Hopenhagen is a movement, a moment and a chance at a new beginning. The hope that in Copenhagen this December – during the United Nations Climate Change Conference – we can build a better future for our planet and a more sustainable way of life. It is the hope that we can create a global community that will lead our leaders into making the right decisions. The promise that by solving our environmental crisis, we can solve our economic crisis at the same time.
Hopenhagen is change – and that change will be powered by all of us.
saw something on the news about how some guy reckoned that this would work if america and china could sort something out and agree on it. i almost fell off my chair laughing.
that being said.. meh.. i honestly dont believe we have it in ourselves to change until something makes us change. we wont suddenly go HEY LETS ALL BE SELFLESS AND SAVE THE PLANET until there is some massive disaster that actually DOES occur that forces us to behave in a different way because our lives will suddenly be on the line in the here-and-now, rather than in a century or 2... so nah i dont really think anything will change.
i think the best solution and use of our time and resources, is figuring out how to respond WHEN the shit hits the fan... because its going to eventually, no matter what we do...
Last edited by chiv on Tue, 8th Dec 2009 13:11; edited 1 time in total
So far I have witness the stillness of people, and that really annoys me. People acts like sheep: we have food and we're warm so it's good. I say fu*k that! People have power and if we can't change things then we really deserve to die out...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
where as i think 'what will be will be'. we are only deserving of life if we can take it and keep it. i dont think we deserve to die out, but i definately dont think we 'deserve' life on some principle or higher ideal or anything.
also, its no secret we are a selfish self absorbed race. we live for the moment, we think only about whats in it for us and how we can get everything we want and need... sounds horrible yes, and idealistically it would be great if we could all some how magically agree to be a bit more conscious of, and care for, the world around us. it would be great if we were all moral beings. but we arent. we are imperfect beings ('only human' after all ), but i will say two things about this...
1: being this way is what has allowed us to rise above all other species on this planet and take the position of power that we have...
2: being this way is probably the only thing that will save us (as a species) when the shit ultimately hits the fan.
we have our negative traits for a reason... as morally disgusting they may be, theyre what allow us to survive and prosper... good or bad, we do need them and as a result we wont be able to forcibly 'breed' them out of our species all that easily... and i dunno if we even should...
climate change will happen eventually... all we can do is postpone it. is it really worth giving up our survival traits (as morally sickening as they may appear to us whenever its convenient) simply for a short term focused fix, at the risk of potentially screwing ourselves over in the long run?
Power still rests in the hands of the same people responsible for the last two big economic bubbles and they will get to decide how this turns out as well.
After watching some vids and whatnot about this subject one major thing comes to mind. Why do people keep saying "the future of our planet"? Why would the planet care? It'll still be here even if we're wiped out by some natural disaster.
As for the talks and all that other bullshit, it won't change much. We're constantly trying to battle the symptons while we won't touch the cause, prosperity and humanity. There are too many humans on this panet and we are too prosperous. Unless we want to drastically alter our lifestyle (which of course will never happen), I'll just lay back and enjoy the show. Without changing the players (humans), you can't change the game.
After watching some vids and whatnot about this subject one major thing comes to mind. Why do people keep saying "the future of our planet"? Why would the planet care? It'll still be here even if we're wiped out by some natural disaster.
QFT!
Doubt there is someone who hasn't seen it but still:
After watching some vids and whatnot about this subject one major thing comes to mind. Why do people keep saying "the future of our planet"? Why would the planet care? It'll still be here even if we're wiped out by some natural disaster.
The planet cares, trust me. All the natural disasters are just Earth way of saying: gfy I see that people are capable of good and bad thing, sure that makes us who we are, but wouldn't it be better to use the technology to better ourselves? Wouldn't it be good to left some kind of a future for the generations that will come?
I find egocentrism to be very dangerous trait if left unattended...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
I meant that saving the planet is an illusion, the planet doesn't need saving. It's semantics though.
As for using our technology to better ourselves, we have done that and we're still doing it. The problem is, our use of technology and the prosperity it has given us is the main cause of this problem. The sudden change scientists demand is unreasonable and totally unrealistic. We can and we never will do such a thing, that would impede our advancement. We can't simply create new tech from out of nowhere, but advancing ourselves causes the problems. So it's a paradox.
I also watch programs and read articles about some new technological propostions regarding this subject, and boy are most of those retarded. Many of the propositions are undoable, financially impossible and plain stupid. Scientists are part of the problem too. If they keep proposing wacky and financially unrealistic ideas, they''ll never be taken seriously.
I meant that saving the planet is an illusion, the planet doesn't need saving. It's semantics though.
As for using our technology to better ourselves, we have done that and we're still doing it. The problem is, our use of technology and the prosperity it has given us is the main cause of this problem. The sudden change scientists demand is unreasonable and totally unrealistic. We can and we never will do such a thing, that would impede our advancement. We can't simply create new tech from out of nowhere, but advancing ourselves causes the problems. So it's a paradox.
I also watch programs and read articles about some new technological propostions regarding this subject, and boy are most of those retarded. Many of the propositions are undoable, financially impossible and plain stupid. Scientists are part of the problem too. If they keep proposing wacky and financially unrealistic ideas, they''ll never be taken seriously.
Well not all, all the good ones are put aside because of lobbies... And it's not true that advancement means destroying things, such as earth
Look at this: Tesla made his generator run on water - no pollution and still you have electricity (all of his inventions didn't pollute). All he needed was finding on DC by Faraday, and he fiddled with frogs and magnets.
You can have 'clean' technology, it's just that 'dirty' one is not that much profitable...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
What's happening isn't humans fault, its just the planet normal routine (well i can't find a better word).
But yeah believe in what you wanna believe
Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time, but you suggest that the hole in the ozone layer is normal thing? Humans have their hands in pollution, cutting forests down, and that's clearly not good for Earth...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
What's happening isn't humans fault, its just the planet normal routine (well i can't find a better word).
But yeah believe in what you wanna believe
Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time, but you suggest that the hole in the ozone layer is normal thing? Humans have their hands in pollution, cutting forests down, and that's clearly not good for Earth...
No, ofc not. The hole in ozone layer have a human hand. What i wanna say is that all this things related to the Warming or Freezing of the earth is not caused because of the humans (oh well maybe 10%? lol). Like you said ''Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time''. Only that, and sorry about my english! uhahah
''The mind and body must be subjected to extreme stimulus, by means of drugs and music.'' - Hunter S. Thompson
And Earth doesn't care. Because it's a piece of rock and not a sentient being.
One piece of my being says: sure, it's rock filled with some magma and iron core, but seeing that it contains and supports life makes me wonder if it's just a rock... The Earth as a system is too complex to just be labelled as 'rock'...
@ xtralong: don't worry about the language, it's the context that matters
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
One piece of my being says: sure, it's rock filled with some magma and iron core, but seeing that it contains and supports life makes me wonder if it's just a rock... The Earth as a system is too complex to just be labelled as 'rock'...
What's happening isn't humans fault, its just the planet normal routine (well i can't find a better word).
But yeah believe in what you wanna believe
Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time, but you suggest that the hole in the ozone layer is normal thing? Humans have their hands in pollution, cutting forests down, and that's clearly not good for Earth...
No, ofc not. The hole in ozone layer have a human hand. What i wanna say is that all this things related to the Warming or Freezing of the earth is not caused because of the humans (oh well maybe 10%? lol). Like you said ''Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time''. Only that, and sorry about my english! uhahah
One piece of my being says: sure, it's rock filled with some magma and iron core, but seeing that it contains and supports life makes me wonder if it's just a rock... The Earth as a system is too complex to just be labelled as 'rock'...
Damned hippies!
Haha I'm faaaar away from hippie
@ iconized: I thought that it's a scientific believe that the Earth periodically goes through 'hot' and 'cold' times. Last 'cold' time was, what 40000 yrs ago? and now comes the hot times (no pun intended...)
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
One piece of my being says: sure, it's rock filled with some magma and iron core, but seeing that it contains and supports life makes me wonder if it's just a rock... The Earth as a system is too complex to just be labelled as 'rock'...
Damned hippies!
Haha I'm faaaar away from hippie
@ iconized: I thought that it's a scientific believe that the Earth periodically goes through 'hot' and 'cold' times. Last 'cold' time was, what 40000 yrs ago? and now comes the hot times (no pun intended...)
@ iconized: I thought that it's a scientific believe that the Earth periodically goes through 'hot' and 'cold' times. Last 'cold' time was, what 40000 yrs ago? and now comes the hot times (no pun intended...)
Whatever the cycle is, we are intervening with it.
That is why it is so hard to come up with accurate predictions, to many unknowns still.
Anyway the technology to change is there, what is needed is the will to change.
Since US is going to back this up I have more trust in a good outcome now.
The Bush administration never got any further then to declare the Polar Bear an endangered species
.
Anyway the technology to change is there, what is needed is the will to change.
Since US is going to back this up I have more trust in a good outcome now.
The Bush administration never got any further then to declare the Polar Bear an endangered species
Jep I hope that too!
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
The same people that want to "save" the planet decided it was best to rent 1,200 limos and take 140 private jets to the convention???
The people at this convention could give two shits about this most are there because it is the cool thing to do and the rest are there to pad their bank accounts. I have often wondered what happens if the cooling trend continues err or is it a warming trend? Weren't they moaning about a mini ice age in the 70s and they were even talking about pumping CO2 in the atmosphere. These are the same idiots moaning about "climate change" a name that will probably be changed again in a few years to keep up with whatever data they can pump out.
What I am afraid of is people actually putting stock in this crap and sweeping legislation comes though for us to only find out down the road we were COMPLETELY wrong because some douche bag failed presidential candidate wanted to monopolize on something that although is important was not as important as they wanted us to believe.
"the eleven-day conference, including the participants' travel, will create a total of 41,000 tonnes of "carbon dioxide equivalent", equal to the amount produced over the same period by a city the size of Middlesbrough." Oh wait it does not matter they will purchase carbon offset credits.
Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time, but you suggest that the hole in the ozone layer is normal thing? Humans have their hands in pollution, cutting forests down, and that's clearly not good for Earth...
No, ofc not. The hole in ozone layer have a human hand. What i wanna say is that all this things related to the Warming or Freezing of the earth is not caused because of the humans (oh well maybe 10%? lol). Like you said ''Sure planet has it's cycles of freeze and non freeze time''. Only that, and sorry about my english! uhahah
Great video series, you dont really have to see all 40 odd of them to get the message.
Like the guy in the video said, its not a question of are we actually causing this. The more important thing is what are we going to do about it. Just watch the video where he talks about possible outcomes.
Unfortunately I have a feeling this will turn into the same thing as Kyoto. People were up in arms then also, and nothing really happened.
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), but i will say two things about this...
I see that people are capable of good and bad thing, sure that makes us who we are, but wouldn't it be better to use the technology to better ourselves? Wouldn't it be good to left some kind of a future for the generations that will come?
