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 Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 08:38 Post subject: generic shit |
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can we get over the "hero" complex in movies and stories already
FUCK
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 08:47 Post subject: |
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As soon as they make a new He-man live action movie.
BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL!
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 11:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 13:43 Post subject: |
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remember kids, knowing is half the battle.
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 14:46 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 16:00; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 14:59 Post subject: |
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Would be cool to see an anti-hero movie. like the hero of the "evil" side and how he/she prevails in the story and ultimately kills his/her good counterpart.
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
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_SiN_
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Posts: 12108
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 15:55 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 15:58 Post subject: |
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This is why I enjoyed The Watchmen so much. Every 'hero' character is dysfunctional as hell, and the story concludes with millions of people being killed for a tenuous peace which looks set to collapse when Rorschach's journal becomes public knowledge.
There is a reason the villain inevitably fails, no matter how strong they are. We can look back through our own history for evidence of why this is the case. Control through domination breeds defiance, and defiance always leads to the paragons of humanity rising to the challenge.
Tolkien paralleled the world wars with Lord of the Rings, people eventually come together to face evil, which is intrinsically self destructive anyway.
Now, making the distinction between such relative terms as 'good' and 'evil' is something which can only be judged circumstantially. Which is once again why the Watchmen worked so well.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
Last edited by AnimalMother on Tue, 11th Aug 2009 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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_SiN_
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 16:07 Post subject: |
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the dark knight movie kind of shown a somewhat realistic batman, the way the story revolved and ended is something no hero movie has ever done, he's not even shown as a "hero" but as a super rich maniac with hatred for criminals, or at least it's the way it appeared to me.
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_SiN_
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_SiN_
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 16:15 Post subject: |
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| _SiN_ wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | _SiN_ wrote: |
Maybe more like.. Batman dies and the Joker lives? Heh  |
Without Batman to give him focus for his raging psychosis he'd eventually self-destruct in some way. Chaotic evil always burns itself out.
Besides, given the nature of the characters that wouldn't really make sense, The Joker wanted Batman to kill him. |
It was just an example, not literally a wish - I'm sure you know what I mean  |
Well the thing is every hero movie needs to be looked at in context. I know what you're saying, but the same thing would apply to a lot of other hero movies too.
Personally I don't mind the heroes winning, as long as they have to pay a price. That could be allies dying, or personal injury etc. As long as it doesn't seem like they've won and everyone lives happily ever after.
LotR could certainly have done with some more death, Legless or Gimli would have done, maybe one of the hobbits too.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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_SiN_
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 16:23 Post subject: |
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Nearly all of Kubricks film breaks the "generic shit", it always deals with the dark side of men and its creation films such as Dr. Strangelove, The Killing and Clockwork Orange breaks the typical hollywood scenarios
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 17:29 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | _SiN_ wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: |
Without Batman to give him focus for his raging psychosis he'd eventually self-destruct in some way. Chaotic evil always burns itself out.
Besides, given the nature of the characters that wouldn't really make sense, The Joker wanted Batman to kill him. |
It was just an example, not literally a wish - I'm sure you know what I mean |
Well the thing is every hero movie needs to be looked at in context. I know what you're saying, but the same thing would apply to a lot of other hero movies too.
Personally I don't mind the heroes winning, as long as they have to pay a price. That could be allies dying, or personal injury etc. As long as it doesn't seem like they've won and everyone lives happily ever after.
LotR could certainly have done with some more death, Legless or Gimli would have done, maybe one of the hobbits too. |
LotR is somewhat complex and open for interpretation, but the bottom line is, none of them are heroes or villains, they are only "human".
Frodo can never go back to what he was before the Ring found him, and the boat he takes to the undying lands is a metaphor for death on his part.
Gollum/Smeagol who is supposed to be one of the main antagonists is the one who actually destroyed the Ring and achieved what Frodo has failed to do, even if he inadvertently felt into the fire, it was because of his obsessive love and desire for the Ring that he became so overwhelmed and blind to anything else.
And do not forget that the book last chapter is sort of missing, when the hobbits return to the shire they found it vandalized by Orcs, many of their fellow hobbits are death or enslaved, the movie failed to cover this subject, I believe Peter Jackson wanted to portrait a vision of achievement and hope in their quests, rather than the depressing ending in the book.
I haven't read the books in a few years now, but despite of all the changes I still regard the movies to carry the same essence of the books, and they still are my favorite trilogy of all time.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 18:00 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: |
And do not forget that the book last chapter is sort of missing, when the hobbits return to the shire they found it vandalized by Orcs, many of their fellow hobbits are death or enslaved, the movie failed to cover this subject, I believe Peter Jackson wanted to portrait a vision of achievement and hope in their quests, rather than the depressing ending in the book.
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I didn't find the ending of the book 'depressing', because it emphases the difference the journey has made to the hobbits. They rally their fellow hobbits, cast out the bandits and corner Saruman and Wormtongue, resulting in Sarumans death. Although his death was protrayed in a different manner in the extended edition of the film.
There are many characters who are not 'human', both physically and psychologically. Tolkien used the different characters to represent different aspects of the human psyche, and in separating them as he has he makes them distinct from humanity.
Are you going to try and tell me that Aragorn isn't the classical representation of a hero? Overcoming such adversity, including personal temptation, but never letting his courage falter is the epitome of classical heroic behaviour.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 18:20 Post subject: |
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 18:45 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: |
Are you going to try and tell me that Aragorn isn't the classical representation of a hero? Overcoming such adversity, including personal temptation, but never letting his courage falter is the epitome of classical heroic behaviour. |
Aragorn may very well be one of the most stereotypical character of the entire novel, I deeply agree with you on that one, but I believe Tolkien had to create him that way not to shatter his credibility and acceptance as the prophesied king of Gondor.
Imo, the core of the LotR plot is about the hobbits, what they were, what they matured into, what they suffered, lost and endured, and by considering the hobbits alone, we perceive that each one of them were damaged to a degree comparable to the greatness of the achievements they made in their journey, perhaps even greater in the case of Frodo and Sam.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 18:56 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: |
Imo, the core of the LotR plot is about the hobbits, what they were, what they matured into, what they suffered, lost and endured, and by considering the hobbits alone, we perceive that each one of them were damaged to a degree so great as the greatness of what they achieved in their journey. |
Well it's like the journey into adulthood, gaining awareness of the world in all it's vulgar glory. They all physically grew after their journey, especially Merry and Pippin.
Personally I don't considering it being 'damaged', more being enlightened, albeit in a rather emphatic and aggressive way.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Neon
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 20:14 Post subject: |
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an actionmovie where the heroine and villanes are lesbian and share a steemy night that will shape the fortune of all. Now that'd be an interesting flick!
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 21:06 Post subject: |
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| Vikerness wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: |
That's film is just annoying though, when the 'villains' succeed because of the stupidity of the main characters it's not satisfying at all.
Plus, retarded chav's aren't even worthy of being called villains!  |
Agreed, BUT still nice compared to other stupid mofo killer movies
Favorite ending so far - The Mist .. what an awesome movie! Any other shocking movies/endings worth mentioning ? |
I remember that one, I was like: oh so they'll run and all will be well... NOT!  that was a bit of a shocker (neglecting the bad acting)...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Tue, 11th Aug 2009 23:36 Post subject: |
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I didn't find his acting bad... That might just be so, because I like thomas jane as an actor :/
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) and the non-american ending of The Descent - those are the most recent ones that I really liked (even though i didn't like The Descent overall) 
