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 Posted: Sat, 22nd Sep 2012 16:14 Post subject: Publishers accused of trying to exploit Kickstarter |
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| Quote: | If a known developer is using Kickstarter to fund its next game, be careful -- the money might end up getting used to ostensibly give a major publisher a new game for free. Obsidian CEO Feargus Urquhart has revealed that publishers tried to use his company for that very purpose.
"We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter," he revealed on his team's own KS page. "I said to them 'So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for, using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits.' |
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Sep 2012 17:59 Post subject: |
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The problem isn't funding their games through Kickstarter, they have the right to use it as everyone else. The problem is funding their games through eg Obsidian's name, while in essence it's a eg EA game.
Oh and, riposte!
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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b0se
Banned
Posts: 5901
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Sep 2012 18:02 Post subject: |
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Fucking finally, I was starting to get sick from all this kickstarted bullshit.
[spoiler][quote="SteamDRM"]i've bought mohw :derp: / FPS of the year! [/quote]
[quote="SteamDRM"][quote="b0se"]BLACK OPS GOTY[/quote]
No.[/quote][/spoiler]
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Sep 2012 18:34 Post subject: |
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| b0se wrote: | | Fucking finally, I was starting to get sick from all this kickstarted bullshit. |
word! time for EA to assume direct control
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no9999
Posts: 3437
Location: Behind you...
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JackQ
Non-expret in Derps lagunge
Posts: 14178
Location: Kibbutznik, Israel
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 11:41 Post subject: |
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Valve: ‘only 60% of Kickstarter games will actually launch’
| Quote: | Valve’s Chet Faliszek has predicted to VG247 that only 60% of successfully funded Kickstarter projects will see the light of day. Although the developer has personally funded a lot of Kickstarter projects himself, he has warned of the potential dangers of the crowd-sourcing method.
“I’ve funded a lot of things on Kickstarter,” Faliszek told us in our interview, “I figure 60% of these projects will actually create something by the end, and I’m fine with that. It’s going to be interesting for projects that take a long time, for teams that aren’t as experienced, seeing what people think, and to see what’s going to happen two or three years from now.”
“Are they actually going to deliver and come through with it?” Faliszek mused, “So yeah, that will be interesting to see. But I do hope that it maintains being a viable way, because I love being able to see people saying, ‘yeah, I’m just going to do this project.’”
Faliszek has recently hosted a number of lectures that discuss ways in which aspiring game developers can break into the games industry, and he firmly believes that you don’t have to make a full game to be successful.
“You can make things in Steam Workshop,” he continued, “People laugh when I say that, but it’s like, people have earned six-figure incomes by doing that. We’ve given millions of dollars to people, so that’s a viable way to go about getting into the games industry.”
“Then of course the indie scene – what’s happening there right now is powerful, because it’s giving so many people opportunities, and fuelling more people to do that,” he added.
Valve has also recently launched Steam Greenlight, a platform for developers to submit their titles for community approval on the store. Faliszek urges anyone who thinks they have made a solid indie game to come forward and make themselves known.
“That just came out of a necessity as we were getting very backlogged with requests,” Faliszek said of Greenlight, “It’s hard because we never know if we’re making a bad choice or not in accepting games on to Steam.”
“If someone wants to be on Steam they can say, ‘hey guys check this game out, it really should be on Steam, it’s awesome.’ We’re always going to be missing things when people aren’t submitting their games but should be, so Greenlight just makes it a very open choice as it’s the community that decides.”
Do you agree with Faliszek’s comments? Let us know below. |
http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/30/valve-60-of-kickstarter-games-will-actually-launch/
"Fuck Denuvo"
Your personal opinions != the rest of the forum
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 11:53 Post subject: |
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Trying to pitch steam and belittle kickstarter 
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:23 Post subject: |
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Not really, he said he likes it and uses it alot despite the risks. He didn't really say it as a negative.
Don't forget that more Kickstarter funded games = more PC games = more games on Steam.
All those Kickstarter games promise a copy on Steam etc, no?  Valve couldn't be more happy about Kickstarter or anything similar that allows people that otherwise wouldn't be able (easily) to make PC games. 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:27 Post subject: |
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Well, it's not bad estimate.
Just become someone gave money does not make project successful. It may not get released, or even worse, released as a bad game.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:31 Post subject: |
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And about 30% of games that have funding never get released lol nba live (the last 2-3 ones) comes to mind.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:49 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | The problem isn't funding their games through Kickstarter, they have the right to use it as everyone else. The problem is funding their games through eg Obsidian's name, while in essence it's a eg EA game.
Oh and, riposte! |
What is this based on?
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:53 Post subject: |
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Hm.. what do you mean?
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:54 Post subject: |
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Ah nevermind, you were speaking in general terms. I thought you meant EA was behind Obsidian's current KS project.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 12:55 Post subject: |
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TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 13:00 Post subject: |
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For the record, IMO, publishers putting their games on KS and people actually KSing "publisher" games, I find these two equally troubling.
But I can't find an actual reason for them to not be allowed to do it, no matter how it troubles me.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
Last edited by consolitis on Sun, 30th Sep 2012 13:04; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 13:02 Post subject: |
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I find it deeply troubling and most certainly shouldn't be allowed. Small, and even large (as is the case with Obs) teams go to Kickstarter to raise funding for their projects because publishers refused to help. The idea of a publisher then using KS as another revenue for themselves? No, I find that incredibly insulting and most definitely shouldn't be allowed.
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 13:11 Post subject: |
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I know from a credible source that this is a tale of the ages.
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 13:30 Post subject: |
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They have every right. We as customers have the same amount of right not to humor them with our money.
As for doing it covertly, yeah, that should be disallowed and should be banned as soon as it comes to light. But if they do it above the table? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just another form of pre-orders.
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Oct 2012 00:50 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | Not really, he said he likes it and uses it alot despite the risks. He didn't really say it as a negative.
Don't forget that more Kickstarter funded games = more PC games = more games on Steam.
All those Kickstarter games promise a copy on Steam etc, no? Valve couldn't be more happy about Kickstarter or anything similar that allows people that otherwise wouldn't be able (easily) to make PC games. |
 hell no they only are jelly about it and starting to pimp out theirs own KICK with named GREEN LIGHT |
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Oct 2012 04:08 Post subject: |
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It might be morally questionable for big publishers to exploit KS, but legally there is nothing to stop them from doing it. Money before ethics!
| TheBugulous wrote: | There is only 1 Mega Awesome title coming & that is Chris Taylor's latest opus ... <drum roll>
S U P R E M E C O M M A N D E R !!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Oct 2012 06:12 Post subject: |
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| JackQ wrote: | Valve: ‘only 60% of Kickstarter games will actually launch’
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That's part of the reason why I've only funded Obsidian and InXile. Their games seem to have a good chance of releasing due to the experience of the teams behind them.
I think unknown developers need to have a lot to show during their campaign if they want to be successful, FTL and Banner Saga are examples of how to do it right.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9467
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Oct 2012 11:29 Post subject: Re: Publishers accused of trying to exploit Kickstarter |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | | Quote: | If a known developer is using Kickstarter to fund its next game, be careful -- the money might end up getting used to ostensibly give a major publisher a new game for free. Obsidian CEO Feargus Urquhart has revealed that publishers tried to use his company for that very purpose.
"We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter," he revealed on his team's own KS page. "I said to them 'So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for, using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits.' |
Source |
Well.. if by exploiting you mean: they provide organization, distribution, a safety net in case the project runs out of funds, then yes.. there might be publishers out there hoping to ride the kickstarter wave.. are they worse than the dozens of other independent developers who do the same?
We will see at least some of the big kickstarter projects fail in a year or two and if I would have to bet, I would say it will not be the ones with publishers behind them.
What we have now is pretty much the gold rush phase of crowd funding. It is a new concept, seems promising, but we are still in free fall and there is no telling as of yet, whether there will be solid rock or lots of pillows underneath us when we land.
What people are not getting (yet) is that publishing is a risky business. A publisher gives money to a company in exchange for the promise that the company will deliver something they can sell. It is an investment and as with every investment, publishers try to minimize their risk by investing into genres and products and companies that are proven to be successful. Crowd funding has the same risk, but in exchange were are "merely" offered a game and no share of the eventual profits, so in a sense we are a lot worse off than a publisher would be in the same situation. In fact, a publisher can cut its losses if it sees a project fail, by withholding parts of the funds if the project fails to meet milestones, etc. Crowd funding pays for everything up front and once they have our money, we literally have no say in what they do with it.
Everyone has big and great ideas they would love to get money for, but only a marginal percentage of those "great" ideas would actually stand the test of reality.
Crowd funding really turned things upside down, as now almost every idea will get funded, if they can present it promisingly enough and often by people who just have no sense of reality, so in essence people are willingly giving out money for feasibility studies of new ideas.
This would be a very cool thing, if those same people would not expect a product at the end of the process, but - and it takes no big visionary to predict this - a good portion of those projects will never come to fruition, or the end result will be worthless.
Furthermore, as we are investing into often vague ideas here, everyone imagines how it will work a little differently, meaning that at the end, a big portion of the players will just not get what they imagined they were paying for, so even if the project succeeds and produces a decent end result, there will be a portion of the backers who just will not be satisfied with it, as it will not match their vision.
I predict the whole crowd funding thing to die in its current form as soon as the big failures start to roll in, but this most definitely is good for one thing. It shows that the people are in fact willing to put up money up front if they are promised something decent and if that trust survives the fall of kickstarter, we might see a shift in the whole publishing business, where instead of publishers picking and funding projects, we will have players do that, with the publishers being only there to provide the framework in which the system works (and of course to reap the profits, as companies always do)
Even if my vision from above comes true, I do not necessarily see this as a bad thing personally as it would still provide the benefits of the current system where less popular genres also have a chance of getting funded, while also give projects (and backers) a safety net to rely on if things go wrong.
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Oct 2012 15:08 Post subject: Re: Publishers accused of trying to exploit Kickstarter |
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| csebal wrote: | | with the publishers being only there to provide the framework in which the system works (and of course to reap the profits, as companies always do) |
If the big publishers enters in the process I really doubt that they will only provide the framework. They will end up interfering with the whole process, because to be honest they want just want the profits and the chance to get more profits.
We will see developers to going through the same process that the guys from Grim Dawn have been through with Titan Quest.
Of course there are a few small decent publishers, that probably could help in the way foresee. But in order to this to work we need that publishers had a different mentality has most have now.
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The whole idea of Kickstarter is crowdfunding for teams, developers, etc that don't have the starting capital to create the project alone. I really don't think publishers should be allowed to use the service and by doing so they're just making a mockery of it.
