Funny how atheists think they are neutral and the religious people are extreme. Well guess what, you are two sides of the same coin. Agnostics are neutral, and I don't know who is getting on my nerves more, either religious or proud-to-be-atheists. You are all claiming shit you can't support.
Funny how atheists think they are neutral and the religious people are extreme. Well guess what, you are two sides of the same coin. Agnostics are neutral, and I don't know who is getting on my nerves more, either religious or proud-to-be-atheists. You are all claiming shit you can't support.
Only difference between agnostics and atheists are semantics.
What does it mean exactly. Some people see it as a thing they belong, like a cult, but is it what you are saying?
Then they don't have a cat's clue in a horses ass. Or something like that. The only thing common for all atheists is lack of faith in a 'creator/deity'. That's it. Anyone trying to make it out to be more is probably trying to sell you something. Probably a religion ^_^
Of course they'll get national coverage, people will talk about them, getting exactly what they wanted. They shown a million times before that they don't give a single fuck about what people think about them. They only care about prancing in front of the news camera, spreading they extreme biblical literalism.
Anonymous isn't really helping here, they are only bringing even more attention to them by attacking them. They should work towards exposing stuff, like bringing the dirty laundry of scientology to light. The WBC already had its undeserved fanfare.
What does it mean exactly. Some people see it as a thing they belong, like a cult, but is it what you are saying?
Then they don't have a cat's clue in a horses ass. Or something like that. The only thing common for all atheists is lack of faith in a 'creator/deity'. That's it. Anyone trying to make it out to be more is probably trying to sell you something. Probably a religion ^_^
Well, it's kinda the point, don't you think? Of course people will always try to make a buck with anything, it's called business, and has nothing to do with faith (or lack thereof).
Funny though that the catholic establishment clearly use their flock as what they say they are: sheeps.
And thats a real centuries old cow-milking business!
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." ~Berthold Auerbach
Well, it's kinda the point, don't you think? Of course people will always try to make a buck with anything, it's called business, and has nothing to do with faith (or lack thereof).
Funny though that the catholic establishment clearly use their flock as what they say they are: sheeps.
And thats a real centuries old cow-milking business!
There is nothing wrong with people coming together under a common ideology. We are humans, social creatures. It's natural to long for company, and if it happens to be with people who think the same way you do, all the better.
People are fed up with atheists because they are loud. But what the fuck do they expect? When there are visible harms coming out of religion and religious propaganda paints us as the devil incarnate, well, fuck that, I sure as hell won't sit down and shut up. We did that for thousands of years, and the dark ages were a lovely time, weren't they?
Well, it's kinda the point, don't you think? Of course people will always try to make a buck with anything, it's called business, and has nothing to do with faith (or lack thereof).
Funny though that the catholic establishment clearly use their flock as what they say they are: sheeps.
And thats a real centuries old cow-milking business!
There is nothing wrong with people coming together under a common ideology. We are humans, social creatures. It's natural to long for company, and if it happens to be with people who think the same way you do, all the better.
People are fed up with atheists because they are loud. But what the fuck do they expect? When there are visible harms coming out of religion and religious propaganda paints us as the devil incarnate, well, fuck that, I sure as hell won't sit down and shut up. We did that for thousands of years, and the dark ages were a lovely time, weren't they?
Atheists are loud? I find it to be the exact opposite on a general basis. And where are people fed up with them? Sure there is Guy_Incognito's ignorant comment but that is hardly proof of people being fed up.
I never considered it to be an issue myself, but after reading/listening to what some people are saying about the situation in the States, you might think there is a war going on
Over here I don't think anyone would even care what you believe (or don't)...
Last edited by MinderMast on Mon, 17th Dec 2012 00:11; edited 1 time in total
Atheists are loud? I find it to be the exact opposite on a general basis. And where are people fed up with them? Sure there is Guy_Incognito's ignorant comment but that is hardly proof of people being fed up.
Of course I mean the activist sort of atheist. You know, the kind of guys who put up billboards on Times Square.
Spoiler:
They are loud and proud. If I lived in the US, I might even go seek some part time job with them, since I like their jabs at the ridiculous religious privilege that exists in the world today.
They are loud in the same sense as the LGBT movement is loud. They don't just sit down and shut up, but voice their opinions.
As for being fed up, well just look at opinion polls, or public appearances. People always come with "why do you have to be so angry all the time"? There is of course Greta Christina's wonderful video about this very topic, well worth a watch.
Spoiler:
I guess people are so used to their undeserved privilege, that any sort of attack on it is immediately drummed up and they try to shoot it down by feigning the "would you shut up already" mentality.
Atheists are loud? I find it to be the exact opposite on a general basis. And where are people fed up with them? Sure there is Guy_Incognito's ignorant comment but that is hardly proof of people being fed up.
Of course I mean the activist sort of atheist. You know, the kind of guys who put up billboards on Times Square.
Spoiler:
They are loud and proud. If I lived in the US, I might even go seek some part time job with them, since I like their jabs at the ridiculous religious privilege that exists in the world today.
They are loud in the same sense as the LGBT movement is loud. They don't just sit down and shut up, but voice their opinions.
As for being fed up, well just look at opinion polls, or public appearances. People always come with "why do you have to be so angry all the time"? There is of course Greta Christina's wonderful video about this very topic, well worth a watch.spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDnfnM7fiKc[/spoiler]I guess people are so used to their undeserved privilege, that any sort of attack on it is immediately drummed up and they try to shoot it down by feigning the "would you shut up already" mentality.
I think its implied in being an activist that you are "loud" . Its sort of the job description.
Anyway splitting hairs but I would call atheists a silent minority and certainly not a loud demographic
I think its implied in being an activist that you are "loud" . Its sort of the job description.
Anyway splitting hairs but I would call atheists a silent minority and certainly not a loud demographic
Of course, the wast majority is just regular people living their regular lives. But there are loud elements in there and the religious always try to shoo them away (but since they can't burn us at the stakes any more, they can't get rid of us ).
I'm so fucking annoyed when people say agnostics are neutral. They are not.
Gnosticism (or agnosticism) is a simple statement that you are sure (from Greek "gnosis"- knowledge, or from Latin cognoscere- to know, to have knowledge of) or not sure that something exists. A simple graph presents it very well.
It's as if people treat agnosticism as a middle ground, like you go
I'm so fucking annoyed when people say agnostics are neutral. They are not.
Gnosticism (or agnosticism) is a simple statement that you are sure (from Greek "gnosis"- knowledge, or from Latin cognoscere- to know, to have knowledge of) or not sure that something exists. A simple graph presents it very well.
It's as if people treat agnosticism as a middle ground, like you go
Christian -> agnostic > atheist
I wrote a paragraph for this, but decided to delete it. Calling the elitist-agnostics intellectual snobs just wasn't tactful. Glad to see someone taking the time.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
ID say truly I'm agnostic, highly leaning towards atheism for all practical purposes.
agnostic in the way of, that I CAN be convinced he's real if given overwhelming evidence. But not in the way of "I have no opinion either way".
Think of it like a court trial. no evidence, claims, or counter arguments given for god have had any merit beyond hearsay and opinion.
So at this time, based on the evidence given..and constantly given, there is no proof of a god.
Reason I say leaning towards atheism...Best example is the OJ Simpson Trial.
The defense keeps giving the same evidence that was dismissed before, dodging the real case, and tossing up the same fluff. After a while you just want to go "ok ok, we all know he did it, unless you can give DIFFERENT evidence, we all know he did it. We are really tired of the useless stuff you keep presenting us.The trial is over the horse is dead, quit pointing to its twitching leg as signs of life"
And religion gets off with a technicality(like OJ did sort of), of something totally unrelated called "dogma". As if because its religion, its not OK to correct someone that believes something that is wrong.
Say my son came home and told me he thought his school was cleaned by magical flying janitors at night based on what he sees (or actually what he doesnt see..and assumes). I could present him with the evidence and facts its just normal people and hes more educated for it. But somehow if flying janitors was a religion. I'm belittled and told I'm not allowed to show him they aren't real, because Im violating his 'right' to think they are.
So at this time god, by my ruling, is guilty of not-existing.
There is good evidence on the prosecutors side showing he cant. And nothing but an old book, with unverified sources, and 3rd party testimony on the defenses side.
So I am holding that ruling as the truth, until an appeal is made by presenting new evidence. No amount of giving the same evidence that was dismissed will overturn that ruling.
Plus I've found telling religious people I'm 'agnostic" makes them go "ohhh ohhh I see a crack, we MUST talk to him to get our foot in that tiny hole I see!"
So I just tell them pure atheist, with not one flaw in my wall of disbelief..so they go away.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Funny how atheists think they are neutral and the religious people are extreme. Well guess what, you are two sides of the same coin. Agnostics are neutral, and I don't know who is getting on my nerves more, either religious or proud-to-be-atheists. You are all claiming shit you can't support.
You simply don't understand the basic definition of atheism:
A LACK of Belief in God(s). That's ALL it means. That's the base. Then people have created different paths and forms, but that doesn't affect the fact that atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in any gods.
There are anti-religious groups that show zealotry in trying to get rid of religion in society, there are human rights groups (esp. in the US) that works for having the same human rights as christians, something that in practice is false in huge parts of America.
But them being atheists is just incidental and doesn't have anything to do with their anti-religious/human rights work.
Atheism in itself is not an ideology, it's not a pseudo-religion, it's not anti-religious, it's not anti-spiritual... It is only a LACK of belief in any gods. There are atheistic movements within Buddhism.
Yea frant, I myself am not claiming things I cant support. I'm just pointing out to the other side needs to quit pointing out things they can't support as if its facts also.
Faith doesn't equal true..its faith. keep it in that context.
Have any belief you want to, you can think a god made all squirrels, and humans must bring them nuts as a worship ritual. Have fun with it.
But when you come to me and go "SEE! squirrels eat nuts, they live in trees where nuts are..we have arms and legs to climb trees..so obviously we must use them to climb and get nuts for the squirrels by gods will!" I will point out they are assuming things because want to believe its true..not that it is true.
I'm one of the most docile atheists you can meet, up to the point someone doesn't want to be a docile theist. THEN i will be more vocal than they are.
Because I know it's not that I'm trying to argue with them god doesn't exist thats a pointless argument neither side can win, IF he does or doesn't is actually beside the point.
I'm arguing the wacky rules that we have made up based on tradition, and the oxymoronic traits we have gave him they keep tossing out as truth.
I may not be able to convince you if he do or doesn't exist. But if you want to get on your god high horse, I sure can point out and make you flounder around on the WAYS you worship him making them seem as silly as waving dead chickens over dead relatives to guide their spirit to heaven..because you are fussing at others for not doing them.
Or when they want to use their boogey man to try to scare me into doing what they want..
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
I despise most religion due to the fact that they're all based on twisted, skewed and transformed archetypes from the early history of man. Religion is used to control people in many different ways, often to the detriment of humanity.
That that has got nothing to do with my atheism. There are people that believe in God or a higher being that aren't religious and don't subscribe to any popular existing faith. They're theists but not religious.
ps. in my eyes faith is the opposite of knowledge.
Well, many atheists (especially the more vocal ones) tend to lean towards a much stronger postion than "A LACK of Belief in God(s)". It's more along the lines of "A BELIEF that NO God(s) exist" - which is basically not that different in essence from most religions.
Well, many atheists (especially the more vocal ones) tend to lean towards a much stronger postion than "A LACK of Belief in God(s)". It's more along the lines of "A BELIEF that NO God(s) exist" - which is basically not that different in essence from most religions.
That's not pure atheism, that's something called "Strong Atheism" and is a more active form. It's a sub-type. There are many sub-types.
Theism = belief in God(s)
A-Theism = no belief in God(s)
no belief = lack of belief.
Then the strong atheists have an active belief that God does not exist. A more proper label for them would be anti-theists.
Well, many atheists (especially the more vocal ones) tend to lean towards a much stronger postion than "A LACK of Belief in God(s)". It's more along the lines of "A BELIEF that NO God(s) exist" - which is basically not that different in essence from most religions.
I don't see what that has got to do with religion. Religion is a system of dogmas, beliefs and rules. There are people that believe in God/a God without being religious. The essence between these strong atheists/anti-theists and religion is huge indeed since there are, afaik, no dogmas, no rules, rites or anything else than the belief that god (most likely the abrahamic gods) does not exist. They don't know, they just believe he doesn't exist.
Personally I lack any faith or belief in a God just as I lack any faith or belief in Elvis being alive 10 parsecs perpendicular to our solar system recording new albums.
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