pseudo-science but that doesn't make it any better than religion.
In my opinion, our deaths, just like our lives are subject to rules and rules don't change for anyone regardless of our beliefs. Us thinking that we are on some wonderful journey with life being just a small part of it is just conjecture. Is a single-cell bacteria living on a ball of dung also on a wonderful journey because that is in essence what we are. The fact that we are clinging on to dear life on this ball of dirt doesn't make us any better. Just because we can think pretty thoughts doesn't grant us the power to make them come true.
All our hopes/theories/questions about after-life are just an attempt to extend our lives further than the few nano-seconds that we've gotten on the cosmic-clock. It is no different than those 'scientists' who even in the face of proof insisted on an earth-centric model of the universe. In essence, it is just a desperate attempt to distinguish ourselves from other forms of life and give some higher purpose to our lives.
For what it's worth, when the lights go out, I don't know what happens. I don't know if we'll be walking towards any light, or some transluscent human form or energy will escape from our lifeless body. If any of that crap is true then we'll certainly know but the good news is that if it is not true and if once the light goes out, and stays out, then we (both as a person and as a species) won't be any wiser.
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