Insulting Religion
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 14:39    Post subject: Insulting Religion




And I might only add that I actively take this stance not only applied to religion, but also any other imaginary meta construct such as the State or any other form of belief there is.


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- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:10    Post subject:
Like anarchy? Cool Face


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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:19    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
Like anarchy? Cool Face


And since when is Anarchy a belief system? I reckon many might interpret it that way, just as for some persons, Atheism becomes a system of belief, but in truth they are the absence of any belief on any system of authority or meta physical meaning or purpose in nature and the emergence of the conscious mind.


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:25    Post subject:
♪Here he goes again on his own. Trotting out the only rant he's ever known.♪


Not another thread about anarchy Sad
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WaldoJ
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:29    Post subject:
... seriously? post this in the useless void or in your anarchy thread or in the internet links section where a lot of this stuff is there. I agree with what he's saying. But I don't agree with you. As you shove your ideals onto everyone else. Neutral

So i'm torn. Between that guy and you.
I don't really like the guy. I do like his message. But I don't like him at all. (i have my 'derp' reasons)

And then there's you. You hold your ground. Everyone but you is a wrong infant who will not get any attention from you.

I agree with some of your ideals. I do not agree with the way you go on about 'forcing' them
onto others.

That's that. Toodleloo and may star be upon you.

(ps. they found a place that predates religion so now earth is 12000 years old Surprised)


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I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself.
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:30    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
♪Here he goes again on his own. Trotting out the only rant he's ever known.♪


Not another thread about anarchy Sad


Tell me something then, why do you jump so proudly and invested in a thread if it's about mocking religion, but when it's about mocking an equally absurd belief system (which is what the State is) you get so angry and tired?

I've lost count of the amount of threads this forum has gotten about religion, and they never get old or become uninteresting...


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:32    Post subject:
Because religion, the act of worshipping a fictional father-figure who supposedly created the world in six days and whom every human being is the incestuous offspring of a man and his rib, is worthy of being mocked. A governmental society isn't.

I just find it amazing how a video from a known, and logical, atheist can somehow be coopted into yet another rant about anarchy and the evils of paying taxes. GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY.

End of discussion.
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human_steel




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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:33    Post subject:
I'm always in when it comes to ridiculing religion and any other form of it. Very Happy
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WaldoJ
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:37    Post subject:
Because human kind has a choice whether or not they want to believe in a bearded man in the sky. We have a choice whether or not a flying spaghetti is going to invade all of us and eat us all with crackers. Heck cthulhu is real too, if you believe in it enough.

Humanity also has a choice whether or not they want to be governed. But I believe that we need a system in place in order to prevent 'certain' things from happening. These certain things you are assured with not, ever, in a millions years after your great great great grandson had passed away, happen. Something you and I will never agree upon.


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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:39    Post subject:
human_steel wrote:
I'm always in when it comes to ridiculing religion and any other form of it. Very Happy


Hell yeah! ^_^
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:44    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
Because religion, the act of worshipping a fictional father-figure who supposedly created the world in six days and whom every human being is the incestuous offspring of a man and his rib, is worthy of being mocked. A governmental society isn't.

I just find it amazing how a video from a known, and logical, atheist can somehow be coopted into yet another rant about anarchy and the evils of paying taxes. GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY.

End of discussion.


You misinterpreted it again, this was never about the ridiculousness of some religious dogmas and they're fictional narratives, (and what you referred in that post was judeo christian philosophy, which isn't the only religion in existence).

This is about systems of belief of meta physical realities and forcing those views onto others, which is what most religions and the State are in their core.

You accept the State because you believe in it, not because there is a logical rationality supporting it, because the day you attempt to make the logical test, the notion of State will collapse in 30 seconds just as the notion of religion does if you theorize about it for an equally amount of time.

All beliefs are meaningless as they are the domain of the individual who defines them, none of them deserve any respect unless they can be proven by logic, at which point they cease to be a belief, but rather a fact.


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759



Last edited by Ronhrin on Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:48; edited 1 time in total
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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:45    Post subject:
No.

You are every bit the fanatic as these religious extremists are. Possibly more so.
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human_steel




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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:52    Post subject:
If there's no State, or any other figuration of governmental power (no matter what it is or how it is structured, or the principles it functions on), then what are we left with? What do you propose so that our lives change for the better? What does Anarchy propose?
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:55    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
No.

You are every bit the fanatic as these religious extremists are. Possibly more so.


No, what?

The State is not a system of belief? (do you really want to go there, because even you have the intelligence to know that statement cannot be supported by anything tangible)

Well, if I'm an extremist in anything, it would be that I do not accept anything for granted.


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 16:55    Post subject:
Ronhrin wrote:
iconized wrote:
Like anarchy? Cool Face


And since when is Anarchy a belief system? I reckon many might interpret it that way, just as for some persons, Atheism becomes a system of belief, but in truth they are the absence of any belief on any system of authority or meta physical meaning or purpose in nature and the emergence of the conscious mind.

Semantics, someone who calls himself an anarchist has a certain belief system.

Edit: In the meanwhile I haven't even seen the vid in the OP. Embarassed
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:01    Post subject:
human_steel wrote:
If there's no State, or any other figuration of governmental power (no matter what it is or how it is structured, or the principles it functions on), then what are we left with? What do you propose so that our lives change for the better? What does Anarchy propose?


I'm not debating Anarchy in this thread, I posted a Pat Condell video and made a comment about it that I agree with him and I extend his argument to every other system of belief there is.

But to answer your question, to which I have already answered in many past threads before, individuals self organize themselves based on free association of self interests and communal aspirations. All judicial legislature would be based upon the concept of the non initiation of the use of force.


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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sabin1981
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:03    Post subject:
Ronhrin wrote:

The State is not a system of belief? (do you really want to go there, because even you have the intelligence to know that statement cannot be supported by anything tangible)


Something is broken inside your mind. Something snapped in there and can never be repaired. You're damaged, sir, twisted and incomplete. I pity you.

Yes, even *I* have the intelligence to see that. Nice dig there mate, slipping back to your old "I'm right, you're too stupid to know any better" attitude? You're a self-loving, self-indulgent, ridiculous person. So utterly convinced of your own superiority (I recommend you read fisk's signature, since it's obvious your parents have destroyed you) that any and all discourse with you is immediately pointless.
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WaldoJ
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:06    Post subject:
So. Rohn. Stfu. Sit in the corner. Close your eyes and for 10 minutes STFU! kthnxbai.
There's an anarchy thread elsewhere. Stick to it. This was about the vid. It got derailed. Now, you as a 'better' person should've been all guys guys guys seriously there's a thread with MY name on it about MY ideals about anarchy. Lets all go to MY thread and let ME tell you how you're all wrong and I'M right.

Rolling Eyes seriously. just seriously. I'll start believing in god because no way no how are you doing this out of your own nature. No one can be that kind of a person. God must've blocked that part of your brain that makes you go hmmmm maybe i shouldn't derail a thread about a cool guy talking about a cool thing.

But nope. God's real. He made you create another anarchy thread simply because we are not worthy of a structured system and you are our new messiah and you have to show us the right of way. We're all lost now in the dark. Be the light. Be the light. Be the fleshlight and let us cum into you!


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I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself.
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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:07    Post subject:
Let's go back to discussing Pat Condell's vid.


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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:10    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
Ronhrin wrote:
iconized wrote:
Like anarchy? Cool Face


And since when is Anarchy a belief system? I reckon many might interpret it that way, just as for some persons, Atheism becomes a system of belief, but in truth they are the absence of any belief on any system of authority or meta physical meaning or purpose in nature and the emergence of the conscious mind.

Semantics, someone who calls himself an anarchist has a certain belief system.

Edit: In the meanwhile I haven't even seen the vid in the OP. Embarassed


That is a flaw of language not of definition.


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- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:17    Post subject:
sabin1981 wrote:
Ronhrin wrote:

The State is not a system of belief? (do you really want to go there, because even you have the intelligence to know that statement cannot be supported by anything tangible)


Something is broken inside your mind. Something snapped in there and can never be repaired. You're damaged, sir, twisted and incomplete. I pity you.

Yes, even *I* have the intelligence to see that. Nice dig there mate, slipping back to your old "I'm right, you're too stupid to know any better" attitude? You're a self-loving, self-indulgent, ridiculous person. So utterly convinced of your own superiority (I recommend you read fisk's signature, since it's obvious your parents have destroyed you) that any and all discourse with you is immediately pointless.


You replied to a previous post of mine with an assertion, I question the nature of that assertion and instead of you replying to it, you focus yourself on criticizing me because of my arrogant stance.

Why this need to react emotionally to my personality rather than focusing solely on the logical nature of the argument itself?... Rolling Eyes


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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human_steel




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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:18    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
Let's go back to discussing Pat Condell's vid.

It's a good video.
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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:23    Post subject:
@Ronhrin: Back to you, you said: "And since when is Anarchy a belief system?" If you think it is natural law or something, the burden of proof lies with you. if you want to try it perhaps first give a clear definition (yours is okay) of anarchy.
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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:30    Post subject:
human_steel wrote:
iconized wrote:
Let's go back to discussing Pat Condell's vid.

It's a good video.

Looks like Pat Condell is a gray ginger btw. Very Happy
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Ronhrin
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:32    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
@Ronhrin: Back to you, you said: "And since when is Anarchy a belief system?" If you think it is natural law or something, the burden of proof lies with you. if you want to try it perhaps first give a clear definition (yours is okay) of anarchy.


Anarchy is in fact a loaded word with many different interpretations, the way I implicitly define it is as the rejection and lack of belief on any system of collective sovereign authority over individuals, it is the state of nature that is ever present in society when individuals interact freely and without imaginary hierarchic relationships.


He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759

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couleur
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:38    Post subject:
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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:48    Post subject:
"collective sovereign authority": Does not exist. It is either collective or sovereign. But a case:
A certain tribe lives by your idea. One day 15 years earlier a male baby gets born, grown up he appears to be extremely strong, stupid and dangerous. On occasion he kills off other tribe's people. What do you do?
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couleur
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:52    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
...
A certain tribe lives by your idea. ...


We would have to know what his "idea" is. There are noumerous different definitions of the concept "state of nature". None of those has ever existed in recorded or known history of mankind. Most thinkers use them to legitimate something else. But his definition of the "state of nature" would be interesting to hear for once.
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TSR69
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:53    Post subject:
He gave his idea of anarchy 3 posts above yours.


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couleur
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PostPosted: Fri, 15th Jul 2011 17:58    Post subject:
iconized wrote:
He gave his idea of anarchy 3 posts above yours.


He says: " it is the state of nature that is ever present in society when individuals interact freely and without imaginary hierarchic relationships."

I do not believe such a state has ever existed and certainliy not "ever present". For me it is a mere postualte without any worth. A rational concept devoid of reality.

But if he could give a more explicit definition of this "state of nature", at least I would be able to tell where he is coming from.

He doesnt ever give information about the "practical" side of his theory. As such, the "idea" is empty.
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