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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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 Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 01:31 Post subject: ron's newest old discussion |
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Nothing
Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 12:02; edited 1 time in total
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azzman
Posts: 4059
Location: Australiiiaaa , maate
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 01:38 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | Nhiumewyn wrote: | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230
Should we ban all knifes as well? Or it would be better to start amputating the arms of every person with a considerable body build?
:sarcasm: |
Well in a way yes, banning the carrying of knifes, in certain areas, is not a bad idea despite your sacasm. The reality though, is that over the past 3 years in China, where these kind of attacks have become a regular occurenc, there have been around 20 deaths as a result. In one gun related spree that same death count is reached. |
The crazed will always find a way to carry a knife, a gun, an axe, and use it in a killing spree, by creating restrictions on what sort of items one can carry, you are only helping the killer being more successful with his attack. You are indirectly allowing the killer to be the greater force, and this isn't even mentioning the philosophical illegitimacy of restriction...
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 01:41 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: |
Edit: just for the record, to my knowledge NYC is relatively well regulated on this front, and out of all the big cities it has the lowest violent crime rates and especially gun-related crimes - not bad for what, 8 million citizens compared to Texas' 2 or so? Clearly they're doing *something* right. |
I don't mean to nitpick, but someone who knows so little about American state populations should probably never talk about the interworkings of American society. Further, Texas and New York have a very closer murder rate in recent years, so what you're saying really doesn't mean much.
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azzman
Posts: 4059
Location: Australiiiaaa , maate
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 01:52 Post subject: |
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Ryan Lanza “told authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a ‘personality disorder.’ Neighbors have described him as “odd” and said he behaves as if he has an obsessive-compulsive disorder.
So this fuck was a total looper, I wonder if he was a forbidden person to own firearms and the mother bought them for him?
Under Connecticut law, people under 21 are prohibited from purchasing or carrying handguns. Lanza was 20.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:22 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:30; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:35 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | Nhiumewyn wrote: | | Nalo wrote: |
Well in a way yes, banning the carrying of knifes, in certain areas, is not a bad idea despite your sacasm. The reality though, is that over the past 3 years in China, where these kind of attacks have become a regular occurenc, there have been around 20 deaths as a result. In one gun related spree that same death count is reached. |
The crazed will always find a way to carry a knife, a gun, an axe, and use it in a killing spree, by creating restrictions on what sort of items one can carry, you are only helping the killer being more successful with his attack. You are indirectly allowing the killer to be the greater force, and this isn't even mentioning the philosophical illegitimacy of restriction... |
If such action would frustrate the killers task, even minutely, thereby creating at least minor hinderance, then it isa detriment tn him and a worthy action, no? The point is damage control, one weapon causes considerably more than others. |
A weapon doesn't cause damage, a person with ill intent causes damage, and there will always be people with ill intent.
Your argument is inconsequential and insubstantial, everyone can purchase a weapon in the black market, in the very same way that anyone can purchase drugs, despite the ridiculous war on it. Your arguing for damage control while punishing people with intent for self defense unable to purchase the means to defend themselves in a situation such as this.
I presume your solution is to wait 10-20 minutes for the swat team while you bleed out on the floor...
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:48 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:30; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:58 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | Ron, I dont have the time, or patience to spell out, what you , as an intelligent man, should eaily be able to grasp. There would be little need for a gun as self defence, if there are more restrictions on who obtains them. I suppose it is also a legitimate right to carry a gun into a school, in your view. |
Who obtains them in the normal market you mean, everyone can obtain a gun in the black market with considerable ease. That fact by itself completely invalidates your argument.
And it's not my view, it's an objective fact, the bond between man and property is absolute and absolutely private, all external restriction is a crime of the most fundamental matter.
Restricting an individuals use of his property is as irrational as restricting one of using his left leg.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:03 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: | | Nalo wrote: | | Ron, I dont have the time, or patience to spell out, what you , as an intelligent man, should eaily be able to grasp. There would be little need for a gun as self defence, if there are more restrictions on who obtains them. I suppose it is also a legitimate right to carry a gun into a school, in your view. |
Who obtains them in the normal market you mean, everyone can obtain a gun in the black market with considerable ease. That fact by itself completely invalidates your argument.
And it's not my view, it's an objective fact, the bond between man and property is absolute and absolutely private, all external restriction is a crime of the most fundamental matter.
Restricting an individuals use of his property is as irrational as restricting one of using his left leg. |
Europe has very very strict gun laws, and it has a LOT less violent gun crimes than the US. So there is clearly something wrong with the US as a society then, if your gun laws are not the problem. (Which I think they are, partially.) There is absolutely no need for anyone to be allowed to own and purchase an assault rifle. Why the hell do you need it? Are you going to war? Obviously there is idiots in every country who do stupid shit, but America seems to be on top with gun related crimes.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:10 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:30; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:17 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | An array of deadly weapons can be obtained via the black market, so lets legalise them all. I for one, believe it is every mans legitimate right to own a bazooka |
It doesn't matter what anyone believes, it isn't anyone's place to meddle with the property acquisition choices of others.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:26 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:30; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:26 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: |
It doesn't matter what anyone believes, it isn't anyone's place to meddle with the property acquisition choices of others. |
See, this is where you're wrong.
Long, long ago, back when we were nothing but a bunch of dirty, shitty cavemen, people got together and decided that exercising force to prevent people from doing/owning things that were detrimental to the rest of the group (be it hoarding food or whatever) was the right thing to do. So society has decided that... guess what, it's actually TOTALLY okay to meddle with other peoples' property. And you, the libertarian nutjobs, just have to learn to live with it -- you know, the way your less-crazy ancestors did.
Basically what I'm getting at is that people like you tend to believe that there is some kind of natural law that is being perverted to prevent people from owning nukes and tons of machine guns. But that's simply not the case. The rest of society is preventing you from doing so, and that's because force/strength/numbers are all on our side. So suck it up and deal with it.
Or move to Somalia. That would also be acceptable.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:29 Post subject: |
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Aw this thread is fucked now, why did you have to poke him.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:46 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: | | Nhiumewyn wrote: |
It doesn't matter what anyone believes, it isn't anyone's place to meddle with the property acquisition choices of others. |
See, this is where you're wrong.
Long, long ago, back when we were nothing but a bunch of dirty, shitty cavemen, people got together and decided that exercising force to prevent people from doing/owning things that were detrimental to the rest of the group (be it hoarding food or whatever) was the right thing to do. So society has decided that... guess what, it's actually TOTALLY okay to meddle with other peoples' property. And you, the libertarian nutjobs, just have to learn to live with it -- you know, the way your less-crazy ancestors did.
Basically what I'm getting at is that people like you tend to believe that there is some kind of natural law that is being perverted to prevent people from owning nukes and tons of machine guns. But that's simply not the case. The rest of society is preventing you from doing so, and that's because force/strength/numbers are all on our side. So suck it up and deal with it.
Or move to Somalia. That would also be acceptable. |
We are all aware about the strength in numbers of the masses, but force never has and never will grant you legitimacy or validity.
This isn't about opinion or believe, that is the position of the masses and people such as yourself, this is about the very real logical fact that property only exists as an extension of one's labor, and it is an absolute relationship, regardless of consequences, regardless of susceptibilities, the strength of the masses will forever be one of force, never one of reason or logic, for that you will never have. Like religion, you see, you might develop an entirely fictional interpretation of reality with your special rules and metaphysical factors, and behead all non believers, jihadist style, but truth, reason and rationality is something that will elude people such as those for their entire brief existence on this planet.
Rather a miserable and weak rational entity bent on truth than a strong idiot denouncing it and favoring social conformity and fallacious premises.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:50 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: |
Strange ranting in an attempt to make it out as if other people have a "religious" adherence to the rules of a civilized society, all the while worshiping a fabricated libertarian ideal which is much akin to a savage dirty culture's golden god.
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Yup, about what I expected.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 03:56 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: | | Nhiumewyn wrote: |
Strange ranting in an attempt to make it out as if other people have a "religious" adherence to the rules of a civilized society, all the while worshiping a fabricated libertarian ideal which is much akin to a savage dirty culture's golden god.
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Yup, about what I expected. |
I'm not a libertarian.
I deem the entire libertarian movement as anti intellectual and an unfortunate social regurgitation of poorly understood philosophical truth.
But yes, indeed, the 'rules' of civilized society are as much a religion as any other system of idolatry or ideology.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 04:03 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: | | I'm not a libertarian. |
I'm sure the little leprechaun whispering in your ear believes that, and maybe even you do, but don't expect anyone else to.
Anyway, too much off-topic, so I'll take my leave from this debate.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 04:58 Post subject: |
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14502
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 04:59 Post subject: |
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I somehow don;t think that gun control laws will change anytime soon.
Maybe my kids will see it, if I ever have any ><
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 05:07 Post subject: |
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GTA killed the kids. Obviously.
(Btw... WTF does it matter with what exactly they got killed? It was this friggin lunatic... doesn't matter if he killed them with guns,beerbottles,marshmellows or friggin mind bullets. People are shit and they do horrible stuff. Always. You can restrict stuff as much as you like, go ahead. Won't do shit. Someone will always find a way and fucks someone up the ass)
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 05:11 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: |
(Btw... WTF does it matter with what exactly they got killed? It was this friggin lunatic... doesn't matter if he killed them with guns,beerbottles,marshmellows or friggin mind bullets. People are shit and they do horrible stuff. Always. You can restrict stuff as much as you like, go ahead. Won't do shit. Someone will always find a way and fucks someone up the ass) |
And that's why America's murder rate is the same as the rest of the civilized world... said no one ever.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 05:23 Post subject: |
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| Paintface wrote: | http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2012/12/15/pmt-panel-gun-control-debate.cnn
morgan talking sense for once |
Why is he comparing murder count in UK and US? US has a vastly larger population.
Last edited by FireMaster on Sat, 15th Dec 2012 05:56; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 05:31 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: | | m3th0d2008 wrote: |
(Btw... WTF does it matter with what exactly they got killed? It was this friggin lunatic... doesn't matter if he killed them with guns,beerbottles,marshmellows or friggin mind bullets. People are shit and they do horrible stuff. Always. You can restrict stuff as much as you like, go ahead. Won't do shit. Someone will always find a way and fucks someone up the ass) |
And that's why America's murder rate is the same as the rest of the civilized world... said no one ever. |
Sorry mate, im not thinking in borders. I'm into global.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 07:22 Post subject: |
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Obama: "our hearts are broken..."
Go cry me a fucking river; actions speak louder than words...
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 12:43 Post subject: |
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