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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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 Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 10:07 Post subject: games games games |
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Really (and Im pretty sure I will get flamed for this...)..
if a game cost less than €10 and if you wanna give it a go - wtf do people pirate it??? I really don't get this...
I do understand that people can't afford expensive games and use that as an excuse to pirate the game - but same people often say "if they reduced the price I would have bought it, but Im sure as hell wont pay <insert insane price>"...and still, when games actually ARE cheap they still keep pirating...so question is..whats the next excuse?
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24640
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 10:12 Post subject: |
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The truth is: it's become part of the culture and people love stuff for free. The rest are just platitudes to defend their actions. They don't want to think further ahead than their own personal enjoyment, esp. if they don't have to pay for it. And it's a habit. It's been around since the early 80'ies when people copied tapes from each other instead of buying the games.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 10:14 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | The truth is: it's become part of the culture and people love stuff for free. The rest are just platitudes to defend their actions. They don't want to think further ahead than their own personal enjoyment, esp. if they don't have to pay for it. And it's a habit. It's been around since the early 80'ies when people copied tapes from each other instead of buying the games. |
Yeah I know - I used to be a member of Triad on c64. But that was abit different for me since I was young...but now there are people who buy computers for insane money and still pirate games that arent very expensive.
..but as I said - I do understand that some people can't afford games...but why do they use the oh so well used "if they only lowered the price" excuse?
Edit: Don't get me wrong - I pirate movies myself...but 99% of the time I buy the movie or go to the cinema instead. Or download the movie while I wait for my copy to arrive (for some idiotic reason).
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24640
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 10:30 Post subject: |
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You were a member of Triad??? Awesome... Not impossible we met on some of the copy/demo/hacker parties back in the day if you went to those (in case you were still around during the Amiga 500 heydays).
I remember when I cracked my first Amiga game.. WW2 flight "sim".. Battlehawks 1942.. Protection: look up page X, paragraph X, Line X, word #X, all by using Cmonitor (disassembler).
Or the first time I managed to create a proper raster interrupt on the C64 and create flicker free raster bars (lots of NOP's and stuff), my first sprite scroll... Oh, you bastard, you've made me all nostalgic now.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 12:20 Post subject: |
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Well, if and when I get a job (and assuming it's a decent paying one) I'll buy games. Steam makes it relatively easy.
But since I don't have an income, the only way to occasionally play some games is to dl it.
Then again, some games are really not worth it.
I played FC3 and BO2 recently, and I managed to play BO2 in a day. And I remember the times when I would play a game and after a few months I'd play it again, just because the story and everything was just good. With these I'm just: meh...
It's a mix of: we don't have money+games are really meh these days...
Or I'm just getting older :\
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 12:33 Post subject: |
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Easy. Why pay when you can get it for free?
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 13:40 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Easy. Why pay when you can get it for free? |
...and thats just it. Thats the worst reason.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 13:53 Post subject: |
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I always need to try a game first after a few burns on my purchase. And since I'm not earning royally I tend to buy the games I like when they are having a sale or a discount with some exceptions when I can afford it.
Just doesn't feel right to me to just get everything free. I do think most entertainment is priced too high tho. (bothered me less when I had a fatter paycheck) But to use it as an excuse to just 'steal' everything is not right in my book.
Downside of everything getting mainstream. Lot's of dumbo's and douchebags can figure it out now and are usually the type that don't appreciate the work that has been put in to deliver a quality product. 
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 13:58 Post subject: |
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i just think people dont like to waste money.
i feel a lot more secure buying a game ive already pirated and enjoyed, than taking a chance on one i have no idea is good.
its that worry of throwing what little money i have away thats the issue for me, rather than 'i dont wanna pay if i can pirate'.
$10 might be insignificant for some, but for others, its not.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 14:24 Post subject: |
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You know what I don't see these days? Demos.
I might be wrong on this one, maybe there are demos on official sites of the games, and I don't look at those, but I remember, when I used to buy PC magazines, you'd get a CD (later on DVD) with it with tons of free stuff and game demos. Like maybe the first level of the game.
You'd play it, see if you like it, and get hyped on it and you'd buy it.
These days all you see is someone playing an unfinished version of a game, and that should somehow hype you to purchase it yourself and play it, even tho you have no idea whether you'll really like the gameplay or not...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 14:44 Post subject: |
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| Ankh wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | Easy. Why pay when you can get it for free? |
...and thats just it. Thats the worst reason. |
How is it the worst reason? In what way? It's the simplest reason.
And as dingo states, there are almost no demos and review embargos are getting more common each year.
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 15:13 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Ankh wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | Easy. Why pay when you can get it for free? |
...and thats just it. Thats the worst reason. |
How is it the worst reason? In what way? It's the simplest reason.
And as dingo states, there are almost no demos and review embargos are getting more common each year. |
Cos imo its the same reason why people steal anything they have within reach. Somebody drops their wallet "hey, lets keep it..its free".
And you seem to miss my point, im talking about the cheap games and not the expensive ones.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 15:30 Post subject: |
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Because I like to buy games because I like it, not because of guilt.
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Aeon
Posts: 8700
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 15:33 Post subject: |
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| ivan1real wrote: | | Because I like to buy games because I like it, not because of guilt. |
Intel i7 6700K, RTX470 Super, Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 16:33 Post subject: |
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1 - I don't give a shit. Really don't. If my $10 were the difference between all developers ceasing from making games right now I'd let them all burn without a problem.
There's enough good stuff to play again or to go back to and play for the first time for me out there. But most importantly...
2 - It's good that you have a job from which the paycheck is more than enough to keep you fed, with clothes on, with all the bills paid and with all your monthly debts covered.
I don't, I'm slowly getting there but right now it's not happening.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24640
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 16:47 Post subject: |
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A problem is that demos aren't as prevalent these days as they used to be. I remember subscribing to PC Gamer and it first game with one CD full of game demos, they then came with 2 full cd's of current game demos. Before that a lot of games were shareware (Doom, Duke3D etc.) where you got access to the first couple of levels and then could decide if you wanted to buy the game.
However, games were still pirated with or without demos & shareware. It's a mentality that has passed on from early days and is imprinted in most non-paying gamers. There's no feeling/sense of taking something and enjoying it without rewarding the creators for their work and efforts. In fact, they aren't existing in most peoples minds it seems, people just see greedy publishers and flick the finger.. Ie. a sort of Robin Hood complex, stealing from the rich. But the actual people making the games, working for years, overtime, coding, designing, building, creating, composing etc.. If their game is pirated to the point where sales are lower than they should be, they may have to cut the team down or sack the entire gang or rebuild the team to do CoD sequels for the rest of their lives.
"Hey, they sold 550,000 copies on the PC, my piracy of this game doesn't make a difference". Well, in one way it's true, in another way it's false since it's a symptom of a much bigger issue, the mentality I spoke of where piracy is the norm, nobody feel any guilt or that it's wrong to download ISO's.
Doesn't help that publishers, being stupid as they are, alienate the customers and promote piracy in their own way by blaming everything on the gamers, using DRM schemes that only punish the legit buyers, lie (like coming out with numbers of lost sales and lost money which is just bullshit, they have no such figures, they only throw up some exaggerated estimates to make things seem worse than it is).
Still, I have almost 100 games on Steam now. Won some, got many from sales, a bunch from Indie-sales, enough full price.
What they did with DE:HR is an example of a reason why nobody should pirate it. From start it was already a little cheaper than most other titles. Then after the first couple of months they lowered the price and now it's half price and often part of sales for less than a tenner.
For anybody who truly enjoyed that game it's a given to buy a copy of it since it's worth the $9.99 or $19.99 they want (depending on where you look, sometimes even cheaper on sales). There's no excuse. Just explanations and sidestepping the issue.
Personally I see the truth being somewhere in-between. Piracy IS a problem, to an extent. Publishers exaggerate it. But many of us are habitual and have pirated games since we got our first PC/Computer. Many don't give a shit, either because they're broke or they're just cheap and stuck in the piracy mentality.
I have a low income, yet try to buy the games I want. I'll buy Bioshock Infinite (I have Bioshock in steelbox, I have Skyrim in original box and a bunch of posters that came with it and so on). I'll try to look for deals, but even if I don't find a deal I'll still buy it and eat noodles for a day or two because I think it will be worthwhile and I want to do my part to make sure games like that have a future.
That's also why I paid the crowd-funding fee for Star Citizen. Apparently enough people thought like me (thankfully) so it will hopefully become a great game when it arrives.
But yes, I also pirate games.. I've pirated FC3 because I was fairly certain it would suck, and it did, uninstalled it and deleted the ISO same day. Some games I've bought AFTER I pirated them since they were so good.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 17:02 Post subject: |
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Don't get me wrong - I don't get a rats arse if you pirate or not..I just find it really pathetic with people who keep claiming they do it just cos they can't afford the game or because they are too expensive - and still pirate it when the price is reduced.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 17:58 Post subject: |
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| Ankh wrote: | | Don't get me wrong - I don't get a rats arse if you pirate or not..I just find it really pathetic with people who keep claiming they do it just cos they can't afford the game or because they are too expensive - and still pirate it when the price is reduced. |
And some ppl really don't have money. Why is that so hard to understand?
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:15 Post subject: |
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Somehow I feel that my Q8300 + HD6850 don't fit the "insane money spent on a computer" category 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:20 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: | | Ankh wrote: | | Don't get me wrong - I don't get a rats arse if you pirate or not..I just find it really pathetic with people who keep claiming they do it just cos they can't afford the game or because they are too expensive - and still pirate it when the price is reduced. |
And some ppl really don't have money. Why is that so hard to understand? |
If you don't have enough money to buy a game for less than €10 - then you just don't get it.
If I wanna drive somewhere and Im out of gas - I don't steal from the gas station.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:33 Post subject: |
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Minimum wage in Croatia (where me and dingo live) is about 340€. A lot of my friends are from families where only one parent works, and they might have multiple siblings. They receive some money from the state but still 10€ is a lot if you're unemployed.
Even those that work for an average wage, which is more like 600€ will most certainly prefer to spend that 10€ somewhere else if they can get the game for free. Just saving up for a PC upgrade takes a huge amount of cash, not to mention other "luxuries" you can't get for free.
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:48 Post subject: |
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its not stealing if he has a 24th century star trek replicator at home
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:51 Post subject: |
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| ivan1real wrote: | No, I will get it because I can. And you can do nothing to stop me so best just deal with it. And here, a guide to piracy.
Maybe it will help you understand and not do dumb analogies. |
I never have and never will use that as an excuse but it's correct 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 18:56 Post subject: |
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I wouldn't use that as an excuse either
But it's correct when it comes to my gamer friends. None of them has EVER bought a game, no matter how much they wanted it. There have been plenty games that haven't gotten cracked or are multiplayer based they would very much like to play, but they never purchased them. Not even a 10€ game. When you have that little cash, you seriously prioritize what you spend it on. I don't consider it stealing as they would never buy it in the first place, so technically no money lost for the publisher/developer, but I guess that's up for debate.
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Ankh
Posts: 23342
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 19:02 Post subject: |
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| Shocktrooper wrote: | | its not stealing if he has a 24th century star trek replicator at home |
Good point!
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 19:11 Post subject: |
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It's not traditional stealing, but it is a form of stealing. In a way after years and years we have trained ourselves to think pirating games is OK, but not just because of you, but also because everyone around you also does it. So in a way you start thinking what you're doing is actually legal and ok in a moral sense. I've seen different types of pirates when it comes to this. Some THINK it's morally legal and also legal in any other form, and some realize that it is actually illegal, but does it out of many different reasons. It's quite hard to explain this, and i might be completely wrong, but it's what i have gathered out of this after a good few years on the net.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 2nd Mar 2013 19:49 Post subject: |
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My current (quite critical) financial situation doesn't allow me to waste any money, not even 10€. Besides, I never buy stuff blindly since I strongly believe in the try-before-buy dogma, and in the 90% of the cases the only way to test a product is the mighty ISOdemo, so why not, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in this. 
Gaming is obviously my #1 hobby, and I do spend quite a lot of monies on it, but I do it "wisely" since prime necessities are the top priority..it's called budget optimization. 
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