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 Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 10:34 Post subject: Patch Re-enables PhysX When ATI Card is Present |
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"As you may or may not know, Windows 7 allows two display drivers to be used at once - like in Windows XP. Therefore, it is possible to use an Nvidia card for PhysX and ATI card for graphics rendering. Sadly, since the release of 186 graphics drivers, Nvidia has decided to block this feature anytime a Non-Nvidia GPU is present in the system (Even IGPs). In addition, for some incomprehensible reasons, the latest version of PhysX System Software also prevents PPU cards (such as BFG PPU) from working if a Non-Nvidia GPU is present. The following is Nvidia's explanation behind their actions:
"Physx is an open software standard any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. Nvidia supports GPU accelerated Physx on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes Physx a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons - some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated Physx with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non- NVIDIA GPUs. I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused but I hope you can understand."
As expected, this move by Nvidia generated a lot of criticism from both consumers and even Nvidia's competitors. Luckily, a forum member by the name of GenL has released an experimental beta patch which intercepts disable-PhysX-if-Radeon-is-present-code. So far, according to user comments the patch delivers successful results. At this stage, the patch only works for PhysX GPU rendering and not PPU rendering. However, the developer claims that work is still in progress."
http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-28.html#post82812
Last edited by ManMountain on Mon, 5th Oct 2009 10:59; edited 2 times in total
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 10:35 Post subject: |
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nVidia owned 
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 10:49 Post subject: |
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Hehehehe, so now gfx drivers need to be cracked.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 13:59 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 15:12 Post subject: |
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The CEO as I read a couple days ago, flat out said the main reason was they didn't want to fucking support their competitors.
I wish I could find the article again, I think I sent it to you sabin, check your msn history.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 19:37 Post subject: |
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Now I just need to find a cheap dual PCI-e slot motherboard with socket 775.
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Neon
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 19:51 Post subject: |
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No, it's fun sticking it to nVidia
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 19:59 Post subject: |
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I got an old 8800GT which should be enough to run PhysX forever, so may as well put it to use. Plus it's fun making things work in ways they shouldn't.. and sticking it to Nvidia is a bonus.
And I never cared about floating paper.. I cared about Nvidia being fucking assholes and turning off your property that you paid for just because they said so.
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 20:24 Post subject: |
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i dont get the hate. They are protecting their interests and are nice enough to not protect it too hard. It s the same with the softquad-mods that they never really tried to counter. In my opinion nvidia arent the monsters you try to make em look like here. They also have a good track-record for supplying the linux community with drivers. So why the hate? Fanboy much?
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 20:36 Post subject: |
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Nope, no fanboy here. I used all nvidia cards from my original RIVA TNT 32MB 10 years ago up until my 8800GT I replaced this year.
It's okay to protect your interests, but when that extends to reaching into your computer and disabling your hardware it goes too far.
If you buy a car and then buy another competitors brand for a second car would you be okay with not ever being able to drive your original one? Same principle. If I buy an Nvidia product I should be able to use it.
I would totally understand if the code simply didn't work. That's not something they are obliged to go out of their way to work on, even if it would be a great gesture.
But that's not the issue. The code DOES work. Microsoft was actually cool enough to return multi-driver functionality to the OS expressly for situations like this.. and Nvidia ADDED code to DISABLE products. This isn't just a lack of support, it's an intentional sabotage.
I'm a fan for bang-for-buck, for value and performance. When I need a new card I get the best available. The 4890 was (and still is) a great card for the money, if that makes me a fanboy of ATI for buying my first ATI card ever.. then so be it. If the half dozen Nvida cards collecting dust in my closet is now irrelevant, who cares?
I don't consider myself a fanboy of ATI but I do consider myself very disappointed in Nvidia.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 20:46 Post subject: |
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| Lutzifer wrote: | | i dont get the hate. They are protecting their interests and are nice enough to not protect it too hard. It s the same with the softquad-mods that they never really tried to counter. In my opinion nvidia arent the monsters you try to make em look like here. They also have a good track-record for supplying the linux community with drivers. So why the hate? Fanboy much? |
The hate is this:
Man buys a cards which says on the box "PhysX support".
Man then uses the card.
Man upgrades to a competitor card.
Man puts old card in secondary PCIe slot, remember it said "PhysX support" on the box.
Man gets no "PhysX support".
In fact, such a behavior is liable for lawsuit because nowhere on the box it says that that specific card must be primary rendering device.
If you see no problem here, then you are sticking your head in the sand. You see, PhysX is no longer only used in games, but also in lab projects, and these people are now unable to conduct their tests because of silly company policy. |
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:05 Post subject: |
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well, i havent thought about it like that really. Maybe they ll change their mind when they notice that they are cutting themselves off from customers by doing this.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:13 Post subject: |
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ATI recently released DX11 cards whereas nVidias DX11 cards will take a while to get release. Now would you want your customer to upgrade from a 8800gt with physx to an ati an still keep the physx? or would you try to block as many customers from changing to ati by telling them "ah you can take an ati but you wont have physx anymore!"
Because who whom bought a new ATI would buy the nvidias when they get released?
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:18 Post subject: |
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That's my conspiracy theory as well. Once Nvidia saw ATI gaining market share with the later 4800 cards and knowing that ATI would launch the 5800 months before Nvidia had a 300 ready they had to do something to keep people from jumping ship and getting the best of both worlds.
There's so many old G92 cards out there, and they will make perfect PPUs.. powerful enough to last for years but that means people won't buy new Nvidia cards.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:19 Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter what you want, what matters is what you promised your customers.
Besides, those that will bother with cross-vendor GPUs will know how to use the cracked drivers, so nVidia just shot itself with in the foot with shitloads of bad publicity (like I said, PhysX and CUDA are not used for games only).
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:28 Post subject: |
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yeah, but somebody who is seriously using physx / Cuda for research will have 2 or more nvidia cards in the system and not care about adding an ATi for gaming purposes. I guess this is really a battle for the mid-range sector and about gamers, not researchers
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:29 Post subject: |
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You could easily have people wanting to use Eyefinity for presentations but running demonstrations on CUDA.
It may not be a huge market, but it's there.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:30 Post subject: |
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Actually there was a big debate on one of the hardware forums (I think it was NVNews) and many people brought their examples of suddenly not being able to use CUDA and PhysX. None of them were gaming examples.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Oct 2009 21:32 Post subject: |
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Also, remember, CUDA days are numbered anyway, so in the long run, this has served nothing but bad for nVidia. With OpenCL and DirectCompute, CUDA will no longer be a major player in the GPGPU field.
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2009 01:25 Post subject: |
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wow, my head is spinning here, almost a full page of no flaming, actual debate.....
since when the fuck does that happen?
| rhagz wrote: | Nope, no fanboy here. I used all nvidia cards from my original RIVA TNT 32MB 10 years ago up until my 8800GT I replaced this year.
It's okay to protect your interests, but when that extends to reaching into your computer and disabling your hardware it goes too far.
If you buy a car and then buy another competitors brand for a second car would you be okay with not ever being able to drive your original one? Same principle. If I buy an Nvidia product I should be able to use it.
I would totally understand if the code simply didn't work. That's not something they are obliged to go out of their way to work on, even if it would be a great gesture.
But that's not the issue. The code DOES work. Microsoft was actually cool enough to return multi-driver functionality to the OS expressly for situations like this.. and Nvidia ADDED code to DISABLE products. This isn't just a lack of support, it's an intentional sabotage.
I'm a fan for bang-for-buck, for value and performance. When I need a new card I get the best available. The 4890 was (and still is) a great card for the money, if that makes me a fanboy of ATI for buying my first ATI card ever.. then so be it. If the half dozen Nvida cards collecting dust in my closet is now irrelevant, who cares?
I don't consider myself a fanboy of ATI but I do consider myself very disappointed in Nvidia. |
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
If anything at all, I could see some ATI users buying a lower end card from nvidia to power physx, so all would not be lost to nvidia, they'd have a better foot in the low end GPU market instead of to just those looking to build a better HTPC
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2009 09:13 Post subject: |
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i dont even want anything to do with physx
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2009 22:51 Post subject: |
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| Stefan F wrote: | | i dont even want anything to do with physx |
I would like to sample it for myself, especially as it's becoming more and more prevalent lately. If I could get access via using a low/mid-range nV card, along with my ATi powerhouse for primary rendering, then I'd be content to go out and buy an 8800GT for secondary PhysX support.
At least then I'd have the best of both worlds.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2009 01:39 Post subject: |
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im currenty curious if my 510watt pc power & cooling is going ot be enough to power my 5850 as well as my 8800GT, obviously im going ot have to use a molex adapter to get a 3rd 6pin
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Nov 2009 15:16 Post subject: |
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