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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73246
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:03 Post subject: Crime is the theft of freedom.. |
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Crime is the theft of freedom, everything else is a derivation of it.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73246
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:03 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73246
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:03 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: | | I would bet that if a thread such as this, were to be started by anyone else in this forum, there wouldn't be a single troll post. |
Theory proven wrong. |
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13522
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:06 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:33; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:34 Post subject: |
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I really wish sYn was in worse mood earlier today...
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:35 Post subject: |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51443
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:38 Post subject: |
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Take care, your hand might get nixed 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65097
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 21:59 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | I was on a beastiality forum and we had a serious discussion about this, without troll posts  |
+1!  There's really no decency left. |
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 22:57 Post subject: |
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Gangnam style baby
ASUS TUF B550M-PLUS | RYZEN 5600x | RTX 3060TI | 16GB DDR4
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 23:09 Post subject: Re: Crime is the theft of freedom.. |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | Crime is the theft of freedom, everything else is a derivation of it. |
ok serious response then..to a silly statement
Freedom is a privilege not a right. I wish for someone to prove a universal law that grants the right to freedom. Its a construct of a thinking mind of its desires to do as it wishes. nothing more. Nothing in the material universe since the big bang has any granted or imposed laws of freedom applied to it, what the universe does with it is the universes bidding.
a catch22, philosophical bullshit that only pertains to thought experiments of giving yourself delusions of what freedom is.
--edit:--
OHHH it a copy of a Nhiumewyn thread...now it makes sense..
one of the "I got the flowchart here, on paper it makes perfect sense in my head" ideals of trying to apply logical rigidity of a narrow scope to human situations on a whole..
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73246
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 23:17 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73246
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 23:19 Post subject: |
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 So I post this, and I get a serious response ahahah Ronhrin was right |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 23:23 Post subject: |
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I reply seriously to his..until he wanders off into 'RonLand' where taxes are abolished, the only thing you own is what you touch, and land cant be 'owned' but I can be shot for walking on the land he doesn't own, but claims he owns somehow. And derailing the debate by arguing the semantics of what words 'mean'..when we both know the implied meaning in the context.
You could ask Ron "how was lunch" and get a response of "It was good, but I got taxed on the bill for it" then a 20 minute tyrant of how taxes is wrong, and his sandwich tasted tainted of the bitter greed of government..
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 00:25 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | I reply seriously to his..until he wanders off into 'RonLand' where taxes are abolished, the only thing you own is what you touch, and land cant be 'owned' but I can be shot for walking on the land he doesn't own, but claims he owns somehow. And derailing the debate by arguing the semantics of what words 'mean'..when we both know the implied meaning in the context.
You could ask Ron "how was lunch" and get a response of "It was good, but I got taxed on the bill for it" then a 20 minute tyrant of how taxes is wrong, and his sandwich tasted tainted of the bitter greed of government.. |
I love you so much roflmao |
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 01:38 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | I reply seriously to his..until he wanders off into 'RonLand' where taxes are abolished, the only thing you own is what you touch, and land cant be 'owned' but I can be shot for walking on the land he doesn't own, but claims he owns somehow. And derailing the debate by arguing the semantics of what words 'mean'..when we both know the implied meaning in the context.
You could ask Ron "how was lunch" and get a response of "It was good, but I got taxed on the bill for it" then a 20 minute tyrant of how taxes is wrong, and his sandwich tasted tainted of the bitter greed of government.. |
Your problem, and the problem of many is the inability to distinguish between facts (concrete or abstract) and claims.
All claims are invalid until proven.
There can be no ownership of anything until factually proven.
Every argument offered to justify the ownership of land and resources is not an argument, it is a claim.
"We own it because we all agree we do and we will enforce ourl claim if anyone disagrees"
There is a reason as to why I can justify the ownership of the products of my labor, if its ultimately valid or invalid is always opened for discussion. But there is a consistent logical argument sustaining the premise that we all own the direct products of our labor.
There isn't any argument that justifies your claim of ownership of land or resources.
Therefore to put this simply, it can be discussed if I can own or not something that I produce. That can be tested and discussed, what it can't be discussed is that land is owned, because there simply is no argument that can hold that claim.
It may yet be proven that I don't own anything, but it has already been proven that land cannot possibly be owned.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 01:52 Post subject: |
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Show me the universal laws that set to define what sets ownership
I know the laws of thermodynamics exist.
Laws of gravity exist
Laws of quantum energy exist..etc etc
I don't remember a "Law of ownership" in any classes I took.
If you can, I concede..if not its an opinionated claim, and we all know all claims are invalid until proven.
So until you can prove evidence of one..ownership is nothing more than an abstract ideal individual to each person that lays claim to it, by their consciousnesses reasoning they "own" it.
It can be tested that you own something you created? what tests exist to validate this? there is a set of standard tests to gauge the rightful ownership of something by the effort involved in its final state? No there is not...you know what IS available to test it? opinions of those involved in it.
You confuse "facts of ownership" with "claim of ownership".The first one, if it existed, could be universally tested and falified by independant sources..the other is you going "Thats mine because what I(singular point perspective) consider the requirement of ownership to be, and I possess those requirements"
You confuse "universal laws of absolutes" with "laws of man"...laws of man are not technically laws..they are just opinions the majority agree upon to uphold. they can be (and often are) changed, modified, nullified or reversed as needed. And can be broken or ignored..such as breaking the 'law' by violating one of the majority held 'opinions' of what is legal.
Universal laws do not change, regardless if we want them to, or wish they wasn't...
So following that logic, your 'law' of ownership is an opinion of ownership, or as the actual term itself implies 'claim of ownership' that you agree personally as a group of one(yourself) to uphold..but its not a 'universal truth' as you keep trying to portray it as.
The very example its not, is I disagree with what makes ownership, and NO tests can be given that validate or dismiss either by falsification of them. So at MOST you can do is claim its your 'theory of ownership' if you need a technical term to apply to it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:03 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | Show me the universal laws that set to define what sets ownership
I know the laws of thermodynamics exist.
Laws of gravity exist
Laws of quantum energy exist..etc etc
I don't remember a "Law of ownership" in any classes I took.
If you can, I concede..if not its an opinionated claim, and we all know all claims are invalid until proven.
So until you can prove evidence of one..ownership is nothing more than an abstract ideal individual to each person that lays claim to it, by their consciousnesses reasoning they "own" it.
It can be tested that you own something you created? what tests exist to validate this? there is a set of standard tests to gauge the rightful ownership of something by the effort involved in its final state? No there is not...you know what IS available to test it? opinions of those involved in it.
You confuse "facts of ownership" with "claim of ownership" the first one, if it existed, could be universally tested and falified by independant sources..the other is you going "Thats mine because what I(singular point perspective) consider the requirement of ownership to be, and I possess those requirements"
You confuse "universal laws of absolutes" with "laws of man"...laws of man are not technically laws..they are just opinions the majority agree upon to uphold. they can be (and often are) changed, modified, nullified or reversed as needed.
So following that logic, your 'law' of ownership is an opinion of ownership, you agree personally as a group of one(yourself) to uphold..but its not a 'universal truth' as you keep trying to portray it as.
The very example its not, is I disagree with what makes ownership, and NO tests can be given that validate or dismiss either by falsification of them. So at MOST you do do is claim its your 'theory of ownership' if you need a technical term to apply to it. |
I wasn't attempting to justify my "thesis of ownership" with my latest post, if you want to discuss it, go back to the other thread and we'll discuss it again.
Read my previous post again, I was merely stating the argument that, my thesis can be discussed, but when it comes to the ownership of land and resources, there is no thesis, no argument, merely an opinion claimed and enforced by the masses.
I wasn't attempting to prove my point, I was merely disproving theirs.
If, like you said, you're unaware of any proven, testable, universal definition of ownership. Then, all ownership of land and resources is nothing more than a claim.
With that line of reasoning you just conceded that neither your government or its people can possible own your country, they've effected a claim and enforce it on others, but they cannot possible own it.
I'm not justifying "my religion" as you once said, I'm merely proving that your god does not exist.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:08 Post subject: |
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By your facts of ownership..who owns the moon? many countries have 'modified it by their labor" while on moon walks, and if labor is all that's need to stake the flag of ownership on an item..so obviously one of them owns it.
Or is there some unseen limit of the mass of an item that can be owned..that after a certain mass it can no longer be deemed as own-able..if not then who owns the earth? many many men have put much labor into changing it as a singular object...
if I go outside and shovel some dirt, do I own the earth? as it as a whole I have modified with my labor.. such as whittling a piece of wood, no matter how minute the whittle, changes the wood and ownership of said wood.
My shovel full, no matter how small in scale, modified the planet as a whole....
where do these 'fuzzy logic' lines get drawn in your laws of ownership that seem so well defined on the surface.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:12 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | By your facts of ownership..who owns the moon? many countries have 'modified it by their labor" while on moon walks, and if labor is all that's need to stake the flag of ownership on an item..so obviously one of them owns it.
Or is there some unseen limit of the mass of an item that can be owned..that after a certain mass it can no longer be deemed as own-able..if not then who owns the earth? many many men have put much labor into changing it as a singular object...
if I go outside and shovel some dirt, do I own the earth? as it as a whole I have modified with my labor.. such as whittling a piece of wood, no matter how minute the whittle, changes the wood and ownership of said wood.
My shovel full, no matter how small in scale, modified the planet as a whole....
where do these 'fuzzy logic' lines get drawn in your laws of ownership that seem so well defined on the surface. |
Again, I'm not discussing my thesis, fact, principle, whatever you want to call it, in this thread.
I'm merely stating that no one owns anything until a logical argument of ownership has been presented.
The burden of proof is on your side, and it should be me to ask the question.
Who owns your country and all its resources? And why?
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:13 Post subject: |
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Ok to put it in a metaphor such as the religion and god statement:
My god my not exist, But the one your using to debunk mine is just as imaginary and mystical as my own..and we both argue that the others god is just a fantasy...while both not able to disprove it beyond "nope, yours is fake, mine is real as we both know there is no way to test it beyond opinion of gods".
the difference is I concede to go "you have you god of man laws, I have mine" while you go "NO yours is fake, and mine is real..so agree mines more real and we can walk away"
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:17 Post subject: |
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By my laws or yours? using yours..no idea..as the land isn't a singular object..its merely an illusion of land by 'boundaries' of ocean..the land as a whole is the planet, all collective in one object on a large scale..why I was asking you who owned it..
You cannot say that "if I whittle wood, the wood I own is whats left after I discards the waste I took off by my labor"
While saying "if i modify the planet whats mine is what I took off by my labor, the rest I cant own.."
by that logic..you don't own the wood, you own what you took off...or you own the planet, and DONT own what you removed from it.
which is it?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:18 Post subject: |
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Or is it that the ownership varies by the object in question, based on your perspective of it...which is an opinion of what that objects ownership status is...
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:19 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | Ok to put it in a metaphor such as the religion and god statement:
My god my not exist, But the one your using to debunk mine is just as imaginary and mystical as my own..and we both argue that the others god is just a fantasy...while both not able to disprove it beyond "nope, yours is fake, mine is real as we both know there is no way to test it beyond opinion of gods".
the difference is I concede to go "you have you god of man laws, I have mine" while you go "NO yours is fake, and mine is real..so agree mines more real and we can walk away" |
Wrong, I have no laws, I accept no concepts that cannot be proven.
There is no ownership of anything until you present a proper definition ow ownership.
If your argument is along the lines of "ownership is derived of mass agreement" then, you haven't presented a fact or a proof, merely a claim, and all claims are meaningless.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:21 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | | Or is it that the ownership varies by the object in question, based on your perspective of it...which is an opinion of what that objects ownership status is... |
You are asking me to justify my thesis, and I have a response for you but I will only do it in the other thread.
I'm merely responding to your initial post on this thread, don't change and mix the subjects.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:23 Post subject: |
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Then prove to me you own your car...or is it you 'claim' to own your car?
what proof you have? paper? that was man made, and the opinion of the guy that sold it to you that he gave you rights to what was his...based on 'man made opinions' of what was legal at the time of the transaction.
if that paper you have that shows ownership is the end proof, if I steal said paper, is the car mine? I possess the proof that deems ownership. You'd probably say no..I Dont even if I have the paper..because its a mental construct of understanding that i unrightfully took the paper...so the paper is meaningless by that fact.
What gives you ownership of it? a "majority of others" agreeing that even if I have every shred of paper that says its mine, that in 'their opinion' its yours and I must give it back.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:26 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: |
You are asking me to justify my thesis, and I have a response for you but I will only do it in the other thread.
I'm merely responding to your initial post on this thread, don't change and mix the subjects. |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11433
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:27 Post subject: |
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| Nhiumewyn wrote: |
You are asking me to justify my thesis, and I have a response for you but I will only do it in the other thread.
I'm merely responding to your initial post on this thread, don't change and mix the subjects. |
I'm not asking you to justify anything..
I'm asking you to correct your outward appearance you force that what you display is truths, and any deviation from it is a 'non-truth' because of internal logic you have applied to other differences in logic must be shown to be flawed, as its not seen as an opinion by you..
To a stance of its merely your opinion (even if a deeply rooted and ingrained one) that you are portraying. and that disagreement with it is NOT a untruth that needs to be 'corrected right', but is a disagreement of your personal views..and nothing more than that.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2012 02:29 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | | Nhiumewyn wrote: |
You are asking me to justify my thesis, and I have a response for you but I will only do it in the other thread.
I'm merely responding to your initial post on this thread, don't change and mix the subjects. |
I'm not asking you to justify anything..
I'm asking you to correct your outward appearance you force that what you display is truths, and any deviation from it is a 'non-truth' because of internal logic you have applied to other differences in logic must be shown to be flawed, as its not seen as an opinion by you..
To a stance of its merely your opinion (even if a deeply rooted and ingrained one) that you are portraying. and that disagreement with it is NOT a untruth that needs to be 'corrected right', but is a disagreement of your personal views..and nothing more than that. |
Forget that you're talking to me for one second, imagine I'm just another guy you've meet online.
Now..
Does anyone own your country? Why?
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