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 Posted: Sun, 4th Dec 2011 21:14 Post subject: New(er) GPU for my truck |
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So, my gpu is not interested in these new games. It just sucks, tbh 
Aaaaaand, i'm looking for a replacement. There are two price limits i've set.
First one is around 150 euros. But, if there's some extra deal, something really extraordinary, i think i could pay maybe around 200 euros.
Here's what i found:
~150e:
AMD Radeon 6870 Sapphire 1GB/DDR5
GeForce GTX560 Gainward 1GB
~200e: (210 euros, to be exact)
AMD Radeon 6950 Sapphire TwinFan 2GB
So, what i want to know is: Is 6950 2GB really worth giving 50-60 euros more than for 6870 1GB?
Aaaand, the second question is: Is my PSU good/strong enough for this ^ GPU?
Oh, and one more thing. It's not easy for me to give 200+ euros for a new GPU, because i work whole month for 250e. So, just so you know what's the situation like.. 
Thanks, in advance
Intel Q9550 @ 3.2GHz + CM Hyper 212+ | Gigabyte P35-DS3P | 6GB DDR2 OCZ 800mhz | ASUS GTX560Ti DirectCUII | Samsung SSD 840EVO 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 1TB | OCZ StealthXStream 500W
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Dec 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
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get the 6950 and unlock it to 6970. Even stock 6950 is much faster than 6870.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Dec 2011 21:40 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | get the 6950 and unlock it to 6970. |
Wasn't that stopped ages ago?
Pretty sure you can't do it with anything other than the first batch and they are long gone.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Dec 2011 22:29 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | | Breezer_ wrote: | | get the 6950 and unlock it to 6970. |
Wasn't that stopped ages ago?
Pretty sure you can't do it with anything other than the first batch and they are long gone. |
You can still unlock the cards, but not as high change.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 03:50 Post subject: |
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The 7970 (GCN) arrives in January. Wait until then.
Oops, you're on a budget. The 2GB 6950 then. And if you can unlock it, even better. The next step above that would be the 570.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:05 Post subject: |
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Will be wanting a new PSU if you get something more powerful.
I would say get a GTX560Ti before a HD6950 though,
It should be cheaper than a HD6950 but perform a the same give or take a lil bit to each card depending on the game.
GTX 560Ti will have more features like physx etc and cope with dx 11 tessellation better too if i recall correctly, and the 3d if you ever wish to go down that road.
EDIT: Nvidia have a retarded naming scheme going on so to be clear it's the GTX 560Ti 384 core card i am talking about, not the new super confusing for customers 560Ti 448 core
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Frant
King's Bounty
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Location: Your Mom
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:34 Post subject: |
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The GTX 560Ti is cheaper and it's pretty neck and neck in terms of fps spread over multiple games.
I don't think there is a good case to choose a HD6950 over it for your average gamer.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
Last edited by Slizza on Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:38; edited 2 times in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:38 Post subject: |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:40 Post subject: |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 04:55 Post subject: |
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I'm not upset, I'm just tired of your extreme bias and one-dimensional narrow mindedness.
The most interesting thing here is that you claim AMD might not be the best option for him (which is YOUR subjective opinion) while I claim the 6950 2GB is what I'd get at that price range.
I've already proven I'm not a brand-fanatic like you are, if he could save up some more money and get the 570 it would be a much better choice since it outperforms all choices at it's price range.
Anyway, we've both given our recommendations, let him choose whatever he want to buy, there's nothing more we can help him with. You're just kicking up the brand-war, something only you are interested in.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 05:05 Post subject: |
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I think it's fair to say a 2gb HD6950 card would be marginally faster in most games than a 1gb GTX560Ti
It will run you upwards of a extra £30 for it though, not sure on euro prices but i assume the differences are the same.
Perhaps instead of throwing personal insults you would like to give a reason why it's better to spend a extra £30+ to get a HD6950?
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 06:40 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | I think it's fair to say a 2gb HD6950 card would be marginally faster in most games than a 1gb GTX560Ti
It will run you upwards of a extra £30 for it though, not sure on euro prices but i assume the differences are the same.
Perhaps instead of throwing personal insults you would like to give a reason why it's better to spend a extra £30+ to get a HD6950? |
Where I live the price difference is £5-10 max.
And if he ever want to run SLI/CF, the CF-scaling of the 6900-series is magnitudes better than SLI-scaling, that's something new with the 6900-series.
Of course, running SLI/CF is in itself a risk to experience issues. (please don't start about drivers etc.)
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 08:59 Post subject: |
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Let me cut through the bullshit above for you Neo:
| Slizza wrote: | | Wasn't that stopped ages ago? |
No, reference 2GB card will still unlock fine; revised cards are the ones that won't unlock anymore.
| Slizza wrote: | | Will be wanting a new PSU if you get something more powerful. |
No, the StealthXtream is not *that* bad in fact. Fairly steady power output, sits close to 80+ Bronze in terms of efficiency and unless he plans to do some serious overclocking, he'll be fine.
As for 560 Ti versus 6950 1GB versus 6950 2GB: depends on what you play exactly and on what resolution. For you, the 2GB will probably not be worth it unless you play at a high resolution (1080p and up) and want to keep MSAA turned on most of the time. Between the other 2 it depends on the game: if it's a TWIMTBP title they'll be equal to each other, if it's a game that gets shader limited (read: looks fucking awesome) the 6950 will win easily (these games would be STALKER, Crysis, BF:BC2, BF3 and even Metro). The 6950 also beats the 560 Ti in DX11 performance.
The only case where the 560 really gets ahead are games that are either tailored to use CUDA (Civ 5) or have something built in to intentionally not run well on anything other than what they're marketed with (HAWX 1 + 2; even within NVIDIA's own range they perform very inconsistently, only the cards they're marketed for run them brilliantly).
Now as for price, the 560 Ti is a measly 10 EUR cheaper here. That 10 EUR does make a difference in the heavier games; a 6950 will run around 20-25% faster at 1080p in shader limited games (like those mentioned above).
However: If you only play at 1680x1050, the 560 will run better. Because it's less powerful, at that resolution it gets its resources used better; the 6950 gets CPU limited very quickly at 1680x1050.
It all depends on what resolution you play at:
- 1680x1050 or below: 560 Ti
- 1920x1080 or 1920x1200: 6950 1GB - or a reference 2GB which you can unlock to a 6970 (can help you find these if you want - Sapphire even *SHIP* their cards with an unlocked BIOS now)
- Higher than 1920x1200: 6950 2GB
At 1680x1050 a non-Ti 560 or 6870 would also do, however with an eye on the future I still recommend getting the 560 Ti.
Oh and prices in the UK are different from the mainland Slizza, always have been and always will be. Prices here in NL are exactly as Neo said; a 560 Ti will set him back 190 excluding shipping. 6870 at 140, 560 at 150, 560 Ti at 190, 6950 1GB at 200, 6950 2GB at 215.
Edit: not saying the 6870 or 560 wouldn't work btw, I just don't think they're enough of an improvement over your 4850 to be worth it compared to a 560 Ti or 6950. Wait a couple of weeks though, AMD have some press events planned between now and the 16th, expected to announce the new cards 
Have you considered going for used cards? You can pick up a 6950 or 560 Ti for that 150 you wanted to spend - I think this, above all, is the best option for you. Especially if you go for EVGA and Sapphire, warranty will not be an issue.
I would suggest I'd sell you mine, but it'll be a while before I can grab one of the new cards 
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 09:11 Post subject: |
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From a price/performance standpoint the 560 Ti seems slightly better (according to computerbase.de) but if you can spare a few dollars, then the 6950 is obviously the better choice.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 09:22 Post subject: |
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| couleur wrote: | | From a price/performance standpoint the 560 Ti seems slightly better (according to computerbase.de) but if you can spare a few dollars, then the 6950 is obviously the better choice. |
Aggregated benchmarks such as those on CB are good for a general overview, but that's the point I was trying to make above. A 6950 1GB will never drop below a 560's performance at 1080p and up, but if you look at CB it shows the 560 being just 2% slower. Point is though, in the games where there *is* a difference, the difference is way more than that 2%. And to prove my point that a 6950 can deal with shader intensive stuff better: 4xAA the 560 Ti is 2% slower, with 8xAA it's 6% slower - in other words, the more detailed the image, the further the 560 falls behind. Their charts at 1680x1050 won't fully work for Neo, because he's on a relatively old and slow CPU, so he'll hit a CPU wall with a 6950 or better, so I still stand by my point that for that resolution a 560 Ti is a better choice.
Still Neo, look into used cards 
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 10:06 Post subject: |
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Thank you Werelds, that's some valuable information you got there
First of all, 560Ti costs just few euros less than this 6950 2GB, here in Serbia. So, those prices in UK mean nothing to me
Here, 6950 2GB is 210e, while MSI 560Ti TwinFrozr is around 200e.
Now, as for the resolution. My current 22" monitor can only support resolution up to 1680x1050. So, considering that, it seems like 560Ti is a better solution.
And that's the thing i wanted to know. I know my current rig is old and slow, so i thought it's not worth spending 200e on a GPU which is going to run on 60% of it's capabilities. I mean, that GPU power means nothing to me if i can't use it
And yes, i've considered buying a used one, but there are not many out there (here). I'm searching every day, but no luck. Few of those 560Ti were sold for 150 euros, used, around 6 months old, which is a great deal.
Thank you, everyone. I'll continue searching for the used ones. But if i don't find any, i'll try to get a new one as cheap as possible.
Intel Q9550 @ 3.2GHz + CM Hyper 212+ | Gigabyte P35-DS3P | 6GB DDR2 OCZ 800mhz | ASUS GTX560Ti DirectCUII | Samsung SSD 840EVO 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 1TB | OCZ StealthXStream 500W
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Dec 2011 10:30 Post subject: |
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Like I said, wait a few days. AMD have a press event in London today and there's 2 partner meetings (that I know about) this week on wednesday and thursday (MSI & Sapphire respectively). I doubt we'll see a price drop, but we'll probably see some special offers and people starting to sell their cards (as I will if GCN/28nm turns out to be as good as I hope it will be).
Just keep scanning for cards on whatever used hardware sites you have in Serbia. If you find a nice deal on a 6950 or something, don't hesitate to grab that if the price is good; even though the 560 will run slightly better at that low resolution, a 6950 will run just fine. Used cards tend to go up and down, one month you'll find tons of one brand, the next you'll find tons of other ones
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 00:28 Post subject: |
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Well, comparing results when using 1680x1050 (which is my max resolution), they look pretty even. And while 560Ti uses more power, it's a bit more quiet. But i'd say the difference is around 5%, considering all the tests.
So, for me, it goes down to which card has better cooling solution (and also less noisy)..
Now, i have an offer here. This one guy is selling his ASUS 560Ti DCII, just 3 days old, 3 year warranty, for 180 euros.
And, another offer:
Gigabyte 6950 1GB OC, 2.5 year warranty, for 175 euros.
So, both of these cards have excellent cooling solution, and they both cost the same. The only difference is that the seller of 6950 is from my city, and the other one is not.
Now, any suggestion?
Intel Q9550 @ 3.2GHz + CM Hyper 212+ | Gigabyte P35-DS3P | 6GB DDR2 OCZ 800mhz | ASUS GTX560Ti DirectCUII | Samsung SSD 840EVO 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 1TB | OCZ StealthXStream 500W
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 00:42 Post subject: |
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What store are you using to buy?
It pays to shop around.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 00:57 Post subject: |
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He's going for a used card. Both are good choices Neo, I'll have a look for you tomorrow, but I think the DCII is the quieter one. The 6950 at that price is a brilliant deal as well though, nice find!
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 09:07 Post subject: |
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Yeah, the DCII runs cooler and quieter.
Not strange, Hilbert is an amateur who grew bigger than he can handle. He's a good guy and on other subjects he's actually more knowledgeable than he is with GPUs, but I showed you like over a year ago that even between his own reviews there are a shitload of inconsistencies (I think some card magically consumed 100W less in a later review or something stupid like that). I don't know whether it's his testing platform being shit (as in bad prepared Windows images) or just testing inconsistency, but numbers for one card will differ between two separate reviews 9 times out of 10. And that's aside from the fact that he still is biased towards NVIDIA; less now than a couple of years ago, but it's still there (just look at the reviews; for every AMD card he reviews, he reviews 2 NVIDIA cards).
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 14:13 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 14:15 Post subject: |
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Yep, should be fine. Just make sure to not attach anything else to the same chain
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Dec 2011 14:45 Post subject: |
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A fan should be fine or one harddisk, just don't string all your shit onto that single chain
IIRC, your PSU has a dual rail design, so you want to spread it a bit
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