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 Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 15:35 Post subject: Lionhead: PC piracy less of a problem than used 360 games. |
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy
"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," declared lead Fable III combat designer Mike West. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it.
"The pirates, whatever you do on whatever system, they will crack it. It might take no time... I think the longest it's taken to happen is two days. Someone will crack it somewhere and there's not much you can do about it.
"It's just a depressing situation we're in that people don't think it's worth spending money on computer games," said West. "What they're doing is making sure there are fewer games coming out in the future and more people out of work, which is a terrible thing.
"Unless you sit down and meet a pirate face to face and have a conversation about what it does, I don't think anything will stop them."
West said that any sales Lionhead make of Fable III on PC this Friday and beyond will be "a bonus".
"For us it's probably a no-lose even with piracy as it is," shrugged West. "But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days."
Most of today's key video game outlets - Game, HMV, Amazon - and even some supermarkets (Tesco) buy and then resell used games from customers. Game publishers have developed a number of initiatives to counter-attack this, the most popular being EA's Online Pass, which bundles a free code with new games that can be redeemed to enable multiplayer or receive downloadable content. Whoever buys the game second hand won't get a free code, which means they'll have to buy a replica online for around $10.
Why do game publishers and developers not like second-hand game sales? Because they don't get any money for the transaction - the shop reaps all the rewards.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 15:45 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 15:47 Post subject: |
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This just in! The sun is hot!
No, really Lionhead? Man, I never would have guessed! Of course the preowned market is damaging companies more than piracy. Piracy != a lost sale. Preowned = a sale where the publisher/developer sees NO money.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 15:48 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 05:02; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 16:10 Post subject: |
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They gr... learn so fast...
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 16:29 Post subject: |
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I don't understand why they bitch about used games these last couple of years. When I buy a game it's mine, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that prohibits it, but fuck em. If I want to sell my games, I will. Should I hand over a percentage of teh money I make from selling games to the publishers? Pricks.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 17:03 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | I don't understand why they bitch about used games these last couple of years. When I buy a game it's mine, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that prohibits it, but fuck em. If I want to sell my games, I will. Should I hand over a percentage of teh money I make from selling games to the publishers? Pricks. |
Sure. I think the real problem for them is that stores sell used games en masse, not you as an individual for the games you've bought.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 17:25 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | I don't understand why they bitch about used games these last couple of years. When I buy a game it's mine, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that prohibits it, but fuck em. If I want to sell my games, I will. Should I hand over a percentage of teh money I make from selling games to the publishers? Pricks. |
YOU aren't the issue, mate, retailers like Gamestop and Game are. Once you've bought your game, it's yours to do with what you will, but places like the aforementioned buy preowned games at a pittance and then sell them close to retail price -- making 100% markup without having to pay the publisher anything.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 17:56 Post subject: |
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And yet they release their console turd game half a year later; why? Piracy. 
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 18:00 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Unless you sit down and meet a pirate face to face and have a conversation about what it does, I don't think anything will stop them." |
Pirate intervention!
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 18:53 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | And yet they release their console turd game half a year later; why? Piracy. |
Nah. Same reason why Alan Wake PC was canceled while there was already an established fanbase of PC gamers anxiously waiting for the title and the team had a PC build up and running: to make teh 360 k00l3r.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 18:55 Post subject: |
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Basically M$ paying to keep what little 360 exclusives they have left.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 19:02 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | I don't understand why they bitch about used games these last couple of years. When I buy a game it's mine, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that prohibits it, but fuck em. If I want to sell my games, I will. Should I hand over a percentage of teh money I make from selling games to the publishers? Pricks. |
YOU aren't the issue, mate, retailers like Gamestop and Game are. Once you've bought your game, it's yours to do with what you will, but places like the aforementioned buy preowned games at a pittance and then sell them close to retail price -- making 100% markup without having to pay the publisher anything. |
I guess all 2nd hand stores should stop doing that too. Selling used clothes and other stuff, shame on them. 
And used car salesmen: Shame on them from profiteering!
P.S.
Stores like that exist, because there is market for people selling used stuff, and it's easier to sell to organized store that to have a long wait until you find a buyer.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 19:06 Post subject: |
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what a fucking dick!
11th "Thou shalt not flash"
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 20:06 Post subject: |
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| peter980 wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | I don't understand why they bitch about used games these last couple of years. When I buy a game it's mine, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that prohibits it, but fuck em. If I want to sell my games, I will. Should I hand over a percentage of teh money I make from selling games to the publishers? Pricks. |
YOU aren't the issue, mate, retailers like Gamestop and Game are. Once you've bought your game, it's yours to do with what you will, but places like the aforementioned buy preowned games at a pittance and then sell them close to retail price -- making 100% markup without having to pay the publisher anything. |
I guess all 2nd hand stores should stop doing that too. Selling used clothes and other stuff, shame on them.
And used car salesmen: Shame on them from profiteering!
P.S.
Stores like that exist, because there is market for people selling used stuff, and it's easier to sell to organized store that to have a long wait until you find a buyer. |
But, again, it's not that that's the issue. As Sabin said, it's the chain stores which buy-in games dirt cheap, then sell them for 30 quid. Of course going to Game or HMV is easier than selling them on ebay or to a friend, but retailers are flooding the market with second hand games which a) cost a lot to the consumer, thereby taking money away from the next "new" sale, and b) don't add anything to the developers for their time and effort.
Publishers and devs didn't complain about the used game sales in the 90s - they were disorganised, and you took your chances on whether the shop you went to would have the games you'd want when you wanted them. Now, it is literally "to order" ( http://gamersvoice.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84:game-to-trial-pre-orders-for-second-hand-game-syet-to-be-released&catid=3:gv-news&Itemid=3 ).
I'm all for second hand games, but not like this. Ebay? CEX? Places where you might be able to pick up Portal 2 but you'd certainly get Mirror's Edge? Excellent. Places where you can order second hand copies a week after release? Not good for the industry.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 20:07 Post subject: |
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juniR
Posts: 1457
Location: Somewhere east of I forget
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 20:26 Post subject: |
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Actually second hand cars is a shit example btw - it's a totally different value system involved in buying and selling. Even clothes and many other second hand items are not resold at the same kind of percentage mark up that games are. Also, cars, clothes and many other items are often cleaned, repaired and refurbished by traders before resale.
| BloodAngel wrote: | | hi... may i have a dirt showdown key please? thank you |
| Newty182 wrote: | | K155-MII-A55 Let me know if it works. |
| Drowning_witch wrote: | | invalid for steam. didn't try origin. |
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 21:57 Post subject: |
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The typical greed and excuses we see in modern times.Demonification of the used game market by the publishers.No surprise there!Hey who wants to pay $40-$60 a pop unless its something really worth it?!Screw their ideas.In the end it will hurt them.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2011 23:25 Post subject: |
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| juniR wrote: | | Actually second hand cars is a shit example btw - it's a totally different value system involved in buying and selling. Even clothes and many other second hand items are not resold at the same kind of percentage mark up that games are. Also, cars, clothes and many other items are often cleaned, repaired and refurbished by traders before resale. |
Disagree. Used cars is same thing. Retail stores can charge whatever they want for used games. As long as customers will pay, they will mark it up. What is this China? Communisim back in force? Selling used stuff has been going on for years.
Shut up developers and actually make good games to begin with that are not overpriced. Maybe then you will see more profits. Stop whining.
RYZEN 5 2600|RADEON 570| |ASRock X370 Killer|DDR4@2800Mhz||Corsair SPEC-05 Case|AOC G2590FX 24.5''144hz 1ms|
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2011 00:22 Post subject: |
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| todd72173 wrote: | | juniR wrote: | | Actually second hand cars is a shit example btw - it's a totally different value system involved in buying and selling. Even clothes and many other second hand items are not resold at the same kind of percentage mark up that games are. Also, cars, clothes and many other items are often cleaned, repaired and refurbished by traders before resale. |
Disagree. Used cars is same thing. Retail stores can charge whatever they want for used games. As long as customers will pay, they will mark it up. What is this China? Communisim back in force? Selling used stuff has been going on for years.
Shut up developers and actually make good games to begin with that are not overpriced. Maybe then you will see more profits. Stop whining. |
Not the point - what customers pay is different to what is good for the industry. If Game sell me Uncharted 2 second hand for 3 pounds less than new, I'd be stupid for not buying it, since it's cheaper than the new copy. That money, however, does not go to Naughty Dog or Sony, but rather to Game. Thus, that sale does not benefit the industry.
I've been playing games for donkey's years - I used to get second hand C64 games for 4 pounds. New ones were 7 pounds. Both new and second hand were the same quality of game, but the second hand ones sold better. No-one cared. Now, though, the issue is that games are so expensive to produce, and the RRP is higher than you think it should be for the quality of game. Yes, a lot of games aren't very good for their price, but then it's what you get for standardised pricing - StarCraft 2 is the same price as Brink which is the same price as Portal 2 which is the same price as Dragon Age 2. At least 1 one of those games should be cheaper than the others, but they all cost a lot of money to produce, which the publisher has to recoup. So they all hit the shelves at the same price (roughly). You say games are overpriced, but what's a fair price? What would be a fair prices for DA:Origins, in development for years? Diablo 3? Half Life Ep 3? They all cost vast sums to make and distribute.
To use your car analogy - if everyone bought second hand cars, then there'd be less cars manufactured, less people employed. Same thing in the games industry.
Finally, people knock DLC - and the worst offenders should be shot - but it's a way to ensure that even second hand sales make money for the developers and producers.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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juniR
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2011 01:24 Post subject: |
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I know how to cure PC gaming of piracy!!!!!!!!11oneonetwotilda
Flood with retarded console ports not even pirates want to touch with a stick, so that mediocre "independent" games, with "retro" feel or riding the success of past great titles, are seen as so revolutionary and amazing, people would feel bad to pirate. 
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juniR
Posts: 1457
Location: Somewhere east of I forget
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2011 02:15 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | | To use your car analogy - if everyone bought second hand cars, then there'd be less cars manufactured, less people employed. Same thing in the games industry. |
That's right. However, cars are a necessity and there has to be some base industry because they wear out and new ones are needed. The car industry has slowed with the global economy being in crisis. So has the games industry. That is the most significant factor in all of this.
The demand for new cars drops because ppl can't afford new ones. They buy used but there's still a demand for new ones cos the oldest ones die. Money still gets through to car manufacturers. They aren't losing half their profits to 2nd hand car dealers and the system is also supported by the fact that there is always demand for new cars. The demand for new cars means there has to be unwanted used cars to go into the market. It's a sustainable system and pretty much symbiotic (until the oil is gone).
The demand for games drops cos ppl have less money and meanwhile stores sell 2nd hand games that directly cuts into demand for new copies. This demand isn't replensihed cos people wanna buy a new copy of the same game (like they do with cars). It's a simple dilution of profits for developers and it is increasing. Also why buy new when you can get the exact same thing 2nd hand, even if it's actually not loads cheaper. Retail stores in the high street already screw the fuck out of the prices and it's always been where the most profit was made. Now they just take the piss cos they can get away with it. If they'd worked with the industry then maybe they have more on the shelves than they do now. They are cutting their own throat cos I think the industry will move completely over to digital download, even on consoles, in time.
Having said all that, I think that games developers have been pretty much like rock stars, and cynical ones at that. They seem to think that after their past success, economically, and the great admiration they've had in the past from the gaming fraternity, the world owes them a living, as well as thinking they can pass anything off as a job well done. There are so many great indie devs giving it a go and existing on humble revenue without so much whining.
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2011 10:52 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | I know how to cure PC gaming of piracy!!!!!!!!11oneonetwotilda
Flood with retarded console ports not even pirates want to touch with a stick, so that mediocre "independent" games, with "retro" feel or riding the success of past great titles, are seen as so revolutionary and amazing, people would feel bad to pirate. |
they already fucked up the PC used sales with they securom activation shit , steam shit and tages shit  ... now you don't own any games no more, only a fucking license that they can at will make invalid [a fine example are EA]  that's why i don't buy PC games no more but only console games , i can play them when ever i like ,do to them what ever i can do and i can complain about the quality of the product
juniR your right ... and to add more they release sometimes a product thats crappier then its original form or another cash in {Fifa , NHL, PIGSKIN/HANDBALL games,GOLf games etc..}
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miragui
Posts: 313
Location: Venezuela
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Sep 2011 14:06 Post subject: |
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I clearly don't get all the fuss about preowned games. It's exactly the same as buying a used car. I see no car manufacturers crying about second hand cars.
i7 3770k, GTX980, 16GB Ram, SSD Raid0, Internet 3rd world shit not worth mentioning
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garus
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Sep 2011 14:31 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:47; edited 1 time in total
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VonMisk
Posts: 9467
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Sep 2011 14:33 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "I can take just one example of Heavy Rain," Quantic Dream co-founder Guillaume de Fondaumiere told GamesIndustry.biz. "We basically sold to date approximately two million units. We know from the Trophy system that probably more than three million people bought this game and played it.
"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming." |
Capitalism, Ho!
The problem is that digital content is still treated as something magical. It's not treated as proper product in the eyes of publishers. You don't buy rights to it by normal money - product barter procedure. You don't own it when you exchange money for it. There is still the EULA which in nowadays becomes bullshit and not proper agreement. And that should change. You should be able to make backup, lend it and resell it as normal product you own after you renounce any rights to it (deactive it or whatever).
And I don't recall to accept any EULA with console games. So...
Last edited by VonMisk on Mon, 12th Sep 2011 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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garus
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Sep 2011 14:33 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:47; edited 1 time in total
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the new PC piracy 
